Harsh Truth: If Intelligent Design is Untestable . . .

[JM2C]

This is a mistake many make outside of science when they assume that when we come out with a hypothesis that we're declaring it to be a fact. "Nebraska Man" was a hypothesis that turned out to be false. So?

I remember this commercial: A rich woman with a faucet ask an architect to design a house base on the faucet. They built a whole man around a pig’s tooth. That was no hypothesis; it was a deliberate misleading by these evolutionists.

 

[JM2C]

If we were to judge your religion the same way you deal with evolutionary biology, then I'm afraid you are in far worse shape. How many fraudulent ministers have there been? I can easily come up with a small handful just off the top of my head. Should we therefore declare Christianity to be a fraud?

I would suggest that it's best that your religious faith should reflect reality, and the fact that the world has been and continues to be involved in an evolutionary process is reality. If your religious beliefs cannot accept that, then I would suggest you look for a different church that actually teaches reality and doesn't expect you to put a set of blinders on.

Just a recommendation.

You have a very good point here. When evolutionists come into a Christian or bible base debate or thread, they do the same thing as I was doing in this thread. I can name a few in this thread alone that I have debated in a Christian or bible base thread. IOW, if you don’t know what you’re talking about, walk away from the thread.

 

[McBell]

What do you need to support the theory of evolution? A missing link!

you reveal you ignorance of evolution.

Please put your strawman away and engage in honest discussion.

 

[McBell]

IOW, if you don’t know what you’re talking about, walk away from the thread.

You would do good to heed your own advice.

Sadly, I doubt you will.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You have a very good point here. When evolutionists come into a Christian or bible base debate or thread, they do the same thing as I was doing in this thread. I can name a few in this thread alone that I have debated in a Christian or bible base thread. IOW, if you don’t know what you’re talking about, walk away from the thread.

There is, however, a difference, since Christians can still accept evolution. The head of the human genome project is a devout and practising Catholic, for example, who regularly tours and gives lectures at various Universities outlining the evidence for evolution and exposing the fraudulent claims made by the creationists about said evidence. Just because a person accepts evolution doesn't mean they aren't religious, or unqualified to talk about religious subjects.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

What facts are you talking about? You guys are still in the theory business. No facts were ever produced by any evolutionists.

Evolution theory is regularly used to predict the mutations of cold viruses year after year. The human genome project has already confirmed human-ape common ancestry through examination of endogenous retroviral inserts and the fusion of human chromosome 2. Further facts have been produced in the fossil record, which shows clear change over time as species diversify in exact accordance with evolutionary predictions.

You may refuse to believe evolutionary theory, but to say "no facts were ever produced by any evolutionist" is nothing short of outright delusion.

 

[JM2C]

Most Jews accept the ToE as long as it posits God as the ultimate cause. Judaism is not a "Hoax", nor is Christianity, but your approach to the ToE is certainly a "Hoax". There simply isnothing in the ToE that goes against a belief that God created all., but for some reason you can't see that rather obvious fact.

I don't know if Moses even existed let alone believe in the Sinai Experience. Maybe he did, but then maybe he didn't. Yes, I do follow the Sabbath. And you are totally wrong about not being able to mix the two, sonny.

If Judaism is not HOAX then it must be true, but you are not sure if Moses existed at all, but you follow the Sabbath anyway.

God gave Moses the 10C in Exodus 20, and in Exodus 20:8 it says “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

But if Moses does not exist at all, according to Metis, then where did you/Metis get the Sabbath?

Is there any rabbi in this thread to clarify Metis statements here?

You see how you contradict yourself with speculative [compromiser] philosophy?

 

[JM2C]

As soon as you can explain grade school biology

You got nothing but your emojis.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/03/fashion/mens-style/should-grown-men-use-emoji.html?_r=0

 

[ImmortalFlame]

If Judaism is not HOAX then it must be true, but you are not sure if Moses existed at all, but you follow the Sabbath anyway.

Wrong. Something is a hoax if it is an attempt at fraud, i.e: an attempt to pass off something you know is untrue or in-genuine as true or genuine. Even if Judaism is completely false, it doesn't make it a "hoax" since the beliefs are still sincerely held. They are not held in an attempt defraud people.

Can you please explain why exactly you feel you cannot reconcile belief in God with acceptance of evolution theory?

 

[JM2C]

You would do good to heed your own advice.


Sadly, I doubt you will.

I'm doing fine here man, thank you. How about you? Let’s hear some of your comments about the subject.

 

[JM2C]

Wrong. Something is a hoax if it is an attempt at fraud, i.e: an attempt to pass off something you know is untrue or in-genuine as true or genuine. Even if Judaism is completely false, it doesn't make it a "hoax" since the beliefs are still sincerely held. They are not held in an attempt defraud people.

You use the word “HOAX” and reference it with the word “untrue”. You are confusing yourself with semantics. Read the sentence again. “If Judaism is not HOAX then it must be true.”

 

[JM2C]

Can you please explain why exactly you feel you cannot reconcile belief in God with acceptance of evolution theory?

How do you reconcile 6,000 years minus 3,200,000 years = -3,194,000 years. Until you explain to me “Why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?” –Darwin, I’m not buying whatever you're selling man.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You use the word “HOAX” and reference it with the word “untrue”. You are confusing yourself with semantics. Read the sentence again. “If Judaism is not HOAX then it must be true.”

I don't think you understand the definition of a hoax. Even if something is untrue, that doesn't make it a hoax - so just because something ISN'T a hoax doesn't mean it's true either. A hoax is a deliberate attempt to mislead with false information. If Judaism is not a hoax, that doesn't mean it's true, it just means it's not a deliberate attempt to mislead. A belief that is false or inaccurate can still be held by those who believe it to be true, so therefore it cannot be said to be a deliberate attempt to mislead.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

How do you reconcile 6,000 years minus 3,200,000 years = -3,194,000 years.

What does that have to do with God and evolution? What exactly is the question?

Until you explain to me “Why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?” –Darwin, I’m not buying whatever you're selling man.

Because fossilisation is extremely rare. Do you think every living organism always leave behind a fossil? What do you think causes fossilisation? Are you aware of the thousands of fossils we already have?

 

[JM2C]

you reveal you ignorance of evolution.
Please put your strawman away and engage in honest discussion.

Not ignorant anymore about evolution, but actually learning a lot from you guys, that none of you can defend it especially from you.

Did you know that Dr. Jack Horner and Dr. Mary Schweitzer, the one who found the T-Rex, that someone offered them $23,000 to test the collagen protein with carbon 14 but they turned it down? Why? You should do a research on this.

 

[JM2C]

What does that have to do with God and evolution? What exactly is the question?

Question? You’re the one asking and I gave the answer.

Because fossilisation is extremely rare. Do you think every living organism always leave behind a fossil? What do you think causes fossilisation? Are you aware of the thousands of fossils we already have?

I’m just relaying a message from Darwin. “Why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?” –Darwin

Thousands? NO! Darwin said: “COUNTLESS NUMBERS”

 

[JM2C]

What does this have to do with anything??

Huh?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Question? You’re the one asking and I gave the answer.

Not really. You just asked me questions.

I’m just relaying a message from Darwin. “Why do we not find them embedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?” –Darwin

And I have answered it (and I think you'll find that Darwin knew the answer already if you actually read his work): fossilisation is very rare. That's the reason we don't find "countless numbers" embedded in the Earth. Your question is answered, and it was answered long before you even asked it by the very man you are quoting.

Thousands? NO! Darwin said: “COUNTLESS NUMBERS”

You asked "Why DON'T WE FIND countless numbers". I answered that. It's because of the "countless numbers" of animals that die, only a very, very small percentage leave behind bones that fossilize. In spite of this, we have still found thousands of fossils. Where is it that you are getting confused?

 

[metis]

If Judaism is not HOAX then it must be true, but you are not sure if Moses existed at all, but you follow the Sabbath anyway.

God gave Moses the 10C in Exodus 20, and in Exodus 20:8 it says “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

But if Moses does not exist at all, according to Metis, then where did you/Metis get the Sabbath?

Is there any rabbi in this thread to clarify Metis statements here?

You see how you contradict yourself with speculative [compromiser] philosophy?

You have no clue what you're talking about. I did not state nor imply that Moses did not exist, only that I don't actually know if he did. This is not exactly rocket science, so it begs the question as to why you didn't understand this basic statement.

I keep the Sabbath mainly because it makes sense for me to do so.

Also, you posit a false dichotomy that looks at only extreme positions, whereas if something is not 100% true, then it must be a "HOAX". Hogwash and illogical. There are myriads of variations found within the Christian scriptures, so does that too make Christianity a "HOAX"?

 

[metis]

What facts are you talking about? You guys are still in the theory business. No facts were ever produced by any evolutionists.

You are simply telling lies.