Has Christianity Been Changed?

[Sunstone]

Here's a post from another thread that it would be off topic to discuss in that thread, but which I wonder if anyone wants to discuss as a seperate thread:

Great post, Jeffery!

I'm old enough that I can remember growing up when the word "Christian" almost never was used to mean a self-righteous, hateful, bigoted person. Instead, it was a term of praise which meant, among many other good things, a person who had taken Jesus's teachings on love to heart and humbly expressed love for their "neighbors". That is, for anyone who came their way. In my small town, we all knew who the real Christians were, and it was even a source of community pride that they were among us. Folks like Michel remind me of that earlier definition of "Christian", but overall, things have sure changed, eh?

A while ago, one of the local papers ran a quote from James Dobson, something he said close the start of his ministry in the 1970's. It went more or less like this, "We're going to take the kid gloves off. We're going to show the world that Christians aren't little old ladies who love everyone and can be run over by everyone. We're going to show them Christians have a fist of iron." That's the best I can remember what he said, and I wish I'd saved the quote, but I didn't. It completely struck me at the time, though, how contemptuous he was of that old defininition of "Christian", and how thirsty he was to prove it wasn't true.

I think since the 1970's, folks like Dobson, Falwell, Robertson, and many, many others have done an excellent job foisting their view of what it means to be a Christian on Americans. But I think Christianity as a whole in America has suffered for it. Jesus's message of love has been replaced with the Ten Commandments and more emphasis on hellfire and heaven than love, and I'm not even sure Jesus himself would approve of that distortion. I've heard young people in Colorado Springs tell me that loving your neighbor means loving other Christians, and even then they don't mean everyone who professes to be Christian, but just the ones they deem to be true Christians. If that's the future of Christian love, then Christian love is becoming spiritually incestuous.

To me, the most vocal "Christian" leaders of today have made a strategic mistake. A religion based on an ideology of "showing the world it has an iron fist" is a religion that is deeply, profoundly spiritually bankrupt.

Comments?

 

[Booko]

I'm old enough that I can remember growing up when the word "Christian" almost never was used to mean a self-righteous, hateful, bigoted person. Instead, it was a term of praise which meant, among many other good things, a person who had taken Jesus's teachings on love to heart and humbly expressed love for their "neighbors". That is, for anyone who came their way.

I remember that as well. If someone was a good Christian man or woman, it meant they were good neighbors, didn't gossip about other people or spread rumors, tried to raise their kids to be polite and respectful, obeyed the law, and helped people in need.

Why wouldn't you want to live around people like that??

To me, the most vocal "Christian" leaders of today have made a strategic mistake. A religion based on an ideology of "showing the world it has an iron fist" is a religion that is deeply, profoundly spiritually bankrupt.

I recall most vividly watching a televised sermon from a local preacher at a megachurch. The topic of his sermon was how to hate with perfect hate. I know the passage he's referring to, but his take on it was creepy to say the least, and after 5 minutes I had to flip off the tv, I couldn't hear any more venom.

His parishoners seem to take his sermons quite seriously, too. It was not too many months after that several of them tried to get me fired from my job, no doubt because I was a heinous member of a dangerous "cult." They tried this with another lady who a Christian, but not their favored variety.

Fortunately, we had just gotten a new Director in from Massasschusetts who had no ties to the Southern religious scene. And also fortunately, I take good notes. I think they got reprimanded, because they sure did get real nice and polite with me afterwards.

I'm looking forward to the time when Christians take back Christianity from these vocal wolves in sheep's clothing. And lest you think no one notices, I appreciate those of you on this forum that stand up for a Gospel that teaches to love your neighbor as yourself and to be honest and fair. My thanks and best to you all -- you know who you are!

 

[Sunstone]

I remember that as well. If someone was a good Christian man or woman, it meant they were good neighbors, didn't gossip about other people or spread rumors, tried to raise their kids to be polite and respectful, obeyed the law, and helped people in need.

I can also recall, now that I've thought about it a bit more, the phrase, so and so is "a real Christian", to mean that person possessed to an admirable degree such virtues as patience, charity, love, kindness, generosity, and humility. My employer while I was in high school was often called "a true Christian" and he fit that and the other things Booko has mentioned about the old definition of Christian.

Nowadays, I think "a real Christian" in Colorado Springs at least means little more than someone who joins what someone else considers the right sect, denomination, or church.

Like Booko, I'm grateful to the many, many people on this board who stand up for a Gospel that teaches to love.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Like Booko, I'm grateful to the many, many people on this board who stand up for a Gospel that teaches to love.

Very, very true.

 

[SunMessenger]

I remember that as well. If someone was a good Christian man or woman, it meant they were good neighbors, didn't gossip about other people or spread rumors, tried to raise their kids to be polite and respectful, obeyed the law, and helped people in need.

Why wouldn't you want to live around people like that??

I think it still means all of those things wrapped into one tremendous word. Love. Thank You...

 

[Booko]

Nowadays, I think "a real Christian" in Colorado Springs at least means little more than someone who joins what someone else considers the right sect, denomination, or church.

I worked with a doctor at the National Cancer Institute years ago, and he definitely fit the bill of a good Christian. He was really caring, patient, sought to improve his knowledge so he could help others, just all around a good guy. The cool thing is, he never mentioned his religion...he really didn't have to. You just knew.

 

[Bishka]

Iron-fist? Since when did that mean Christian? Strange......

 

[jeffrey]

Iron-fist? Since when did that mean Christian? Strange......

I don.t think so. I see exactly what Phil is saying. Your Christian leaders have changed. Look at Robert H. Schuller. That was a typical Christian leader type in the 70's and 80's. Preached love. Now you have preachers on TV that preach hate and donations. Pressing their views more and more into politics. Claiming to be from God..

 

[michel]

I don.t think so. I see exactly what Phil is saying. Your Christian leaders have changed. Look at Robert H. Schuller. That was a typical Christian leader type in the 70's and 80's. Preached love. Now you have preachers on TV that preach hate and donations. Pressing their views more and more into politics. Claiming to be from God..

Oh dear; your poor Americans! "Christian" I think means exactly what it has always meant here in England. Of course there is a difference between a "Christian" and a "Good Christian" (which is a sad reflection on the fact that the former is one who calls hi/herself that, while the latter is one who 'walks the walk'. Thinking about it, it is a sad reflection that there has to be a distinction between the two.

 

[Krie]

I think that the meaning of "Christian" has not changed but the reputation is being tainted

 

[Booko]

I don.t think so. I see exactly what Phil is saying. Your Christian leaders have changed. Look at Robert H. Schuller. That was a typical Christian leader type in the 70's and 80's. Preached love. Now you have preachers on TV that preach hate and donations. Pressing their views more and more into politics. Claiming to be from God..

I've often said that the reason we don't have a theocracy here like in some places in the world is only because of our strong traditions of religious freedom in the US. There are definitely elements that want one. And you're right, they were just not there in the 60s and 70s.

I guess it's like the Middle East in a way. It's more of a drive for political power than just a religious thing.

 

[Sunstone]

Oh dear; your poor Americans! "Christian" I think means exactly what it has always meant here in England. Of course there is a difference between a "Christian" and a "Good Christian" (which is a sad reflection on the fact that the former is one who calls hi/herself that, while the latter is one who 'walks the walk'. Thinking about it, it is a sad reflection that there has to be a distinction between the two.

I hope you folks never go through what we're going through on this side of the pond. The long term, sustained effort by certain elites to redefine Christian is paying off for them in lots of ways, but it's damaging the spirituality of Christianity, IMO, and has, among other things, shifted the focus of many people from the NT to the OT, from a God of love and salvation to a God of wrath and vengence, from the spirit of the law to the letter of the law, and from inclusiveness to exclusiveness. In so many ways it has not benefited us, but perhaps it has, as Yeats predicted, resulted in a Christianity in which "the best lack all conviction, while the worse are full of passionate intensity."

 

[SunMessenger]

I hope you folks never go through what we're going through on this side of the pond. The long term, sustained effort by certain elites to redefine Christian is paying off for them in lots of ways, but it's damaging the spirituality of Christianity, IMO, and has, among other things, shifted the focus of many people from the NT to the OT, from a God of love and salvation to a God of wrath and vengence, from the spirit of the law to the letter of the law, and from inclusiveness to exclusiveness. In so many ways it has not benefited us, but perhaps it has, as Yeats predicted, resulted in a Christianity in which "the best lack all conviction, while the worse are full of passionate intensity."

We really need to give ourselves a bit more credit than that. America has not come this far being all that gullible. There are some very profound Christians out there who are smart enough to make the right decisions. We even have remote controls to change the channel on television if someone annoys us . Keeping it simple is the best test for whether or not someones heart is true. Those who lie and deceive have a great propensity to weave a very tangled web. Those who attempt to be true and forthright tend to make a periodic misstatement that is usually corrected. Give Us more credit . When times are difficult, as they are now, we can get through if we keep focused and remember that this will pass... Thank You...

 

[Sunstone]

We really need to give ourselves a bit more credit than that. America has not come this far being all that gullible. There are some very profound Christians out there who are smart enough to make the right decisions. We even have remote controls to change the channel on television if someone annoys us . Keeping it simple is the best test for whether or not someones heart is true. Those who lie and deceive have a great propensity to weave a very tangled web. Those who attempt to be true and forthright tend to make a periodic misstatement that is usually corrected. Give Us more credit . When times are difficult, as they are now, we can get through if we keep focused and remember that this will pass... Thank You...

I agree "this too shall pass". America has indeed gone through worse than this and come out of it. But that doesn't mean, to my mind, that there is no need to oppose these people and their redefinition of Christianity.

 

[Jerrell]

Church Doctrine has been changed. Tradition has Changed. But Chrsitnaity has not...I'll answer later i'm at school..

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Great thread, Sunstone.




I'm still a young'un, so I don't remember too well of the time when the term "Christian" was a real compliment. But, I vaguely remember when the terms "Christian" and "true Christian" found their split in our language and our culture.



Nowadays, it's very rare to hear the word "Christian" without any underlying hostility.




Peace,
Mystic

 

[Mister_T]

while ago, one of the local papers ran a quote from James Dobson, something he said close the start of his ministry in the 1970's. It went more or less like this, "We're going to take the kid gloves off. We're going to show the world that Christians aren't little old ladies who love everyone and can be run over by everyone. We're going to show them Christians have a fist of iron." That's the best I can remember what he said, and I wish I'd saved the quote, but I didn't. It completely struck me at the time, though, how contemptuous he was of that old defininition of "Christian", and how thirsty he was to prove it wasn't true

That doesn't sound very Christian to me. Whatever happened to turn the other cheek? I wish I could remeber the passage but Jesus said something like "If you see your enemy deserted on the road feed him, clothe him and give him your mule" (I know that's not exact)and "If a theif steals your tunic give him your cloak as well" Western Christianity has lost sight of the true meaning of what it is to be a Christian.

 

[Unedited]

Christianity (both what it is, and what it means) has changed in the last few decades, as it has changed since it began. Today's Christians may have gotten the reputation of being bigots, but they don't have a reputation of burning people at the stakes, so things are better than they could be.

 

[Jerrell]

Christianity is being Christ like. The Tradition held by those who practice it may vary but being christian has always been the same, look at it, it's in the Bible. If you beleive in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you're Christian, how you further do things is up to you, but Christianity is simply living as Jesus would wish you to live.

 

[fromthe heart]

Oh dear; your poor Americans! "Christian" I think means exactly what it has always meant here in England. Of course there is a difference between a "Christian" and a "Good Christian" (which is a sad reflection on the fact that the former is one who calls hi/herself that, while the latter is one who 'walks the walk'. Thinking about it, it is a sad reflection that there has to be a distinction between the two.

We are only as poor as we allow...lol

I feel what you said still rings true as well...there are Christians and then there are 'good' Christians...Perhaps the problem comes into play because Christians have gotten to the point where they accept God into their life and left it at that...Christians who just accept Christ as their personal savior and don't grow into what God had intended for them to be seem to have a bad disposition and that makes others think, "Well if THAT'S Christianity; I Don't want it!!!" when in fact they aren't getting a clear view of just what a true Christian IS...they are the person who reaches out with their heart to someone in need out of pure love for others;not just grunt and say "well you get what you deserve"...they treat others as if they matter because no matter what a persons faults they really DO matter or they wouldn't be here on this earth; Not just turn a blind eye to others as if their souls don't matter as long as YOU get it right...despite the most evil person you have ever met who claims to be 'Christian' perhaps their thinking is just not scriptural and their calling themselves Christian is just out of error...they may not even realize their error because they haven't gotten into the Word of God to see what they should do...be...feel...say...Perhaps they are taught wrong in their church and it's not of their own doing that they have believed a lie....You truly KNOW a Christian by their fruits!! they aren't out to hurt anyone for any reason...they don't act out of spite...they show their fruits in how they behave...Now I'm not saying the others who say they are Christians that fall short of this picture aren't what they say but perhaps they just haven't grown scripturally enough for their works to glow or perhaps they just haven't gotten the right information yet to know the difference. There is so much more because human behavior is so self induldged in this day that no one can see too far beyond their own pat on the back. Everything to BE a GOOD Christian or ACT like a GOOD Christian is in the books of the Bible.

Just my personal views.