Has God given up the right to punish through giving free will? If so, there is no hell.

[Greatest I am]

Do you personally oppose the 10 commandments, and if so, which ones? Please consider the last 6 commandments as universal truth, applicable to our fellow man.

Exodus 20
The Ten Commandments

20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying,
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before [1] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands [2] of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder. [3]
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.”
18 Now when all the people saw the thunder and the flashes of lightning and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking, the people were afraid [4] and trembled, and they stood far off 19 and said to Moses, “You speak to us, and we will listen; but do not let God speak to us, lest we die.” 20 Moses said to the people, “Do not fear, for God has come to test you, that the fear of him may be before you, that you may not sin.” 21 The people stood far off, while Moses drew near to the thick darkness where God was.

I oppose and have gone against some.
I, depending on circumstance would break most but I am against creating a victim by my actions.
God has even murdered. Note the genocide in the days of Noah.
Should a law maker that breaks his own laws be trusted or followed?
No.
I follow a better God than the Bible God.

Regards
DL

 

[Enoch07]

I oppose and have gone against some.
I, depending on circumstance would break most but I am against creating a victim by my actions.
God has even murdered. Note the genocide in the days of Noah.
Should a law maker that breaks his own laws be trusted or followed?
No.
I follow a better God than the Bible God.

Regards
DL

You are your own victim Greatest. God has the right to take our lives when He sees fit. He created us and He can take us out whenever He pleases. You think you are better than God. Which reminds me of certain someone who also thought he was better than God. This "Better to rule in Hell, than to serve in Heaven" mentality is the root of all man kinds problems since the beginning of time.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

It is said that God gave man free will.

Its always fun to see what Albert Einstein has to say on any subject.



In 1932 Einstein wrote his "Credo". This is what he says about free will.

I do not believe in free will. Schopenhauer's words: 'Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills,' accompany me in all situations throughout my life and reconcile me with the actions of others, even if they are rather painful to me. This awareness of the lack of free will keeps me from taking myself and my fellow men too seriously as acting and deciding individuals, and from losing my temper.

 

[Greatest I am]

You are your own victim Greatest. God has the right to take our lives when He sees fit. He created us and He can take us out whenever He pleases. You think you are better than God. Which reminds me of certain someone who also thought he was better than God. This "Better to rule in Hell, than to serve in Heaven" mentality is the root of all man kinds problems since the beginning of time.

Beats having your Stockholm syndrome.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Its always fun to see what Albert Einstein has to say on any subject.



In 1932 Einstein wrote his "Credo". This is what he says about free will.

I do not believe in free will. Schopenhauer's words: 'Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills,' accompany me in all situations throughout my life and reconcile me with the actions of others, even if they are rather painful to me. This awareness of the lack of free will keeps me from taking myself and my fellow men too seriously as acting and deciding individuals, and from losing my temper.

If he has no control, that is his problem. It does not take away our free will.
Who made you post? You or an outside force?

Regards
DL

 

[Enoch07]

Beats having your Stockholm syndrome.

Regards
DL

That is just a cop out. In order to have Stockholm I would have had to fear God at some point. I just worked 12 hours in the rain/storms throughout the night. Lightning striking 50ft from me as I cranked metal valves and stood in 4 inches of water. If God wanted to take me He he could have. I have no fear of God, nor would I have a reason to. The only people that fear God is ones that do not understand Him.

 

[Falvlun]

If he has no control, that is his problem. It does not take away our free will.
Who made you post? You or an outside force?

Regards
DL

There is something to be said for the idea that simple cause and effect constrains our choices and even the way that we will choose.

 

[Greatest I am]

That is just a cop out. In order to have Stockholm I would have had to fear God at some point. I just worked 12 hours in the rain/storms throughout the night. Lightning striking 50ft from me as I cranked metal valves and stood in 4 inches of water. If God wanted to take me He he could have. I have no fear of God, nor would I have a reason to. The only people that fear God is ones that do not understand Him.

Then you understand why he drowned innocent babies and children and women who carried the unborn. Explain please. But only if you do not say that babies are evil and are better off dead. That would just be a stupid comment.

You might explain about all those evil animals as well.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

There is something to be said for the idea that simple cause and effect constrains our choices and even the way that we will choose.

Sure. I noticed though you end with, we will chose.

:clap

You do get it.

Regards
DL

 

[Falvlun]

Sure. I noticed though you end with, we will chose.

:clap

You do get it.

Regards
DL

Well, to be honest, that's not quite what I was saying.

Our universe appears to be fairly deterministic: for every action, there is a reaction, for every cause, there is an effect. This universe of cause and effect might funnel us towards a specific choice; in effect, we could not make any other choice, because every condition in the universe pointed us towards making that choice.

I have not made up my mind yet whether I believe choice to exist or not. Logically, I can't escape the idea that choice cannot exist.

But, as a human, I cannot see all of the causes that funnel me towards making a specific choice, so the illusion of free-will is well established.

I suppose one could think of the cause-and-effect mechanism as creating an environment of probabilities rather than inevitability. Basically, certain "causes" would have greater inertia towards a specific "effect". These would be instances where it would be very, very hard to make a choice other than that which we are being funneled towards; free-will is unlikely, though not impossible. Other "causes" might have lesser inertia towards a specific "effect", thus providing us with greater freedom to choose (though there would still be a strong pull towards the "effect").

 

[Greatest I am]

Well, to be honest, that's not quite what I was saying.

Our universe appears to be fairly deterministic: for every action, there is a reaction, for every cause, there is an effect. This universe of cause and effect might funnel us towards a specific choice; in effect, we could not make any other choice, because every condition in the universe pointed us towards making that choice.

I have not made up my mind yet whether I believe choice to exist or not. Logically, I can't escape the idea that choice cannot exist.

But, as a human, I cannot see all of the causes that funnel me towards making a specific choice, so the illusion of free-will is well established.

I suppose one could think of the cause-and-effect mechanism as creating an environment of probabilities rather than inevitability. Basically, certain "causes" would have greater inertia towards a specific "effect". These would be instances where it would be very, very hard to make a choice other than that which we are being funneled towards; free-will is unlikely, though not impossible. Other "causes" might have lesser inertia towards a specific "effect", thus providing us with greater freedom to choose (though there would still be a strong pull towards the "effect").

Sure again but "Logically, I can't escape the idea that choice cannot exist. "
Yet logically you do escape every time you reach for your key board. Like now.
Will you chose to have diner tonight?

You talk yourself into a corner then say that the corner is not there. LOL.

Regards
DL

 

[Enoch07]

Then you understand why he drowned innocent babies and children and women who carried the unborn. Explain please. But only if you do not say that babies are evil and are better off dead. That would just be a stupid comment.

You might explain about all those evil animals as well.

Regards
DL

God determines who is innocent or not. Not us.

 

[Falvlun]

Sure again but "Logically, I can't escape the idea that choice cannot exist. "
Yet logically you do escape every time you reach for your key board. Like now.

I am reaching for the keyboard because my brain is wired in such a way to enjoy debate. You replied to a post of mine, supplying a reason to post. You could go through my life, back to the fact that I have a minor in philosophy, the fact that I had a very religious upbringing, the fact that I crashed my bike into a tree when I was 6, etc: the point being that all of my life's experiences and the current environment I find myself now has geared me towards replying to your post.

This is inescapable truth.

We have two interpretations we can use when regarding this truth: 1) All our actions are completely determined by our genetics, experiences, and environment or 2) Our genetics, experiences and environment heavily predisposes us to making certain choices (and in some, maybe most, cases so heavily that it would be nearly impossible to choose differently), but there is still a chance we can choose something else.

I haven't decided which of the two options I believe. Obviously, I consider option 2 more palatable, but preference doesn't indicate truth.

 

[Greatest I am]

I am reaching for the keyboard because my brain is wired in such a way to enjoy debate. You replied to a post of mine, supplying a reason to post. You could go through my life, back to the fact that I have a minor in philosophy, the fact that I had a very religious upbringing, the fact that I crashed my bike into a tree when I was 6, etc: the point being that all of my life's experiences and the current environment I find myself now has geared me towards replying to your post.

This is inescapable truth.

We have two interpretations we can use when regarding this truth: 1) All our actions are completely determined by our genetics, experiences, and environment or 2) Our genetics, experiences and environment heavily predisposes us to making certain choices (and in some, maybe most, cases so heavily that it would be nearly impossible to choose differently), but there is still a chance we can choose something else.

I haven't decided which of the two options I believe. Obviously, I consider option 2 more palatable, but preference doesn't indicate truth.

Whatever the reason, you still chose to.
There is nothing that you chose to do, that you can look back and say, I did not chose to do that.

Regards
DL