Has Obama crossed the line? Abuse of presidential powers through executive actions.

[Reverend Rick]

We can point the finger this way and that, but in the end we all lose over time.

The American people want both sides to work together.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

We can point the finger this way and that, but in the end we all lose over time.

The American people want both sides to work together.

Sure they do....but they also realize that nothing is getting done. There's a party in the House that's fine with that. Their partners in the Senate are on board as well. Everything the republicans are preaching to their constituents "now" about education, job training, adding jobs....etc..etc... was in the President's Jobs bill they're afraid to bring up for debate and vote. Doing so would mean hundreds of thousands of new jobs......They keep asking the President ("Where's the jobs") but they have put nothing on the table themselves....


This is what they're offering......mere talking points with no substance.
GOP Plan For Economic Growth & Jobs - GOP.gov


In stark contrast to this....
FY2014 Democratic Budget Summary and Tables | House Budget Committee Democrats


To do you one better and to be fair try this one....

Eric Cantor || Majority Leader

I'm going to sum it up for you....role back regulations, lower taxes on businesses (many of which aren't even paying taxes now), instituting another reckless trade deal. We've been there before. It's been done and it doesn't work.

:sad:

 

[Tarheeler]

The recess appointment by Obama is clearly suspect. Already the Supreme Court has called him out on it.

It could very well backfire on the Senate rather than the President. Recess appointments are perfectly legal, and, to date, Obama has made fewer of them than his recent predecessors of either party. Their use has been upheld in Supreme Court cases throughout the history of the Republic. The question is whether or not the pro forma session constitute a valid procedure, or if they themselves are a violation of Constitutional mandate regarding the operation of the legislative branch. Obama is maintaining that there are, in fact, intrasession recesses (which the appeals court has determined are subject to recess appointments, see Evans v. Stephens) while the Noel Canning (and his Republican comrades) is asserting that they are not recesses at all. And this is a clear case of what one party does coming back to bite them on the ***: The pro forma session was first used by the Democrats to keep Bush from making recess appointments.

 

[Revoltingest]

....if you're familiar with them, you quickly come to the conclusion not much is in them to squawk about.

That's where we're doomed to differ because of fundamentally different expectations about how gov should run.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

That's where we're doomed to differ because of fundamentally different expectations about how gov should run.

No we don't and no it isn't.

If his EO are deemed unconstitutional I would agree with you.....but my gosh..there are 168 EOs and I've read them all over the years since the "right" has been citing this president as a "dictator", "king", "ruling by fiat"...etc..etc...and in examining the EOs there's really nothing there that jumps out to warrant these characterizations. You on the other hand heard from people from somewhere that the supposed substance of his EOs suggest he's overstepping his authority yet out of this whole thread we "potentially" have one example....that at this point seems to be something all presidents have done. But if the Administration is found to be in violation over "Recess Appointments" and the manner in which they used to put people in those needed positions...I wouldn't have a problem with their decision.

 

[Revoltingest]

You on the other hand heard from people from somewhere that the supposed substance of his EOs suggest he's overstepping his authority yet out of this whole thread we "potentially" have one example....that at this point seems to be something all presidents have done.

Herein lies the futility of discussing the individual orders.
You don't accept that any are unconstitutional. And further
you justify them by saying all presidents to it. We just have
very different interpretations on what is constitutional & what isn't.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Herein lies the futility of discussing the individual orders.
You don't accept that any are unconstitutional. And further
you justify them by saying all presidents to it. We just have
very different interpretations on what is constitutional & what isn't.

I have been looking at them from a constitutional perspective. You haven't lead the argument with any clear examples that any of the 168 are potentially unconstitutional. "Nowhere Man" brought up the "one". The others you cited that you heard from others were non issues...even constitutionally. So we can all agree that the sheer number of EOs signed doesn't make him overstepping his authority. The only question in the minds of those who think he has is...what are the EO that he's signed suggest he's overstepping his authority. I've only seen "one" potential order. So you and I might have different interpretations as to what is unconstitutional but it would help the discussion along if we had evidence of the 168 you felt were potentially unconstitutional. So far you've said ("The real issue is the legality & effect of the orders given.")....which is why I was asking which ones were legally suspect to you.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have been looking at them from a constitutional perspective. You haven't lead the argument with any clear examples that any of the 168 are potentially unconstitutional. "Nowhere Man" brought up the "one". The others you cited that you heard from others were non issues...even constitutionally. So we can all agree that the sheer number of EOs signed doesn't make him overstepping his authority. The only question in the minds of those who think he has is...what are the EO that he's signed suggest he's overstepping his authority. I've only seen "one" potential order. So you and I might have different interpretations as to what is unconstitutional but it would help the discussion along if we had evidence of the 168 you felt were potentially unconstitutional. So far you've said ("The real issue is the legality & effect of the orders given.")....which is why I was asking which ones were legally suspect to you.

I know.
But it just portends too much tedium & too little discussion potential to spend a lotta effort detailing.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I know.
But it just portends too much tedium & too little discussion potential to spend a lotta effort detailing.

OK.....

 

[esmith]

Sure they do....but they also realize that nothing is getting done. There's a party in the House that's fine with that. Their partners in the Senate are on board as well. Everything the republicans are preaching to their constituents "now" about education, job training, adding jobs....etc..etc... was in the President's Jobs bill they're afraid to bring up for debate and vote. Doing so would mean hundreds of thousands of new jobs......They keep asking the President ("Where's the jobs") but they have put nothing on the table themselves....

You and those that support Obama have your opinion and expect everyone to agree with it. Yet if someone provides a rebuttal to the opinion they say that the material is right wing propaganda and is wrong. It may be only wrong to those that support what Obama is purposing but right to others. Take for instance the following rebuttal to Obama's Job Plan: ARTICLE I am sure that there will be disagreement with the material; However, it is valid if you disagree with the general concepts that Obama thinks is right.

This is what they're offering......mere talking points with no substance.
GOP Plan For Economic Growth & Jobs - GOP.gov

In stark contrast to this....
FY2014 Democratic Budget Summary and Tables | House Budget Committee Democrats

When you are designing something you have to have a concept to start with and from that concept determine how each functioning part will affect the whole. Without a careful step by step process of building each functioning part you get a product that does not work and has to be modified and patched, the result is a clunky product. A good example of this is Obamacare. I see in the GOP Plan a concept that has to be addressed step by step and each individual section examined and a determination on what is causing the problem and the best economical plan to correct the problems. In contrast the Democratic plan seems to throw money at problems without examining the problems and how to specifically address each issue.

To do you one better and to be fair try this one....

Eric Cantor || Majority Leader

I'm going to sum it up for you....role back regulations, lower taxes on businesses (many of which aren't even paying taxes now), instituting another reckless trade deal. We've been there before. It's been done and it doesn't work.:sad:

Again we see a concept in Cantor's proposal. You disagree with it as you disagree with anything that does not conform to your way of thinking. Hopefully the majority of the country will agree with some of the proposals that are being put forth by those opposed to the mindset of the current Democratic party.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

You and those that support Obama have your opinion and expect everyone to agree with it. Yet if someone provides a rebuttal to the opinion they say that the material is right wing propaganda and is wrong.

But this isn't unusual from either side of the isle we stand on. I never said or necessarily want you to agree with me. I'm not that naive to think that anything I say as a Progressive will convince you so I don't try. I simply enjoy debate. Sure I belive my position is pretty much where the American people are (for the most part) but I'm always eager to hear opinions from the other side.

It may be only wrong to those that support what Obama is purposing but right to others. Take for instance the following rebuttal to Obama's Job Plan: ARTICLE I am sure that there will be disagreement with the material; However, it is valid if you disagree with the general concepts that Obama thinks is right.

I disagree with how bias the Hoover institute is in general.

CBO confirms President Obama's jobs bill would create jobs, lower deficit - Los Angeles Democrat | Examiner.com

Would full passage of Obama

When you are designing something you have to have a concept to start with and from that concept determine how each functioning part will affect the whole. Without a careful step by step process of building each functioning part you get a product that does not work and has to be modified and patched, the result is a clunky product. A good example of this is Obamacare.

Considering I'm a Network Engineer extremely familiar with network design, topology and implementation I don't need the lecture. In my long career I've headed and worked on many systems integration projects...and making them talk to each other isn't always an exact science. The ACA, like RomneyCare as well as Medicare D had similar roll-out issues. The striking difference here is while many Dems didn't support the Part D bill they supported the roll-out even with all its glitches (many similar to the ACA).

I see in the GOP Plan a concept that has to be addressed step by step and each individual section examined and a determination on what is causing the problem and the best economical plan to correct the problems. In contrast the Democratic plan seems to throw money at problems without examining the problems and how to specifically address each issue.

Like focusing on education which Dems and Pubs support. Now in this election year Pubs are singing the same tune Dems have been singing for quite some time now such as education, job training and infrastructure investment. So I see something quite the opposite as to what you're seeing.

Again we see a concept in Cantor's proposal.

A concept of proven failure over and over again. Many of his ideas, with a little tweaking, could work.

You disagree with it as you disagree with anything that does not conform to your way of thinking.

As do you......

Hopefully the majority of the country will agree with some of the proposals that are being put forth by those opposed to the mindset of the current Democratic party.

But they don't.....not in their entirety. America agrees that we should be focused on Job Creation and not Obamacare, Abortion, Contraception and Voter ID. America agrees on early childhood education, job training and raising the minimum wage. This agreement spans from right to left to independents alike.