Has the religious civil war started in the Middle East?

[NoX]

As @Flankerl so apropriatey said: Please troll somewhere else.

You will be warned too. Forum staff is so sensitive about this issue, I admire them they have never missed me about this issue and I have been warned 6 times just in a few days, they are doing their jobs well. This is why I said you should not use personal comments about members, I didnt want you to be warned. I have even been warned because I said "Nahhh, I dont believe in this "crazy pilot" stories." for the terorized French plane. I dont know why but they are so sensitive and cute people. Please be careful.

 

[ShivaFan]

I will use two faces as the archetypes.

One is the haggard old face of U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry.
The other is the young, deer in the headlight, face of a youthful teen of the ISIS cult who just shot a family man in the head because he is a Shia or a Christian.

The latter is like a wanna’ be State, a Cupid of popular culture, a small cherub boy with a sheath of arrows slung on his arms as the darts to deliver, not love in this case by his bow, but death. There is some eerie similar undertones to the haggard Cupid Kerry, a sense of theabout the unfortunate side of his work but something shocking about it.

The deer in the head lights Cupid is almost “fair” and “lovely”, the image of youth and mischief, but mental vacuum as well. He only knows how to “play”. He toys with the human heart, mocking his victims with a smile, like the Cupid of old, as he kills. His work is joyous to him because he is “allowed to play”, and those who gaze upon his childlike persona know that if he holds the whim to, will without a second thought make them a victim to his “otherworldly power” which is really just bare metal.

This Cupid contradicts the image of haggard Cupid called Kerry. This Eros is not a face of beauty, he is “battered” with wings “patchy” and “askew”. He is neither playful nor pleased with his power anymore as the “new” Cupid is. His power has made him a “slave” to the longing of “power” that he doesn’t really want to bother with anymore. These two Cupids vary immensely not only in their image but in their attitudes. The Killer Eros has skin as smooth and unblemished, that of a child’s, as well as the attitude to match his skin, and just like a child he uses his power to amuse himself. The Haggard Eros holds the appearance of those you may see living in a post office. He is worn in his looks and his attitude to match. He does not see his power as the Killer Eros does, for his power is a chain that ties him to the desires of mankind.

Humanity’s response to them also differ. In the face of this shocking killer Cupid, humanity does not beckon Cupid, they avoid this creature, while in the Haggard Face, humanity with its many needs call for the Haggard Eros. The difference lies deeper than how they appear to the world because the underlying cause, the connotations of their difference is choice. The Killer Cupid has the choice to just kill any he decides and never even knows he will soon be killed too, and it is humanity who is left a slave to his mischief. The Haggard Eros does not truly have control of his power and is left in servitude, with humanity as his ruler. These Cupids are the same in that they show power as the medium between one who is being plagued with it and one who is bestowing it, but the Haggard is burdened with responsibility, the Killer Child is totally irresponsible. So it is much easier for the child who is nothing more than a Charles Manson of a cult’s own creation.

The Child is a litany to a Cupid that uses a titles with a Greek alphabet due to it being falsely attired in some sort of “traditional form” of Eros, as sick as it is. The old Haggard is a litany to a Cupid that is attired to the modern in its image, yet falsely so, and English spelling therefore used for the “song”. They hint at the differences to be displayed. The Child is used, it is a sick form of songlike couplets to portray a playful Eros. The Old Man features a series of stanzas with the tired A, B, A, B rhyme scheme that almost matches the drum of a tired march. One is young, the other is worn out. One is a vacuum, the other is tired of responsibility and just wants to get back to the golf course.

The outcome doesn’t look good.

 

[MD]

This war has religious, ethnic and political overtones. The Iranians want power more than to declare some sort of Shi'a supremacy, the Persians ruled the Middle East for thousands of years when Zoroastrian and even the Muslim Persians had powerful empires within their own right. There is a sense of Imperialism within Iranian culture, a superiority complex. Most of the Islamic Golden Age occurred in the Persian parts of the Islamic Empire and even Saladin was a Kurd, who are ethnically Iranic people. It also doesn't help that Israel has a fanatic in power, there is no doubt that this **** storm will grow if Netanyahu decides to go more cray.

I'm glad we have someone like Obama in this situation, a Republican would have already sent in the troops by now to Syria, Iraq, Yemen and probably Ukraine too.

 

[esmith]

This war has religious, ethnic and political overtones. The Iranians want power more than to declare some sort of Shi'a supremacy, the Persians ruled the Middle East for thousands of years when Zoroastrian and even the Muslim Persians had powerful empires within their own right. There is a sense of Imperialism within Iranian culture, a superiority complex. Most of the Islamic Golden Age occurred in the Persian parts of the Islamic Empire and even Saladin was a Kurd, who are ethnically Iranic people. It also doesn't help that Israel has a fanatic in power, there is no doubt that this **** storm will grow if Netanyahu decides to go more cray.

I'm glad we have someone like Obama in this situation, a Republican would have already sent in the troops by now to Syria, Iraq, Yemen and probably Ukraine too.

Do you mean that you think that the current tensions in the Middle East is between Iran and Israel not Iran and the rest of the Arab world?

 

[gsa]

This war has religious, ethnic and political overtones. The Iranians want power more than to declare some sort of Shi'a supremacy, the Persians ruled the Middle East for thousands of years when Zoroastrian and even the Muslim Persians had powerful empires within their own right. There is a sense of Imperialism within Iranian culture, a superiority complex. Most of the Islamic Golden Age occurred in the Persian parts of the Islamic Empire and even Saladin was a Kurd, who are ethnically Iranic people. It also doesn't help that Israel has a fanatic in power, there is no doubt that this **** storm will grow if Netanyahu decides to go more cray.

I'm glad we have someone like Obama in this situation, a Republican would have already sent in the troops by now to Syria, Iraq, Yemen and probably Ukraine too.

I think that Republicans would be more likely to pull the trigger, but I have to admit that they are relatively unlikely to disrupt relations to that extent. But otherwise agreed.

 

[Shad]

This war has religious, ethnic and political overtones. The Iranians want power more than to declare some sort of Shi'a supremacy, the Persians ruled the Middle East for thousands of years when Zoroastrian and even the Muslim Persians had powerful empires within their own right. There is a sense of Imperialism within Iranian culture, a superiority complex. Most of the Islamic Golden Age occurred in the Persian parts of the Islamic Empire and even Saladin was a Kurd, who are ethnically Iranic people. It also doesn't help that Israel has a fanatic in power, there is no doubt that this **** storm will grow if Netanyahu decides to go more cray.

I'm glad we have someone like Obama in this situation, a Republican would have already sent in the troops by now to Syria, Iraq, Yemen and probably Ukraine too.

I would add that it is not just Iran that is saber rattling. Sunni oil states have been flexing their economic muscle in light of sanctions against Iran for years. Both sides have invested interesting in changing the status quo in their favour rather than their rivals. There are also internal politics in play as people themselves are becoming fed up with the status quo for various reasons.

 

[esmith]

This war has religious, ethnic and political overtones. The Iranians want power more than to declare some sort of Shi'a supremacy, the Persians ruled the Middle East for thousands of years when Zoroastrian and even the Muslim Persians had powerful empires within their own right. There is a sense of Imperialism within Iranian culture, a superiority complex. Most of the Islamic Golden Age occurred in the Persian parts of the Islamic Empire and even Saladin was a Kurd, who are ethnically Iranic people. It also doesn't help that Israel has a fanatic in power, there is no doubt that this **** storm will grow if Netanyahu decides to go more cray.

I'm glad we have someone like Obama in this situation, a Republican would have already sent in the troops by now to Syria, Iraq, Yemen and probably Ukraine too.

I think that Republicans would be more likely to pull the trigger, but I have to admit that they are relatively unlikely to disrupt relations to that extent. But otherwise agreed.

The problem is that when a country appears weak and unwilling to face reality other countries tend to see you as weak or unwilling to make hard decisions which can and has caused major wars and conflicts. When a country projects strength and backs that up with the will to commit military action, your adversaries are less likely to make decisions based on an assumption based on the aforementioned. If you look back at history you will see that wars and major conflicts happen when one or more countries perceive that they can project their agenda without fear of reprisal.

 

[Woodrow LI]

There's no love lost between the Saudis and the Iranians, so things could definitely get a lot nastier before getting better.

I agree.
It is no more about religion than WW2 was about German Lutherans vs American Fundamentalism.

 

[metis]

I agree.
It is no more about religion than WW2 was about German Lutherans vs American Fundamentalism.

Religion is also involved, which is why most of the time the Sunni gets support from other Sunni, and the Shi'i with other Shi'i. One simply cannot nor should not take religion out of the picture.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Religion is also involved, which is why most of the time the Sunni gets support from other Sunni, and the Shi'i with other Shi'i. One simply cannot nor should not take religion out of the picture.

Being Muslim and having lived in the region at least briefly. I have never seen the religious significant in the conflicts and have always seen it as Arab vs Iranian. Virtually every Shi'a in the region is Iranian or an Iran supporter and nearly every Sunni is Arab. The Arabs are a Semitic people and the Iranians are Aryan ---Historically Semitics and Aryans have never played well together.

The only significance Shi'ite / Sunni has in the region is Shi'ite=Iran, and Sunni = Saudi.

 

[gsa]

I agree.
It is no more about religion than WW2 was about German Lutherans vs American Fundamentalism.

That's just absurd. ISIS is murdering people based on religious doctrine, choosing battles based on prophecy and the Shia militias are doing the same. The fact that there is an ethnic and national dimension to the conflict should not blind us to its religious character.

 

[gsa]

The problem is that when a country appears weak and unwilling to face reality other countries tend to see you as weak or unwilling to make hard decisions which can and has caused major wars and conflicts. When a country projects strength and backs that up with the will to commit military action, your adversaries are less likely to make decisions based on an assumption based on the aforementioned. If you look back at history you will see that wars and major conflicts happen when one or more countries perceive that they can project their agenda without fear of reprisal.

By this logic, the United States should just carpet bomb the ISIS controlled regions. That would certainly project strength, as you say. It would also be a serious war crime and a humanitarian disaster.

The reality is that we have a containment strategy in place. It is the only plausible strategy for the time being.

 

[metis]

Being Muslim and having lived in the region at least briefly. I have never seen the religious significant in the conflicts and have always seen it as Arab vs Iranian. Virtually every Shi'a in the region is Iranian or an Iran supporter and nearly every Sunni is Arab. The Arabs are a Semitic people and the Iranians are Aryan ---Historically Semitics and Aryans have never played well together.

The only significance Shi'ite / Sunni has in the region is Shi'ite=Iran, and Sunni = Saudi.

I've been in the region as well and have studied it both there and here, and religion is very much a factor in most cases. Typically, religion is a secondary factor in most wars, including there, with the number one factor usually involving conflict over the control of resources.

 

[Woodrow LI]

I've been in the region as well and have studied it both there and here, and religion is very much a factor in most cases. Typically, religion is a secondary factor in most wars, including there, with the number one factor usually involving conflict over the control of resources.

I believe we can both agree it is an issue over the control of resources--oil and/or the transportation of oil.

We will probably spend the rest of our lives disagreeing over the part Shi'ite or Sunni makes.

Here in the States I have seen no evidence of any Shi'ite/ Sunni animosity and I have seen Shi'ite in Sunni Mosques and Sunni in Shi'ite Mosques. i have prayed in a Shi'ite Mosque in Austin, Tx several times as it was the nearest mosque at prayer time
But it may be because outside of Dearborn,Michigan the h Shi'ite presence is negligable.

 

[metis]

I believe we can both agree it is an issue over the control of resources--oil and/or the transportation of oil.

We will probably spend the rest of our lives disagreeing over the part Shi'ite or Sunni makes.

Here in the States I have seen no evidence of any Shi'ite/ Sunni animosity and I have seen Shi'ite in Sunni Mosques and Sunni in Shi'ite Mosques. i have prayed in a Shi'ite Mosque in Austin, Tx several times as it was the nearest mosque at prayer time
But it may be because outside of Dearborn,Michigan the h Shi'ite presence is negligable.

Here in the Detroit area, we really haven't seen much conflict between the two at all, nor is there much conflict between the Muslim and Jewish communities here. But here ain't there.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Here in the Detroit area, we really haven't seen much conflict between the two at all, nor is there much conflict between the Muslim and Jewish communities here. But here ain't there.

Which may be an indication that religion is not the primary factor. I am a little familiar with the Detroit area. I had forgotten there is a sizable number of Shi'ite there.

 

[metis]

Which may be an indication that religion is not the primary factor.

The atmosphere is different here and less conducive to that kind of conflict, but it does occasionally happen. Many Muslims left the M.E. to get away from the conflicts and problems there, and probably most simply do not want to replicate there here. I had many M.E. students over the years, a fair number of them Muslim, and they were generally proud of both their religion and nationality, but the vast majority had no desire to return back there to live.

 

[Woodrow LI]

The atmosphere is different here and less conducive to that kind of conflict, but it does occasionally happen. Many Muslims left the M.E. to get away from the conflicts and problems there, and probably most simply do not want to replicate there here. I had many M.E. students over the years, a fair number of them Muslim, and they were generally proud of both their religion and nationality, but the vast majority had no desire to return back there to live.

I agree most immigrants from the M.E. have no desire to return

I grew up in Connecticut during WW2 and at the end of the war we had a huge number of immigrants from Poland, Italy and Germany. I believe I can safely say none of them ever wanted to return to their homelands and neither do their descendents.

 

[metis]

I agree most immigrants from the M.E. have no desire to return

I grew up in Connecticut during WW2 and at the end of the war we had a huge number of immigrants from Poland, Italy and Germany. I believe I can safely say none of them ever wanted to return to their homelands and neither do their descendents.

My wife is from Italy, and the last time we were there was 2001, and we both could live there quite easily if we could take family and friends with us.

 

[Woodrow LI]

My wife is from Italy, and the last time we were there was 2001, and we both could live there quite easily if we could take family and friends with us.

I would not mind living in Italy myself and I'm not even Italian. However, the people of Italian heritage (The one's I know) who came here as a result of WW2 do not seem to have any desire to return.
I find that typically people who came here as war refugees, not just Italians but also Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Afghan, Iraqi, Palestinian etc.