Has who asserts for "existing” or "non-existing" of something actively to lift burden of proof?

[paarsurrey]

I believe, anybody who asserts* something whether for "existing" something or "non-existing" of something actively, has to lift the burden of proof, please.
And it is reasonable.
Right, please?

Regards
___________
#169
*To assert :
as·sert
əˈsərt/
verb

1. state a fact or belief confidently and forcefully.
   "the company asserts that the cuts will not affect development"
   synonyms: declare, maintain, contend, argue, state, claim, propound, proclaim, announce, pronounce, swear, insist, avow; More
   • cause others to recognize (one's authority or a right) by confident and forceful behavior.
     "the good librarian is able to assert authority when required"
     synonyms: insist on, stand up for, uphold, defend, contend, establish, press for, push for, stress
     "we find it difficult to assert our rights"
   • behave or speak in a confident and forceful manner.
     "it was time to assert himself"
     synonyms: behave confidently, speak confidently, be assertive, put oneself forward, take a stand, make one's presence felt;
     informalput one's foot down
     "she was finally asserting herself, just like everyone told her to"

assert - Google Search

 

[Mox]

I believe, anybody who asserts* something whether for "existing" something or "non-existing" of something actively, has to lift the burden of proof, please.
And it is reasonable.
Right, please?

A positive claim requires substantiation on the part of the claimant.

Since a positive claim, such as, Ea the Annunkai God of the Babylonians, created mankind, requires evidence. To be treated seriously.

If there is no evidence for a positive claim, then there is no evidence to disprove.

Thus the negative claimant, cannot disprove the positive claim's evidence, it doesnt exist. He or she simply dismisses a baseless claim.

The burden of proof lies on the one making a positive claim, since it requires evidence, evidence which must exist, if the claim is true.

You may as well ask someone to accept that Unicorns exist, without evidence. They rightly and logically will tell you that they cannot accept Unicorns exist, until you provide evidence.

THEN they have a burden of proof, they must then disprove your proof.

This is exactly how it works in legal and scientific arguments.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

I believe, anybody who asserts* something whether for "existing" something or "non-existing" of something actively, has to lift the burden of proof, please.

Theist: God exists.

Atheist: I don't believe you. Do you have any evidence that God exists.

Theist: I don't have any evidence.

Atheist: Then I will continue to not believe you.

Obviously, the burden of proof lies with the theist. They are making the assertion that God exists.

And it is reasonable.

It is quite reasonable to not believe in claims that lack evidence. I doubt that you believe in fairies and leprechauns, and you probably don't believe in them because there is no evidence for their existence.

 

[`mud]

OH `god`....fairies again !
Now....about those leprechauns, lets talk.

 

[Spiderman]

Another masterpiece of an OP!

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

So you want me to take on the burden of disproving a God that you have not sufficiently proven in the first place?

Let's pretend that we have this exchange of words between us:

Me: "I believe in literal vampires."
You: "I don't believe in them."
Me: "Well, since I DO believe in them, YOU have to provide evidence that vampires don't exist before you're even allowed to say that you don't believe in them."
You: "That's utterly ridiculous. I can't believe you are so freaking dumb."
Me: "Oh my gosh... you're right! I can actually feel how dumb I have been in making these claims! Quick, point me in the direction of the nearest primary school!"​

Anyway - since you have no sufficient evidence, the most I'm able to do is listen to what you believe to be evidence and attempt to make you see why it is insufficient, or prove to you the ways in which your evidence fails (e.g. it is contradictory, has no correlation with reality, is not falsifiable, etc.) This is what atheists (and others who do not believe your specific religious claims) do all the time. Just pay attention, and why not try actually responding to some of the replies to your threads one of these times?

 

[Nakosis]

I believe, anybody who asserts* something whether for "existing" something or "non-existing" of something actively, has to lift the burden of proof, please.
And it is reasonable.
Right, please?

Regards

Yes and the proof provided should be verifiable, not just another claim.

Of course you're free to believe whatever you want, just don't expect anyone else to agree with your belief.

 

[Milton Platt]

I believe, anybody who asserts* something whether for "existing" something or "non-existing" of something actively, has to lift the burden of proof, please.
And it is reasonable.
Right, please?

Regards
___________
#169
*To assert :
as·sert
əˈsərt/
verb

1. state a fact or belief confidently and forcefully.
   "the company asserts that the cuts will not affect development"
   synonyms: declare, maintain, contend, argue, state, claim, propound, proclaim, announce, pronounce, swear, insist, avow; More
   • cause others to recognize (one's authority or a right) by confident and forceful behavior.
     "the good librarian is able to assert authority when required"
     synonyms: insist on, stand up for, uphold, defend, contend, establish, press for, push for, stress
     "we find it difficult to assert our rights"
   • behave or speak in a confident and forceful manner.
     "it was time to assert himself"
     synonyms: behave confidently, speak confidently, be assertive, put oneself forward, take a stand, make one's presence felt;
     informalput one's foot down
     "she was finally asserting herself, just like everyone told her to"

assert - Google Search

Yes, the one making the positive assertion does carry the burden of proof. That would go for the one asserting that there is a god, as well as the one asserting that there is no god.
Most atheists do not assert that there is no god, but rather, simply do not believe the assertion that there is has met it's burden of proof.

For that group of atheist that assert that they know there is no god, the same burden of proof must be met. There is no atheist that I know of who would state otherwise, including those that do say they know there is no god.

So what's your point???

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes and the proof provided should be verifiable, not just another claim.

Of course you're free to believe whatever you want, just don't expect anyone else to agree with your belief.

I believe in "G-d exists" very naturally like I believe in my father or my mother and that is sufficient experience for me. Matrix of religion are different than in science.
I am more concerned about myself, what others believe or don't believe does not and cannot harm me:

Quran [5:106]
O ye who believe! be heedful of your own selves. He who goes astray cannot harm you when you yourselves are rightly guided. To Allah will you all return; then will He disclose to you what you used to do.

The Holy Quran - Chapter: 5: Al-Ma'idah

Regards

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

I am more concerned about myself, what others believe or don't believe does not and cannot harm me:

Then why all of the threads that you started where you are concerned about what atheists do or do not believe?

 

[Nakosis]

I believe in "G-d exists" very naturally like I believe in my father or my mother and that is sufficient experience for me. Matrix of religion are different than in science.
I am more concerned about myself, what others believe or don't believe does not and cannot harm me:

Quran [5:106]
O ye who believe! be heedful of your own selves. He who goes astray cannot harm you when you yourselves are rightly guided. To Allah will you all return; then will He disclose to you what you used to do.

The Holy Quran - Chapter: 5: Al-Ma'idah

Regards

Do you believe because of what the Quran says or do you have other reasons to believe?

 

[paarsurrey]

Do you believe because of what the Quran says or do you have other reasons to believe?

Quran mentions both claims (from G-d) on an issue and the reasons thereof.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Then why all of the threads that you started where you are concerned about what atheists do or do not believe?

My basic concern is my own self, it doesn't mean I am unconcerned about others.
Well, Atheism is neither a faith nor a religion yet people belonging to Atheism write so passionately on a religious forum and defend their assertions without providing evidences to support them. Right, please?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

OH `god`....fairies again !
Now....about those leprechauns, lets talk.

That is another thread, please.
Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

I believe, anybody who asserts* something whether for "existing" something or "non-existing" of something actively, has to lift the burden of proof, please.
And it is reasonable.
Right, please?

No. That is well illustrated with Russell's Teapot. And by the difficulty that there is in proving that the God of Ibrahim does not exist, just as it can not be proved that I am not a werewolf from Alpha Centauri.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Well, Atheism is neither a faith nor a religion yet people belonging to Atheism write so passionately on a religious forum and defend their assertions without providing evidences to support them. Right, please?
Regards

Atheists are passionate people, just like anyone else. We atheists tend to be the minority in many cultures, including the US, and we tend to be misunderstood and misrepresented by the religious majority. The religious majority usually doesn't come to atheist forums to discuss atheism, so here we are.

There are atheists who also like a good debate, just like many theists.

 

[Hawkins]

I believe, anybody who asserts* something whether for "existing" something or "non-existing" of something actively, has to lift the burden of proof, please.
And it is reasonable.
Right, please?

It's a wrong premise.

No evidence will be provided when police urge for an evacuation, say, before a nuclear or terrorist attack. Will you refuse to leave your house without evidence presented?

It is so because it's a "you make your run or you die" situation. It means proof may only come at the moment of your own dead. Humans under the situation won't evaluate evidence to make a decision. Instead they examine the credibility of the source then believe or disbelieve with faith.

Burden of proof is only a valid argument under the situation that you have a neutral ground to stand on, that is, the situation won't affect your own dead or alive.

 

[paarsurrey]

Atheists are passionate people, just like anyone else. We atheists tend to be the minority in many cultures, including the US, and we tend to be misunderstood and misrepresented by the religious majority. The religious majority usually doesn't come to atheist forums to discuss atheism, so here we are.

There are atheists who also like a good debate, just like many theists.

"There are atheists who also like a good debate, just like many theists."

I welcome that, but they the Atheism people, fail to provide any evidences in support of Atheism they so fervently demand from the Believers. Don't they, please?
Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

"There are atheists who also like a good debate, just like many theists."

I welcome that, but they the Atheism people, fail to provide any evidences in support of Atheism they so fervently demand from the Believers. Don't they, please?
Regards

Oh boy, @paarsurrey .

Were your question that much more coherent, it would be quite spectacularly wrong.

As it is, it short-circuits itself just enough to make no sense.

 

[`mud]

Did I mention the bush that died that we were going around ?
Paars wants evidence of what atheists, like myself, don't believe in.
He also wants to know why we ask theists to present evidence of their own beliefs.
I want to know why he believes in an imaginary `god` or angels or dead saviors ?
And right now, I'm searching for another bush to go around. Where's my 4th beer ?