It's actually simpler than that, most of the time. It's more of a "I found this new shiny and what to show off or share my new shiny with others because it makes me so happy! Maybe it will make them happy too, or make them happy for me?"
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Have any of your friendships changed, or ended because you went back to faith...or left it?
- Thread starter Deidre
- Start date
It's actually simpler than that, most of the time. It's more of a "I found this new shiny and what to show off or share my new shiny with others because it makes me so happy! Maybe it will make them happy too, or make them happy for me?"
So a religious faith is just something a person has and isn't an aspect of their identity?It's actually simpler than that, most of the time. It's more of a "I found this new shiny and what to show off or share my new shiny with others because it makes me so happy! Maybe it will make them happy too, or make them happy for me?"
Apparently I wasn't clear.
The point you were supposed to get out of that is our desires to share conversion (or anything in our lives for that matter) is grounded in our emotional response to it. We get excited about something, and we want to share it with those around us.
I get that. What I don't get is why a believer who considers religion to be important enough to them to convert would be surprised when someone else considers religion important enough to end a friendship.
The idea that religion isn't a big deal at all and should never cause friction between people seems to me to minimize the importance of religion, which I find strange coming from religious people.
If your faith informs your actions, sometimes you'll find that people who don't share your faith will disagree with you. And if your faith doesn't inform your actions, what use is it?
Draka
Wonder Woman
I haven't lost any friends or loved ones due to a conversion, but I have had people turn on me when they find out I'm not what they thought I was. I'm not one for talking much about what I believe that much, especially in general conversation. The assumption around here seems to be that a person is Christian right off the bat. When, for one reason or another, some find out that one isn't then the reaction seems to generally go one of three ways. One, they drop you like some infected rotten piece of food. Two, they don't care at all much more than an "oh" and go on like before. Or three, suddenly become interested in what is believed and ask all kinds of questions as many aren't exposed to such different beliefs.
There are probably a number of reasons for that, and it would be specific to the individual case in question. A few things to consider.
Speaking to "conversions" to contemporary Pagan religions (which is a phenomena I know best), I put that term conversion in quotes for a reason. It is common for contemporary Pagans to describe their "conversion" in terms of "this is what I was all along, but didn't know there was a word for that or a religion for that already." It's a sort of homecoming. In cases like this, taking up the label doesn't represent some dramatic change in who that person is or what they do. Someone getting upset enough to end a friendship over that is basically the equivalent of someone ending a friendship because Suzy changed her legal name to Betsy (or, in other respects, it's similar to homosexuals coming out of the closet in that it doesn't represent an actual change in the person, just a change in others' awareness of that status).
There are also elements tied to what people expect from friendships. While the term "friend" has been grossly diluted in today's culture, at core it used to be about cultivating good relationships with one's fellows and accepting other people for who and what they are, unconditionally. Accepting others for who they are most certainly includes religious affiliation, and for one to break a friendship over that would be surprising for people who are more old-school about what friendship means.
Sadly, there is someone I have in mind who has treated me differently since I've come back to faith. Not in a bad way, but was very interested in the friendship, and then changed as the past few weeks have gone on. Hardly hear from them anymore, and the only thing that has changed is me coming back to Christianity.
My thought is, this person was never a true friend to begin with, so there's always that conclusion. But, it still hurts.
Have you ever been through something like that with a friendship? (over your faith or lack thereof, just basically changing your position, and then the friendship changed?)
Yes. But I don't attribute it to any remote hostility. If our friendship was shared through a religion, when I changed, a distance had been created by default.
So, some friends and I eventually went our separate ways. A handful felt hurt or rejected and either lashed out once or showed brief contempt toward my new journey. And some friends and I found other meaningful shared interests.
Another way to look at those sorts of "conversions" is as the person coming to the realization that they aren't the person they thought they were... but when this is echoed in external relationships, I'm sure that "you aren't the person I thought you were" has been said in the course of the ending of many friendships... and divorces... and disownments.
If you realize that you were just going through the motions in your former faith and realize that some other faith is a better fit for what you've believed all along, this might not feel like a big change to you, but it would to someone who assumed that you weren't going through the motions, but were expressing sincere, devout belief.
Edit: Something else to consider: different people have different values. Even if you think something is unimportant to you, someone else might consider it very important. It's not your place to declare their value judgement to be wrong.
If you're the one who's changed, then you're the one who has potentially changed the basis for the friendship. You should realize that different people will take this in different ways.
While I see your point, there was just a subtle understanding that I went back to faith, no big fan fare about it. On here I've shared it because it's a religious forum lol But, in my offline life, perhaps a friend asks what I'm doing on a particular day, and when I said 'going to church' and then named other things, that prompted them to inquire, and then the discussion ensued. Nothing else has changed. I'm not one to evangelize, or badger people to believe what I do. Even as an atheist, I wasn't debating friends about it. I think that many people have a disdain for Christianity. If I came out 'Buddhist'...something tells me, my friends would be supportive. Not that I need support.
I need coffee. lol Hope this make sense.
This is very helpful to me, thanks Heather.
Satanists are a very friendly bunch I've come to learn. It's a compliment to you.
Draka
Wonder Woman
You'd think most people on this forum would know better. People convert on here all the time. It's just bound to happen when one puts themselves in a place to actually speak to and gain information from people of other faiths that they may not have ever considered before.
Physical fights? omg.
I may ask for details.
I think this is worth addressing this:
- minimizing conversion this way is a good example of what I was talking about before about minimizing the importance of religion.
- someone who changes their name from Suzy to Betsy isn't just someone who likes the name Betsy better; it's usually someone who can't stand to live as a Suzy any longer.
I am friends with both you and Deidre here on rf and other Christians and Muslims, but again, I am not an anti-Christian/Muslim Satanist. I think I am pretty open minded, and find similarities in our very different belief systems.
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I think it does.
Is it about the particular church?
In my real-life experience, Christian churches have a range of reputations. I've known some that were generally considered good, a whole bunch that were neutral, a whole bunch that were slightly negative, and some with horrible reputations in the surrounding community. If somebody here told me that they were a Christian, my interpretation of whether this was a good thing or a bad thing - and whether this was a person I needed to be careful of - would depend greatly on which church they said they belonged to.
Wirey
Fartist
Sadly, there is someone I have in mind who has treated me differently since I've come back to faith. Not in a bad way, but was very interested in the friendship, and then changed as the past few weeks have gone on. Hardly hear from them anymore, and the only thing that has changed is me coming back to Christianity.
My thought is, this person was never a true friend to begin with, so there's always that conclusion. But, it still hurts.
Have you ever been through something like that with a friendship? (over your faith or lack thereof, just basically changing your position, and then the friendship changed?)
Perhaps he had hoped to do the Wirey and realized it wasn't gonna happen if Jebus was in the room.
I stopped talking to an old friend when she got Jebus because all she could talk about was how she was filled with the holy spirit. Sadly, I mostly remember her being full of tequila, and Teamsters.
I find similarities in our very different belief systems.
Don't know a whole lot about Islam but in regards to Christianity?
"Thou shalt honor thy mother and thy father." Yes, with my parents, yes!
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." 98.9% of the time, yes.
And even Muslims? What does that suppose to mean?
Just kidding
Way to pick a fight, eh?