-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Have any prominent Sikhs converted to Hinduism?
- Thread starter ronki23
- Start date
I don't know any straight-up converts, but I do know the Hindu-Sikh boundary is a bit of a fantasy. I know plenty of Sikhs who go to mandirs, and plenty of Hindus who go to gurdwaras. The boundary is so non-existent in actuality that most people who are in that fuzzy in between area actually don't even notice that some people might find it odd.
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
Namaste,
No i have not heard of any Sikhs Converting to Hinduism, but that does not mean that it does not happen somewhere or has happened in some time. As Hinduism has no official "Conversion", method nor does it require much religious practices that are consistent within Hinduism for all Hindus (similar to Sikh tradition of wearing the knife, turban, beard, the 5 K's i think ect), if a Sikh decides to becomes Hindu, it would be practically un-noticeable.
I view Sikhism as more a exclusive Dharmah Tradition, because it claims to have the complete truth in the Guru Granth Sahib, and having only one God (Onkara) is a alternative to the Abrahamic religions and therefore a Hindu who seeks monotheism, or is uncomfortable with the "Many Gods", idea may feel more comfortable converting to Sikhism, which is a better choice then the Abrahamic religions. Sikhi has the Gurus, meditation and the Kirtans which are vary familiar to Hindus
I wounder if a Sikh girl marries a Hindu Boy, will they convert? are they allowed to convert from Sikhi to Hinduism? are they even allowed to Marry out of Sikhi?
ronki23
Well-Known Member
Sikhs are not supposed to go to Hindu Mandir, Rehat Maryada states that Sikhs should not pray to idols. I've never heard of Sikhs going to Mandir but I've heard of Hindus going to Gurudwara because Sikhs welcome all faiths
Really? I am surprised. I know many Sikhs who go to mandir. I have some Sikh friends who go to the ashram I attend, and among the pilgrims I see lots of Sikhs.
ronki23
Well-Known Member
Why would Sikhi be a better choice than Abrahamic religion? What about Arya Samaj as they're monotheistic and have no deities.
In the UK there have been incidents where police have been called as Sikhs have been locking the Gurdwara and protesting; refusing to allow Hindus and Sikhs to marry in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib
ronki23
Well-Known Member
Here are some links r.e Sikh-non Sikh strains
Sikh weddings crashed by protesters objecting to mixed faith marriages - BBC News
The British Sikh men trying to prevent inter-faith marriages
Interfaith marriage is not the battle young Sikhs should be fighting
Fifty-five arrested after armed siege at Sikh temple in protest over interfaith marriage
As a Hindu myself I can understand why a Hindu would convert to Sikhism: the philosophy and principles which are unity of all religions and serving and defending those in need regardless of faith. However, why would a Sikh convert as most see Hinduism as polytheistic. What do Sikhs pray to at Hindu Mandir?
Sikh weddings crashed by protesters objecting to mixed faith marriages - BBC News
The British Sikh men trying to prevent inter-faith marriages
Interfaith marriage is not the battle young Sikhs should be fighting
Fifty-five arrested after armed siege at Sikh temple in protest over interfaith marriage
As a Hindu myself I can understand why a Hindu would convert to Sikhism: the philosophy and principles which are unity of all religions and serving and defending those in need regardless of faith. However, why would a Sikh convert as most see Hinduism as polytheistic. What do Sikhs pray to at Hindu Mandir?
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
"ronki23,"
Namaste,
Because as far as i know, Sikhi advises the idea of Dharmah and is not culturally designed to be against different modes of worship, it is less violent and more respectful compared to religions like Islam.
Yes, Arya Samaj also is a good choice, Arya Samaj was not the subject of discussion, but those who don't wish to have any associations with anything "Hindu", would still find Arya Samaj to be Hinduism because of their adherence to Veda.
This i did not know, the more the reason i would term Sikhi as a exclusive Dharmah.
Dhanyavad
Namaste,
Because as far as i know, Sikhi advises the idea of Dharmah and is not culturally designed to be against different modes of worship, it is less violent and more respectful compared to religions like Islam.
Yes, Arya Samaj also is a good choice, Arya Samaj was not the subject of discussion, but those who don't wish to have any associations with anything "Hindu", would still find Arya Samaj to be Hinduism because of their adherence to Veda.
This i did not know, the more the reason i would term Sikhi as a exclusive Dharmah.
Dhanyavad
Treks
Well-Known Member
Part of the issue some Sikhs have with a marriage conducted according to Sikh rites (called Anand Karaj) is that the rite itself talks more about a person's growing relationship and one-ness with God, than it does about a couple getting married. It is sort of implied that the hymns sung during the Anand Karaj are as much about the couple uniting and becoming one soul as it is about people uniting with God. So, some Sikhs feel that it's inappropriate (nonsensical, really) for a non-Sikh (doesn't matter if they're Hindu or not) to participate in this particular ritual.
You'll find most Sikhs will tolerate a Sikh/non-Sikh marriage if it's performed any other way than via Anand Karaj. However, the Sikh Rehat Maryada (Sikh Code of Conduct) does say that the daughter of a Sikh must marry a Sikh. I don't think this is strictly observed outside of Punjab.
Funny side story: I was invited to an Anand Karaj once where the bride was a Sikh and the groom an Italian. Obviously no-one thought to tell the Italian family what to expect during the rite, because a lot of them wore short skirts which made it awkward for sitting on the floor!
You'll find most Sikhs will tolerate a Sikh/non-Sikh marriage if it's performed any other way than via Anand Karaj. However, the Sikh Rehat Maryada (Sikh Code of Conduct) does say that the daughter of a Sikh must marry a Sikh. I don't think this is strictly observed outside of Punjab.
Funny side story: I was invited to an Anand Karaj once where the bride was a Sikh and the groom an Italian. Obviously no-one thought to tell the Italian family what to expect during the rite, because a lot of them wore short skirts which made it awkward for sitting on the floor!
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
What is the need? Sikhi is as good as Hinduism. We too rever the Sikh gurus. Personally, I take Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Sahib as the Punjabi expositor of Upanishads. For me, the differences do not matter.
As I have mentioned in the forum, the first temple that my younger grandson went to was a gurudwara on the fourth day after his birth and that my daughter-in-law will go to a gurudwara for 40 days for the welfare of the family. On two occasions my son was on the verge of marrying Sikh girls. I would have had no objections had he married one of them them. Even my daughter-in-law has a mixed Sikh ancestry (her grandmother was from a Sikh family).
Sikhi, for me is the attitude and not a religion. Sikh gurus themselves said they were neither Hindu nor Muslim, i.e., they did not believe in differences due to name, echoing what upanishads said - 'vipra bahudha vadanti'.
Last edited:
Spirit_Warrior
Active Member
I found it quite surprising to hear a few people say that no Sikh would convert to Hinduism. I was born Sikh and I converted to Hinduism. I agree with what Kirran said though, the boundary between Sikhism and Hinduism is too fuzzy, such that I would go as far as saying I didn't really leave Sikhism to join a completely different religion, rather I branched out of Sikhism into the wider religion of Hinduism that I see it as a part of. To me Sikhism was too limiting because of its overly theistic interpretation and the scriptures were not very philosophically satisfying, in the same way the Upanishads, Bhagvad Gita etc stir the intellect to think philosophically. In contrast, the Guru Granth Sahib is more like a book of hymns and prayers to God and is more faith-based. To illustrate with an example:
Bhagvad Gita:
1. Aruna says: If it be thought by Thee that knowledge is superior to action, O Krishna, why then, O Kesava, dost Thou ask me to engage in this terrible action?
2. With these apparently perplexing words Thou confusest, as it were, my understanding; therefore, tell me that one way for certain by which I may attain bliss
3.The Blessed Lord said: . In this world there is a twofold path, as I said before, O sinless one,—the path of knowledge of the Sankhyas and the path of action of the Yogis!
4. Not by the non-performance of actions does man reach actionlessness, nor by mere renunciation does he attain to perfection.
5. Verily none can ever remain for even a moment without performing action; for, everyone is made to act helplessly indeed by the qualities born of Nature.
6. He who, restraining the organs of action, sits thinking of the sense-objects in mind, he, of deluded understanding, is called a hypocrite.
7. But whosoever, controlling the senses by the mind, O Arjuna, engages himself in Karma Yoga with the organs of action, without attachment, he excels!
8. Do thou perform thy bounden duty, for action is superior to inaction and even the maintenance of the body would not be possible for thee by inaction.
9. The world is bound by actions other than those performed for the sake of sacrifice; do thou, therefore, O son of Kunti, perform action for that sake (for sacrifice) alone, free from attachment!
Guru Granth sahib:
Renounce all your cleverness and remember the Supreme, Formless Lord God. Without the One True Name, everything appears as dust. || 1 || Know that God is always with you. By Guru’s Grace, one understands, and is imbued with the Love of the One Lord. || 1 || Pause || Seek the Shelter of the One All-powerful Lord; there is no other place of rest. The vast and terrifying world-ocean is crossed over, singing continually the Glorious Praises of the Lord. || 2 || Birth and death are overcome, and one does not have to suffer in the City of Death. He alone obtains the treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, unto whom God shows His Mercy. || 3 || The One Lord is my Anchor and Support; the One Lord alone is the power of my mind. O Nanak, joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, meditate on Him; without the Lord, there is no other at all.
This gives a snap shot of the difference in approach and style of both scriptures. No matter which part of the Guru Granth Sahib you read, it is all like the above, after a while it sounds very repetitive. It is almost like if you read just a few pages, you have read it all. On the other hand, the Bhagvad Gita presents a philosophical dialogue between Arjuna and Krishna and Arjuna asks him question and after question, even to the point of challenging what Krishna is saying, and Krishna has to answer by justifying with reason. This makes it far more interesting and satisfying scripture to read and every chapter offers something new. There is even a question where Arjuna asks Krishna to explain what matter is, what spirit is and what is their distinction. It is thus a highly sophisticated scripture, a delight for a philosopher and intellectual.
The other reason I turned to Hinduism was Hinduism was far more diverse than Sikhism. It had like literally tens of thousands of scriptures to read, -- ranging from massive epics(Mahabharata, Ramayana) to treatises on logic and epistemology, natural philosophy, linguistics, ethics, psychology, drama and aesthetics, medicine, statecraft and economics. In addition to 6+ entire systems of philosophy with volumes of literature covering every argument in philosophy you can think of. I have been reading them for decades and I have only managed to read dozens. It keeps me busy, it is always interesting and always rewarding.
It is also a far more beautiful religion. Sikh art is very limited and there are lot of restrictions on how you depict the gurus in images, and it is forbidden for an actor to play a guru. There was recently a huge uproar over the movie "Nanak Shah Fakir" where the director tried to show the life of guru Nanak, and went to great lengths to not offend Sikhs by never showing the face of the guru, but the central Sikh authority(Akal takt) which is almost like a Muslim fatwa council, had the movie pulled and you cannot find it anywhere now. Wherever it was showing Sikh fundamentalists even tried to disrupt the screening. I The Sikh art in temples is also very depressing, they are usually images of the gurus being tortured by Muslim and offer gruesome images(in some sense you could say it is similar to Jesus torture on the crucifix) The same is true for architecture, the Gudwaras all look virtually the same
Hindu art is beautiful because it is so diverse and there are no restrictions on depicting Hindu gods, it is all subject to the artists interpretation, and some artists represent them very erotically, even as far back as classical India you find highly erotic representations of Hindu gods and even explicit sexual scenes in temple murals. The temples all look different too, though there is a basic temple design following traditional rules of temple design, there is a lot of creative and artistic freedom. There are no prohibitions like actors cannot play the role of Gods, in fact in classical Indian drama most of the plays are about Hindu gods played by people. You even find Hindu gods in comic books, which would be "haraam" in Sikhism.
I have freedom in Hinduism to question God, and that is a total no no in Sikhism. I once tried to ask some questions to my local Sikh priest, and he replied back like an Islamic Mullah, in a very dogmatic manner, in a sort of it is my way or the highway. In contrast, when I asked a Hindu guru questions, he responded back with reasonable arguments and I asked very tough questions. In Hinduism I have a choice for everything, can literally choose what scriptures I want to read(if any) whether I want to go temple or not, whether I want to worship idols or not. I can even pick which God I want to worship or even reject God. There is no central authority to force me to do anything. This makes it a highly democratic religion.
In many ways you can say Sikhism in the manner it is organised today bears very strong resemblance with Islam. Its beliefs and practices are decidedly Hindu though, in fact Sikh theology is almost identical to Shankaras Advaita Vedanta philosophy
I just want to clarify my aim was not to criticise Sikhism or start a Sikhism vs Hinduism debate, but merely to answer why I as a born Sikh converted to Hinduism, though I use the word "converted" in a loose sense, because as already stated, the boundaries between them are fuzzy.
Bhagvad Gita:
1. Aruna says: If it be thought by Thee that knowledge is superior to action, O Krishna, why then, O Kesava, dost Thou ask me to engage in this terrible action?
2. With these apparently perplexing words Thou confusest, as it were, my understanding; therefore, tell me that one way for certain by which I may attain bliss
3.The Blessed Lord said: . In this world there is a twofold path, as I said before, O sinless one,—the path of knowledge of the Sankhyas and the path of action of the Yogis!
4. Not by the non-performance of actions does man reach actionlessness, nor by mere renunciation does he attain to perfection.
5. Verily none can ever remain for even a moment without performing action; for, everyone is made to act helplessly indeed by the qualities born of Nature.
6. He who, restraining the organs of action, sits thinking of the sense-objects in mind, he, of deluded understanding, is called a hypocrite.
7. But whosoever, controlling the senses by the mind, O Arjuna, engages himself in Karma Yoga with the organs of action, without attachment, he excels!
8. Do thou perform thy bounden duty, for action is superior to inaction and even the maintenance of the body would not be possible for thee by inaction.
9. The world is bound by actions other than those performed for the sake of sacrifice; do thou, therefore, O son of Kunti, perform action for that sake (for sacrifice) alone, free from attachment!
Guru Granth sahib:
Renounce all your cleverness and remember the Supreme, Formless Lord God. Without the One True Name, everything appears as dust. || 1 || Know that God is always with you. By Guru’s Grace, one understands, and is imbued with the Love of the One Lord. || 1 || Pause || Seek the Shelter of the One All-powerful Lord; there is no other place of rest. The vast and terrifying world-ocean is crossed over, singing continually the Glorious Praises of the Lord. || 2 || Birth and death are overcome, and one does not have to suffer in the City of Death. He alone obtains the treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, unto whom God shows His Mercy. || 3 || The One Lord is my Anchor and Support; the One Lord alone is the power of my mind. O Nanak, joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, meditate on Him; without the Lord, there is no other at all.
This gives a snap shot of the difference in approach and style of both scriptures. No matter which part of the Guru Granth Sahib you read, it is all like the above, after a while it sounds very repetitive. It is almost like if you read just a few pages, you have read it all. On the other hand, the Bhagvad Gita presents a philosophical dialogue between Arjuna and Krishna and Arjuna asks him question and after question, even to the point of challenging what Krishna is saying, and Krishna has to answer by justifying with reason. This makes it far more interesting and satisfying scripture to read and every chapter offers something new. There is even a question where Arjuna asks Krishna to explain what matter is, what spirit is and what is their distinction. It is thus a highly sophisticated scripture, a delight for a philosopher and intellectual.
The other reason I turned to Hinduism was Hinduism was far more diverse than Sikhism. It had like literally tens of thousands of scriptures to read, -- ranging from massive epics(Mahabharata, Ramayana) to treatises on logic and epistemology, natural philosophy, linguistics, ethics, psychology, drama and aesthetics, medicine, statecraft and economics. In addition to 6+ entire systems of philosophy with volumes of literature covering every argument in philosophy you can think of. I have been reading them for decades and I have only managed to read dozens. It keeps me busy, it is always interesting and always rewarding.
It is also a far more beautiful religion. Sikh art is very limited and there are lot of restrictions on how you depict the gurus in images, and it is forbidden for an actor to play a guru. There was recently a huge uproar over the movie "Nanak Shah Fakir" where the director tried to show the life of guru Nanak, and went to great lengths to not offend Sikhs by never showing the face of the guru, but the central Sikh authority(Akal takt) which is almost like a Muslim fatwa council, had the movie pulled and you cannot find it anywhere now. Wherever it was showing Sikh fundamentalists even tried to disrupt the screening. I The Sikh art in temples is also very depressing, they are usually images of the gurus being tortured by Muslim and offer gruesome images(in some sense you could say it is similar to Jesus torture on the crucifix) The same is true for architecture, the Gudwaras all look virtually the same
Hindu art is beautiful because it is so diverse and there are no restrictions on depicting Hindu gods, it is all subject to the artists interpretation, and some artists represent them very erotically, even as far back as classical India you find highly erotic representations of Hindu gods and even explicit sexual scenes in temple murals. The temples all look different too, though there is a basic temple design following traditional rules of temple design, there is a lot of creative and artistic freedom. There are no prohibitions like actors cannot play the role of Gods, in fact in classical Indian drama most of the plays are about Hindu gods played by people. You even find Hindu gods in comic books, which would be "haraam" in Sikhism.
I have freedom in Hinduism to question God, and that is a total no no in Sikhism. I once tried to ask some questions to my local Sikh priest, and he replied back like an Islamic Mullah, in a very dogmatic manner, in a sort of it is my way or the highway. In contrast, when I asked a Hindu guru questions, he responded back with reasonable arguments and I asked very tough questions. In Hinduism I have a choice for everything, can literally choose what scriptures I want to read(if any) whether I want to go temple or not, whether I want to worship idols or not. I can even pick which God I want to worship or even reject God. There is no central authority to force me to do anything. This makes it a highly democratic religion.
In many ways you can say Sikhism in the manner it is organised today bears very strong resemblance with Islam. Its beliefs and practices are decidedly Hindu though, in fact Sikh theology is almost identical to Shankaras Advaita Vedanta philosophy
I just want to clarify my aim was not to criticise Sikhism or start a Sikhism vs Hinduism debate, but merely to answer why I as a born Sikh converted to Hinduism, though I use the word "converted" in a loose sense, because as already stated, the boundaries between them are fuzzy.
Last edited:
ronki23
Well-Known Member
This is one thing that frustrates me about Sikhi; they state all humans are equal and all paths lead to God yet you say Rehat Maryada forbids the marriage of Sikh girls and non Sikh men (hence why I asked if the girls became Hindu). If I remember correctly it also states that only Amritdhari Sikhs may recite Sri Guru Granth Sahib in Gurdwara and only Amritdhari Sikhs can be Panj Pyare during Vaisakhi. I don't understand why Sikhs state equality yet there's exclusivity in rituals- if all paths lead to God why be a Sikh? Unless they mean karma is rewarded regardless of religion?
ronki23
Well-Known Member
Is there anywhere one can watch Nanak Shah Fakir as I'd like to see it
Treks
Well-Known Member
In relation to your comments above, the Sikh Rehat Maryada says the following:
--
Marriage
Chapter XI - Article SVIII (Anand Sanskar)
b. A Sikh's daughter must be married to a Sikh.
Scripture read out in Gurdwara only by Sikhs (not necessarily Amritdhari Sikhs)
Chapter V - Artivle VI (Kirtan)
a. Only a Sikh may perform kirtan in a congregation.
Chapter VI - Article VII (Taking Hukam)
c. Only a Sikh, man or woman, is entitled to be in attendance of the Guru Granth Sahib during the congregational session.
d. Only a Sikh may read out from the Guru Granth for others However, even a non-Sikh may read from it for himself/herself.
Chapter IX - Article XIII (Exposition of Gurbanii)
a. The exposition of the Gurbani in a congregational gathering should be carried out only be a Sikh.
Initiated Sikhs the only ones to be Panj Pyare (you're gonna love this)
Chapter XIII - Article XXIV (Ceremony of Baptism or Initiation)
c. The five beloved ones who administer ambrosial baptism should not include a disabled person, such as a person who is blind or blind in one eye, lame, one with a broken or disabled limb, or one suffering from some chronic disease. The number should not include anyone who has committed a breach of the Sikh discipline and principles. All of them should be committed baptized Sikhs with appealing personalities.
--
I think the idea that Sikhs think all paths lead to God is a bit of a misnomer. I think it's more like 'all paths lead to God as long as one japs Naam'.
I don't understand much of the terminology that you use, so please forgive me if I am jumping to clearly mistaken conclusions.
Still, at first glance it feels like you may be interpreting measures meant to preserve the meaning and competence of specific ceremonies with discriminations against actual people.
Hi, Treks. It is always nice to meet you.
May I ask for some clarification that may hopefully be of some use to others and will certainly be of use to me?
While "Naam" seems to be an almost Islamic understanding of deity, or perhaps an Advaitan one. I am just not sure, and that may well be the point.
May you please direct me towards a better understanding of the expression? Thanks!
May I ask for some clarification that may hopefully be of some use to others and will certainly be of use to me?
A quick search suggests that "jaap" is a Sikh concept, not too distant from what a Hindu would call "Bhakti" or, in a more general sense, devotional prayer or recitation.
While "Naam" seems to be an almost Islamic understanding of deity, or perhaps an Advaitan one. I am just not sure, and that may well be the point.
May you please direct me towards a better understanding of the expression? Thanks!
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Sure, karma (and its 'phala') is regardless of religion. What is wrong if they ask Sikhs who have vowed to follow the precepts to lead the congregation rather than the middlers?
Treks: "a person who is blind or blind in one eye, lame, one with a broken or disabled limb,"
I am sure Sri Guru Nanak Sahib ji did not make this rule.
Naam Jap: Repeated recitation of God's name as with beads or with hymns, in case of Sikhs 'Ek Onkar' (The One Brahman). Of course, there can only be one Brahman.
Last edited:
Treks
Well-Known Member
Hi, Luis
Good Googling! Yes, "Bhakti" as in the concept of "devotion to God" is totally the right idea.
Different Sikhs understand 'Naam japna' (chanting the Naam) differently. To some, it is actual repetition of the word 'Waheguru'. This vocal or mental repetition is called 'Naam simran' by this group.
To others, the Naam is not a word, it is a recognition of God in everything, and the repetition is of remembering God present in everything and every one at every moment. This constant remembrance is 'Naam simran' to this second group. I don't know enough about the Advaitan understanding of deity to guide you in that respect. I can only say that some Sikhs understand a monotheistic God, and others as panentheistic.
The first group is trying to achieve what the second group is trying to achieve, but they do it a different way. Similarly you could say that 'all paths lead to God' but only if they're trying to bring a constant awareness of God in All to the practitioner's reality.
I think if you read a few pages of Gurbani from page 14 onwards, with the above second group's point of view in mind, it becomes clear.
Hope I've helped!