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Have any prominent Sikhs converted to Hinduism?

Treks

Well-Known Member
Sure, karma (and its 'phala') is regardless of religion. What is wrong if they ask Sikhs who have vowed to follow the precepts to lead the congregation rather than the middlers?

Treks: "a person who is blind or blind in one eye, lame, one with a broken or disabled limb,"
I am sure Sri Guru Nanak Sahib ji did not make this rule.

Naam Jap: Repeated recitation of God's name as with beads or with hymns, in case of Sikhs 'Ek Onkar' (The One Brahman). Of course, there can only be one Brahman. :)

Just for clarity, it's not saying that a person who is blind, lame, disabled, etc. can't be initiated. It's saying such a person can't be part of the team of 5 who initiates others. I have no real idea why that rule exists, but I can speculate that maybe it's supposed to be because the Panj Pyare assembled like that are supposed to represent the Guru.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Perhaps because Panj Pyare are to lead the congregation is peace as well as war (the tradition started with Sri Guru Govind Singh ji Sahib), that is why they should be full-bodied.

"Panj Pyare (literally the five beloved ones), is the name collectively given to the five Sikh men, Bhai Daya Singh Ji, Bhai Dharam Singh Ji, Bhai Himmat Singh Ji, Bhai Mohkam Singh Ji and Bhai Sahib Singh Ji by Guru Gobind Singh Ji at the historic divan at Anandpur Sahib on 14th April 1699. They formed the nucleus of the Khalsa, as the first batch to receive khanda di Pahul, i.e. rites of the two-edged sword."
Panj Pyare - Wikipedia
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Isn't @Jaskaran Singh also a convert to Hinduism? @Spirit_Warrior

@Treks @Aupmanyav

Anyway, if Sikhs preach one-ness and equality, why is it that only Sikhs may recite Sri Guru Granth Sahib in Gurdwara or lead Kirtan? Why may only baptised Sikhs be the Panj Pyare? If Sikhs say all are equal in the eyes of God, why become a Sikh? Karma?
 
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ronki23

Well-Known Member
@Satnaam @Satyamavejayanti @GURSIKH @Kirran @Vinyaka @Jaskaran Singh @Sb1995@Treks @Aupmanyav @Breathe
@Spirit_Warrior

Can you please take a look at the last post #652 on this thread as its not letting me quote it and I can't copy and past on iPad? It's relevant to this thread too as it details what Sikhs believe in and how it's the same as Hinduism but I don't fully understand the terminology

Confused about Sikhism/Hinduism differences

I will tag @Poeticus but knowing him he'll post half an answer and then ask me to delete it later...
 

Kirran

Premium Member
@Satnaam @Satyamavejayanti @GURSIKH @Kirran @Vinyaka @Jaskaran Singh @Sb1995@Treks @Aupmanyav @Breathe
@Spirit_Warrior

Can you please take a look at the last post #652 on this thread as its not letting me quote it and I can't copy and past on iPad? It's relevant to this thread too as it details what Sikhs believe in and how it's the same as Hinduism but I don't fully understand the terminology

Confused about Sikhism/Hinduism differences

I will tag @Poeticus but knowing him he'll post half an answer and then ask me to delete it later...

Many of those members are no longer around, I am afraid. Even our beloved Poeticus.

As for those terms: Nirgun means formless, Sagun means with form. In many forms of Hinduism, the former is the absolute and the latter the relative nature of God. Saguna Brahman refers to God's form as Shiva, as Ganesha, as Durga and so on, and can also refer to all the universe of form, as that is also Brahman with attributes.

Nirankar, it seems, is another way to say Nirgun which is used in Sikhi.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Anyway, if Sikhs preach one-ness and equality, why is it that only Sikhs may recite Sri Guru Granth Sahib in Gurdwara or lead Kirtan? Why may only baptised Sikhs be the Panj Pyare? If Sikhs say all are equal in the eyes of God, why become a Sikh? Karma?
Because others may not be able to read it correctly in a congregation. They don't stop a non-sikh from reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib. 'Panj Pyare' was in a war situation - who will lead their side? Otherwise everyone is a Pyara. 'If Sikhs say all are equal in the eyes of God, why become a Sikh?' If one understands what Sri Guru Nanak Sahib ji and the later Gurus said, then one is already a Sikh (Sahajdharis do not keep 5K's). As you know, I am not a Sikh. I am writing according to what I understand of Sikhi.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
@Satnaam @Satyamavejayanti @GURSIKH @Kirran @Vinyaka @Jaskaran Singh @Sb1995@Treks @Aupmanyav @Breathe
@Spirit_Warrior

Can you please take a look at the last post #652 on this thread as its not letting me quote it and I can't copy and past on iPad? It's relevant to this thread too as it details what Sikhs believe in and how it's the same as Hinduism but I don't fully understand the terminology

Confused about Sikhism/Hinduism differences

I will tag @Poeticus but knowing him he'll post half an answer and then ask me to delete it later...

Didn't tag @Treks or @Vinayaka properly

What do Nirakari Sikhs believe in then if Nirakar means a formless God? Why do mainstream Sikhs not get along with them?
 

Spirit_Warrior

Active Member
Didn't tag @Treks or @Vinayaka properly

What do Nirakari Sikhs believe in then if Nirakar means a formless God? Why do mainstream Sikhs not get along with them?

Get along with who whom? I am not very aware of different sects of Sikhism. I have only heard of 'Sanatana Sikhs'and 'Naam-tari' Sikhs who don't get on with Hinduism don't really understand Hinduism, they have a stereotyped images of Hinduism as being polytheistic, superstitious and idolatrous and consider the gurus to have been against it. Sanatana Sikhs don't see any difference between Sikhism and Hinduism.
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Get along with who whom? I am not very aware of different sects of Sikhism. I have only heard of 'Sanatana Sikhs'and 'Naam-tari' Sikhs who don't get on with Hinduism don't really understand Hinduism, they have a stereotyped images of Hinduism as being polytheistic, superstitious and idolatrous and consider the gurus to have been against it. Sanatana Sikhs don't see any difference between Sikhism and Hinduism.

My Uncle who'se a renowned Hindu scholar said Sikhs believe God to be Nirakar or Nirgun, but there is a sect of Sikhi called Nirakari Sikhs who the mainstream Sikhs don't get along with; in 1984 several Nirakaris were arrested for killing Sikhs in a clash and a lot of the blame was pointed at Bhindranwale for retaliating. I don't understand what Nirakaris believe in. In 1980 Gurbachan Singh was killed by the Jathedar of Akal Takht. Does the term Nirakar apply to mainstream Sikhs too? How do Nirakari Sikhs differ from mainstream?

Also, I was told Mainstream Sikhs don't get along with Ravidassi Sikhs and apparently Ramanand Dass was murdered by Khalistanis. But the majority of Sikhs I know are Khalistanis and are nice people- every year they protest in Trafalgar Square against the injustices of 1984 and some Gurdwaras are adorned with pictures of Bhindranwale

Finally, Banda Singh Bahadur was a Hindu who converted to Sikhism but apparently Bandai Khalsa Sikhs believe he was a Guru. Again, why don't main steamers get along with them?

@Treks @Aupmanyav @Kirran @Vinayaka
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
A few spelling mistakes.
What do Nirakari Sikhs believe in then if Nirakar means a formless God? Why do mainstream Sikhs not get along with them?
Nirankari.

That is a sect which considers a person from a particular family as their guru. Sikhs do not believe in he necessity of another Guru. Sri Guru Govind Singh Sahib ji decreed that after him Sri Guru Granth Sahib will be their only guru. Nirankaris to not believe in the Sikh gurus after Sri Guru Nanak Sahib ji.
'Naam-tari'
Namdhari.

Hindus following Sikh precepts but without the 5 Ks are known as Sahajdharis (Sahaj; Natural, easy going). Namdharis believe that the baton of being a guru passed on from Guru Gobind Singh to others, Balak Singh and finally to Ram Singh. Namdharis are vegetarians.

Bandai Khalsa Sikhs is another Sikh sect who considers Baba Banda Singh Bahadur as their eleventh guru. They too are vegetarians. Other Sikh sects are Udasi, Nirmala, Radha Soami, Ravi Dasi, etc. Yet another group which has branched off from Sikhism is Sachcha Sauda. In Punjab, Sikhs have various religious orders known as Deras (Camps). Many a times they cater to particular castes and communities.
 
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ratikala

Istha gosthi
Namaskaram Ronki ji

You often hear of Hindus converting to Sikhism, particularly when a Hindu girl marries a Sikh boy or the first born son is a Sikh, but do you get the opposite occuring?

I have met Sikh's who have converted in that they attend Vaisnava temple comunities , in this instance I am talking about the UK , one instance I can think of was not because of marriage or any such but perhaps more because the girl needed a strong temple community around her , a strong ethical code to live by and the joy of experiencing the presence of the supreme .

in this country many conversions seem to come about not because the faith or tradition is at question but more that it is not strongly adhered to or practiced in the home and the convert in question simply needs to be with more spiritualy minded people .

I have met many Shik's here and the variation in beleif can be quite extreme some see Sikhi as a distinct religion others see little differece save for cultural practices and regard Hindu also as brothers in that they belive in the same allpervasive one .

as @LuisDantas ji and @Treks ji nicely point out many Sikh's and Hindus share the same attitudes of loving devotion Sikh's to Guru Granth Sahib and all Gurbani ,Hindus to their own respective texts , ....but the true comonality comes in the realisation that all such texts are revelations or writings born from the pure minds of individual Gurus and Sages all who have realised pure consciousness and oneness with the supreme , .....

with this realisation is there even realy a need for conversion ? .......unless it is purely to satisfy cultural dictates ?
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Namaskaram Ronki ji

Sikhs are not supposed to go to Hindu Mandir, Rehat Maryada states that Sikhs should not pray to idols. I've never heard of Sikhs going to Mandir but I've heard of Hindus going to Gurudwara because Sikhs welcome all faiths

Many Sikh's I have met have no problem with the Hindu Mandir or with Hindus providing they understand that as Hindus we do not worship the Deity as an Idol but as the embodiment of one or other wisdom aspect of the One Supreme ,
One very nice conversation I had recently was on the true meaning of ''Ik Onkar'' , ....in that not only does it convey the comonly held message that God is one, or that God is creator of everything , ......but that ultimatlyit conveys the message that everythig is one , ...created by that one supreme and embued with that one supreme , this same message is conveyed in Hinduism in that we beleive that the same spirit soul of the supreme , that esential truth and goodness resides within all beings and all creation , ...

thus there is no difference for those that understand this , ..a Sikh pays his respect to pure wisdom in the form of the Guru Granth Sahib We pay our respets to the Deity form who posesses these same qualities .

Many Vaisnava also shun what they deem to be Idol worship considering it to be not the correct way , ...thus we too avoid the association of the adherents of some practices and do not normaly enter their temples .
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Namaskaram Ronki ji

Here are some links r.e Sikh-non Sikh strains


The British Sikh men trying to prevent inter-faith marriages


As a Hindu myself I can understand why a Hindu would convert to Sikhism: the philosophy and principles which are unity of all religions and serving and defending those in need regardless of faith. However, why would a Sikh convert as most see Hinduism as polytheistic. What do Sikhs pray to at Hindu Mandir?

thank you for the interesting links , ....I think we have a problem here which is more cultural than it is religious , .....I quote from one artical , .....
''But not Sim Kaur. One of the very few Sikh women willing to speak about her experience, she says: “Our gurdwaras are run by men and the protesters are all men. All the cancellations I’ve heard about have been of Sikh women marrying non-Sikh men or men not born into the Sikh religion and I doubt that’s a coincidence. I do believe it’s a faith issue, but it’s also about gender and race.”

As you know it is indian culture that the bride addopts the customs and cultural behaviors of the groom , this I assume is equaly true amongs Sikhs ? .... particuarly Punjabi Sikh's many of whom I have met seem to share very simmilar expextations that the Bride follow the Husbands instructions and his religious affiliations , ..they are thinking that this is important because the children will then be brought up in the same way , ....

I think there are many problems here in the UK where both Hindus and Sikh'sare affraid of loosing their cultural identities , on onehand thwy want to be a part of western society but on the other they want to preserve their own values.

I can only say that this would be much like a parent fearing that if her child were to marry an atheist that both that child and any future offspring would loose their sence of religosity and become materialy absorbed .

the Girl interveiwed stressed that these objections raised were over instances of women marrying out of the tradition ,
a strict Hindu may also be worried about this as the woman then traditionaly enters the family of the groom and is under the direction of the grooms family , therefore there is allways question of the upbringing of the children as they will be brought up in the faith of the Grooms family , ....this is not nececarily so in this country as now many marriages are by choice therefor there would be mutual agreement about the education of children , ..but still to a faith comunity this will inevitably cause concerns .However stoping marriage ceremonies with threats of violence does suggest some deeper undercurrent of fear .

I had freinds in Coventry and at one time there was quite a bit of cross cultural violence , this says more about the fear indemic in society and the ignorance as to the true purport of our respective faiths
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
In Delhi, marriage between a Sikh and a Hindu, boy or girl will not even raise an eye-brow (as you know some of the Sikhs are clean shaven or trim their beards and mustaches. As I have mentioned in the forum, my son was on the verge of marrying Sikh girls twice, had introduced the girls to me. It is just a chance that it did not happen. The girl in the first instance was a sweet little package. But finally, as you know, 'Hui hai wahi jo Ram rachi rakha' (What happens is already ordained by God).
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Wha do Nirankaris believe that makes them at odds with orthodox Sikhs?



Why don't Sikhs like the Ravidass Sikhs to the extent a Ravidassi was killed by Khalistanis?

Do you still get Bandai Sikhs?
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
Another thing is like Islam's 5 pillars, Sikhism has 3 pillars and 5 principals. Also Sikhs believe in one God.

Hindus on the other hand have many Gods and idolatry. Although one can argue there is only one God and the others are Demi Gods.

Why did Sikhs and Hindus marry if the surface beliefs are so different. I guess it's karma and dharma that unifies them.

It sounds strange Sanatan Sikhs have 330 million Gods but only 10-12 human Gurus
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I think in the various posts we have given answers to all your questions, only that you do not ever seem understand them. I would suggest that you revisit the topics that you yourself started and read carefully.
 

Spirit_Warrior

Active Member
Another thing is like Islam's 5 pillars, Sikhism has 3 pillars and 5 principals. Also Sikhs believe in one God.

Hindus on the other hand have many Gods and idolatry. Although one can argue there is only one God and the others are Demi Gods.

Why did Sikhs and Hindus marry if the surface beliefs are so different. I guess it's karma and dharma that unifies them.

It sounds strange Sanatan Sikhs have 330 million Gods but only 10-12 human Gurus

I think you need to understand Sikhism as a product of its time -- that is India was under Muslim invasions and many northern parts of India were colonised by Muslims; the state in which Guru Nanak was born was ruled by Muslim kings. Guru Nanak also had Muslim teachers --- so it only natural to expect that Guru Nanak absorbed a lot of Muslim ideas in addition to his own Hindu ideas from his own religion. He then spent time in the company of the Bhakti saints, which was an eclectic mix of vaishnavas, shaivas, shaktas and even sufis -- so we can see why Nanak developed these ideas of egalitarianism, of "there being no Hindu and no Sikh" and uniting all religious groups by devotion to only one God. You can also argue he adopted many of the Muslim organisational practices --- like as you say 3 pillars, 5 prayers a day(you will not meet few Sikhs who practice this) and the greater need for integrating all followers of Sikhi through community, such as the community kitchen(langar)

But the heart of Sikhism remained Hindu e.g. you say it rejected belief in demigods and Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. In fact it didn't, Sikhs actually believe they exist, but rather it promoted a nameless(sat naam) one attribute Nirguna Brahman(like Advaita) that all religious groups could worship that transcends everything. So the liberal attitude was adopted of calling that ONE Hari, Shiva, Har Har, to even Allah to unite all the diverse religious groups --- Hinduism allows for this, BUT definitely not Islam. An orthodox Muslim would never accept Shiva or Hari is another for Allah, whereas many Hindus and Sikhs wouldn't bat an eyelid. An orthodox Muslim would never accept any of the Hindu demigods or gods exist, but a Hindu or Sikhs might accept Djins exist etc

There is greater affinity between Hindus and Sikhs, than there is between Muslims and Sikhs.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Another thing is like Islam's 5 pillars, Sikhism has 3 pillars and 5 principals. Also Sikhs believe in one God.

Hindus on the other hand have many Gods and idolatry. Although one can argue there is only one God and the others are Demi Gods.

Why did Sikhs and Hindus marry if the surface beliefs are so different. I guess it's karma and dharma that unifies them.

It sounds strange Sanatan Sikhs have 330 million Gods but only 10-12 human Gurus
The number of gods one believes in is a big deal, a "significantly different belief" by a Muslim perspective, I suppose.

By a Hindu or enlightened Sikh perspective, though? I very much doubt it.

It is a rare and IMO very misguided Dharma, that one that teaches people to be wary of whether people are taught about the "right" or the "right number" of deities.

In a sense, idolatry only exists and is in some sense significant from a Muslim perspective because they over-emphasize god belief. Hindus are simply better prepared to deal with the reality of god-beliefs and their role in religion.
 
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