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Have people forgotten about 9/11?
- Thread starter tomspug
- Start date
I second Sey's question, Joe. I'm curious what you think were the reasons we were attacked.
Joe_Stocks
Back from the Dead
Hi Seeker,
You have to ask yourself, would 7 years without a terrorist attack come without a price? I would say, of course not. The cost is the thousands who volunteered to put their life on the line for us back at home. The benefit is us having this conversation in a secure homeland. I would call that a success.
You have to ask yourself, would 7 years without a terrorist attack come without a price? I would say, of course not. The cost is the thousands who volunteered to put their life on the line for us back at home. The benefit is us having this conversation in a secure homeland. I would call that a success.
The Seeker
Once upon a time....
Looking at it from an American point of view, it may be considered a success. But do you think the Iraqis consider the past 7 years a success?
A question for you. Do you think that we would have had another attack here if we hadn't invaded Iraq?
Joe_Stocks
Back from the Dead
Hi Seyroni and Sunstone,
Well, you have to read The Al Qeada Reader by Raymond Ibrahim. It contains the writings of UBL and his second in command. UBL is pretty clear about his actions and he is pretty clear why; it is exactly what Muhammed did. He goes on and on berating the Islamic nations that are talking with us and says, "What did Mahummed do?" UBL believes Muhammed set a pretty clear example of what you do to your religious and political adversaries and he intends to do that to us.
Well, you have to read The Al Qeada Reader by Raymond Ibrahim. It contains the writings of UBL and his second in command. UBL is pretty clear about his actions and he is pretty clear why; it is exactly what Muhammed did. He goes on and on berating the Islamic nations that are talking with us and says, "What did Mahummed do?" UBL believes Muhammed set a pretty clear example of what you do to your religious and political adversaries and he intends to do that to us.
Joe_Stocks
Back from the Dead
Hi Seeker,
Dictatorship to elected parilament and conducting military operations on their own. I would consider that a major success. The costs have been enormous, but so have the gains.
I am not sure. I am pretty sure that Iraq would have used to plan attacks on the U.S. homeland. And the terrorists that are fighting and dying in Iraq would be doing that istead.
Dictatorship to elected parilament and conducting military operations on their own. I would consider that a major success. The costs have been enormous, but so have the gains.
I am not sure. I am pretty sure that Iraq would have used to plan attacks on the U.S. homeland. And the terrorists that are fighting and dying in Iraq would be doing that istead.
Switzerland and Finland haven't been attacked either, JS, but that's not because they are actively fighting 'Islamofascists,' it's because they've given no-one cause to attack them. Remove the cause and you remove the enmity.
Our occupation of Iraq; our destruction and killing of civilians, is creating more hatred and more experienced terrorists than ever existed on 9/11. Why would they bother to come over here to attack us again? -- we're conveniently hanging out right in their back yard.
Wouldn't it have been better to handle the 9/11 affair the same way we handled the 1993 attack on the WTC? In '93 we investigated, discovered the perpetrators, and arrested them. No muss, no fuss, no war.
Our occupation of Iraq; our destruction and killing of civilians, is creating more hatred and more experienced terrorists than ever existed on 9/11. Why would they bother to come over here to attack us again? -- we're conveniently hanging out right in their back yard.
Wouldn't it have been better to handle the 9/11 affair the same way we handled the 1993 attack on the WTC? In '93 we investigated, discovered the perpetrators, and arrested them. No muss, no fuss, no war.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
I think there are millions of Iraqis trying to take back control of their own country, having nothing to do with any approval of us or their position on "Islamofascism."
It is mind-boggling to me that you accept a term coined specifically for the purpose of engendering hatred toward Islam and then think that millions of Iraqis share your views, let alone your propaganda.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
Fascinating (in a morbid way) how he asked you what you think the Iraqis think, and you answered with what you think.
Joe_Stocks
Back from the Dead
Hi Seyroni,
I am sure you are familiar with Theo an Gogh. This type of thing is happening more and more in Europe.
I am sure you are familiar with Theo an Gogh. This type of thing is happening more and more in Europe.
kai
ragamuffin
what scripture?
Al-Qaeda's objectives include the end of foreign influence in Muslim countries and the creation of a new Islamic caliphate.
Joe_Stocks
Back from the Dead
Hi lilithu,
In one sense you are completely correct; their opinion of us doesn't really matter. They could hate us more than anything, I couldn't care less as long as they don't strap bombs to their chests and hijack planes.
You are completely wrong about them hating Islamofascism. There is an obstacle to them putting their country together (I'm sure you believe it is us) and that is the actions of Islamofascists. They are the ones that want Iraq to be a failed state.
Oh please, don't be so dramatic. Who is talking about hating Islam, I detest Islamofascists, the Muslims that aren't killing and raping, I have no problem with them.
Don't be such a drama queen.
In one sense you are completely correct; their opinion of us doesn't really matter. They could hate us more than anything, I couldn't care less as long as they don't strap bombs to their chests and hijack planes.
You are completely wrong about them hating Islamofascism. There is an obstacle to them putting their country together (I'm sure you believe it is us) and that is the actions of Islamofascists. They are the ones that want Iraq to be a failed state.
Oh please, don't be so dramatic. Who is talking about hating Islam, I detest Islamofascists, the Muslims that aren't killing and raping, I have no problem with them.
Don't be such a drama queen.
Yes, we've stirred up quite a nest of hornets; created a subculture of hatred of all things western, a society of angry men ready to go off at the slightest provocation.
We kill their families. We destroy their lives, property and dignity and then we're surprised and angry when they become radicalized and lash out at us.
If we stop messing with them they'll stop messing with us. We are the cause of the problem.
We kill their families. We destroy their lives, property and dignity and then we're surprised and angry when they become radicalized and lash out at us.
If we stop messing with them they'll stop messing with us. We are the cause of the problem.
Joe_Stocks
Back from the Dead
Hi Seyorni,
Oh please. What did Theo van Gogh do? He is to blame for his murder. So, the people that died on 9/11 deserved to die, they were to blame for the attacks. This is what you actually believe. Islamic civilization is currently a failed civilization. Totalitarianism, dictatorship, hatred of women, suppression of speech and religious freedom. These are the hallmarks of Islamic civilization. They have failed themselves. And one of the hardest things to do is look into the mirror and admit you are wrong. So they blame the U.S., the Great Satan. And you fell for it big time. They create their own problems and you want us to feel bad about it. I'm not playing that game. They created their own problems and that drives liberals crazy so you have to tell us that we are to blame for the problems in the Muslim world.
Oh please. What did Theo van Gogh do? He is to blame for his murder. So, the people that died on 9/11 deserved to die, they were to blame for the attacks. This is what you actually believe. Islamic civilization is currently a failed civilization. Totalitarianism, dictatorship, hatred of women, suppression of speech and religious freedom. These are the hallmarks of Islamic civilization. They have failed themselves. And one of the hardest things to do is look into the mirror and admit you are wrong. So they blame the U.S., the Great Satan. And you fell for it big time. They create their own problems and you want us to feel bad about it. I'm not playing that game. They created their own problems and that drives liberals crazy so you have to tell us that we are to blame for the problems in the Muslim world.
I'm not excusing terrorists or murderers. I'm trying to explain how and why they became that way.
Van Gogh was provocative, loudmouthed, and good at ******* people off. His anti-Islamic film Submission had recently been televised. Bouyeri, radicalized for some of the reasons I mentioned previously, appears to have been not only angry but mentally unstable.
There was no excuse for Theo's murder, but there was an explanation. Punishing offenders without trying to understand why they became delinquent does nothing to curb further delinquency.
Van Gogh was provocative, loudmouthed, and good at ******* people off. His anti-Islamic film Submission had recently been televised. Bouyeri, radicalized for some of the reasons I mentioned previously, appears to have been not only angry but mentally unstable.
There was no excuse for Theo's murder, but there was an explanation. Punishing offenders without trying to understand why they became delinquent does nothing to curb further delinquency.
Joe_Stocks
Back from the Dead
Hi Seyorni,
This is truly hilarious. You have nothing but venom for van Gogh but you are seeking to understand and explain his killers.
Understand this: the killer of van Gogh are just like the other terrorists, they kill people that disagree with them. This is what their sick culture has produced. Yet you cannot condemn a culture that produces such evil but can lambaste a culture that values the free exchange of ideas. Up is down, good is evil, terrorists are the victims. Nice world you have there.
This is truly hilarious. You have nothing but venom for van Gogh but you are seeking to understand and explain his killers.
Understand this: the killer of van Gogh are just like the other terrorists, they kill people that disagree with them. This is what their sick culture has produced. Yet you cannot condemn a culture that produces such evil but can lambaste a culture that values the free exchange of ideas. Up is down, good is evil, terrorists are the victims. Nice world you have there.
I'm not condemning Van Gogh! Where'd you get that? I'm just stating facts. He was widely known as a firebrand who didn't pull any punches.
And, yes, I seek to understand and explain his killers.
How can you effectively deal with a problem if you don't understand it? Sure, you can shoot or arrest everyone who is problematic, but without understanding what's generating the miscreants the problem will only persist.
And, yes, I seek to understand and explain his killers.
How can you effectively deal with a problem if you don't understand it? Sure, you can shoot or arrest everyone who is problematic, but without understanding what's generating the miscreants the problem will only persist.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
I marvel at how you continue to repeat this ridiculous statement. The term was made-up by Americans in order to justify the killing of tens of thousands of Muslim civilians. Even if the average Iraqi resented al Qaeda, they would not think in such terms.
And yet you cannot distinguish between the two of them in your war! Whether you hate them or not, you have no problem with killing tens of thousands of them for your own sense of security. Their lives obviously don't matter to you.
It still remains that you did not answer the question asked.