Have They Experienced God or Not?

[Rick O'Shez]

I stay true to God

But what does actually mean? You stay true to your beliefs about God wants?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

As far as I can tell the differences in the quality of the experiences were entirely about my state of mind at the time and my interpretations. I'm reasonably certain the connections I felt, though profound and deeply meaningful to me, were pure fabrications of my own mind.

Yes, that's much the same as I feel about the experiences I've had. Clearly people do have experiences which might be called "spiritual", but I think confusion arises when people start making assumptions about them, based on wishful thinking and a pre-existing belief. It's partly about language of course, the way people think and talk about these things.

 

[Cephus]

It's a good question. Such experiences are inherently subjective, and people interpret them according to their beliefs, so there is no way of knowing that I can see. It just comes back to what people believe or assume.

And that's the problem. While yes, these are inherently subjective experiences, the people who have them have no way of verifying the experiences in any meaningful way. In fact, in most so-called religious experiences, something happens to an individual and they arbitrarily assign some god as cause without having the slightest means of demonstrating that god is actually responsible. They have adopted a view which is emotionally comforting, even if it is entirely irrational. They can't show that their experience happened the way they describe and don't even make a credible attempt to discover if their belief about the experience is remotely valid.

 

[SkepticX]

Yes, that's much the same as I feel about the experiences I've had. Clearly people do have experiences which might be called "spiritual", but I think confusion arises when people start making assumptions about them, based on wishful thinking and a pre-existing belief. It's partly about language of course, the way people think and talk about these things.

It's a general problem. Most people seem far too impressed with their own perceptions and memories, neither of which are anywhere near as reliable as people generally seem to think. Add to that an Ultimate Authority (also presumed) to validate that overconfidence. It's a pretty tight little self-affirmation feedback loop.

 

[Cephus]

Yes, that's much the same as I feel about the experiences I've had. Clearly people do have experiences which might be called "spiritual", but I think confusion arises when people start making assumptions about them, based on wishful thinking and a pre-existing belief. It's partly about language of course, the way people think and talk about these things.

You're right, of course, but that doesn't mean that the way people talk about these things is rational, in fact, it's anything but. Nobody can actually define "spiritual" with any validity. How do we test the "spiritual"? How do we determine what is "natural" and what is "spiritual"? It isn't about showing one experience belongs in one camp and another experience belongs in another, it's all about feelings and emotions and that's a ****-poor way of handling question in the real world.

 

[Muffled]

But what does actually mean? You stay true to your beliefs about God wants?

I believe that is what it means.

 

[Muffled]

Yes, that's much the same as I feel about the experiences I've had. Clearly people do have experiences which might be called "spiritual", but I think confusion arises when people start making assumptions about them, based on wishful thinking and a pre-existing belief. It's partly about language of course, the way people think and talk about these things.

I believe the mind likes to think everything comes from it because that is ego boosting.