Have you ever thought of the Chosen People and the Promised Land?

[Deeje]

If Canaan belonged to Israelis then where do the Canaanites belong?

Canaan was cursed by God for an unnamed sin in connection with Noah after the flood. The Canaanite descendants apparently inherited his base personality traits, being noted for their depravity. They are not Israelites who were descendants of Abraham.

"Even the people Israel, to whom God had given the land for them to enjoy as landowners, were told by Jehovah that they were not actually owners of it but only held it in trust. He said concerning the sale of a family land estate: “So the land should not be sold in perpetuity, because the land is mine. For you are alien residents and settlers from my standpoint.” (Le 25:23) God had ousted the Canaanites from the land for their disgusting practices. He warned he would also take away all title from Israel and drive them out of the land if they followed such practices, and when they later did, they were sent into exile. (Le 18:24-30; 25:18, 19; 26:27-33; Jer 52:27) After 70 years of desolation of their land, from 607 to 537 B.C.E., God mercifully reestablished them, but this time under Gentile domination. Eventually, in 70 C.E., the Romans completely destroyed Jerusalem and scattered its people.

Within the nation, tribes were assigned sections of the land or cities inside the boundaries of other tribes. Priests and Levites had cities with pasture grounds. (Jos 15-21) In turn, within the tribes families were allotted inheritances. These divisions became smaller as families subdivided their own allotments because of increase in numbers. This resulted in thorough cultivation and use of the land. Inheritances were not allowed to circulate from one tribe to another. To prevent this, women who inherited land (because there were no living brothers) had to marry within the tribe to hold their inheritance.—Nu 36:1-12.

If a man died without having a son, his brother (or, if no brothers, his nearest of kin) could marry his widow to bring forth offspring from her. The man marrying the widow could also repurchase the dead man’s inheritance, if it had been sold. (Ru 4:9, 10, 13-17) The woman’s firstborn would take the name, not of his actual father, but of the widow’s first husband, thus possessing the land inheritance and keeping the man’s name alive over his inheritance in Israel.—De 25:5, 6."

Landowner — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Where these 'Israelis' self-hating Canaanites, ethnically, they are Canaanites with a Canaanite language worshipping Canaanite deities ( El & Yahweh), Israeli archaeologically is unable to distinguish 'Canaanite' with 'Israelite' and there was never an ethnically distinct “Canaanite” population that the “Israelites” displaced.

Zionism is an invalid claim.

The origins of the Canaanites answers this question.

Canaan — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Magus]

Canaanites are north-west Semitics , Canaan language is a Semitic langauge near-identical to Hebrew, thus the Bible incorrectly puts them under 'Ham' , indeed, in the Septuagint it corrects this , which reads 'Canaan, son of Shem'.

Philistines are also incorrectly labelled under Ham as son of Mizraim ( Egypt).

It appears the children of Shem represent Elam (Persians), Asshur (Assyrians), Arphaxad (Chaldeans), Lud (Lydians), Aram (Armenians)

One should note that 'Judea & Israel' appear under the Sons of Canaan as 'Sodom & Gomorrah' , the author of Genesis where obviously aware they where Canaanites.

 

[arthra]

Have you ever thought of the Chosen People and the Promised Land?

I've thought of the "Chosen People"... Regardless of race or nationality or origin, they are the ones who have "chosen" and made clear where the Promised Land lies... It is in our hearts and we can visit it daily. Outwardly I made pilgrimage to the "Promised Land" and it is still before me now as if I had never left...

 

[Native]

Unlike faithful Abraham (Abram) and unfaithful Adam, unlike faithful Sarah and unfaithful Eve, Unfaithful Adam and Eve lost the promised land ( to live forever on Earth )starting in a beautiful paradisical Garden of Eden.
Whereas with faithful Abraham and faithful Sarah God promised through them the Earth becoming a Promised Land ( a land meaning an Earth flowing with milk and honey ). Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on Earth for the 'healing' of earth's nations as promised at Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18; Revelation 22:2.

Adam and Eve is specifically connected to the very creation story which deals with the entire creation and not of any specific land on the Earth. The "Garden of Eden" resembles the very cosmic location from where the cosmic creation of the ancient known world takes place (in the Milky Way center) and it is not a location on the Earth.

The concept of Garden of Eden shall not be confused with later historical fights for land and it is very unlikely and unthinkable that any fair god or goddess would give land on the behalf of other tribes. This is a human psychological way of justifying attacks on other people´s land, referring to a god.

The "healing of Earth´s nations" and the "return of the Genesis´ tree of life" will, IMO, only come when all humans re-discover that we all have the same Story of Creation and that all religions stems from the same cosmic telling, namely:

That we all live on the same planet Earth, in the same Solar System, in the same Milky Way galaxy and in the same local part of the observable Universe. This is our common cultural Creation Story and it is embedded in all religions and this creation of course is made by the same divine forces, what ever we humans calls these in different cultures.

Read more here:
Comparative religion - Wikipedia
Comparative mythology - Wikipedia
Creation myth - Wikipedia
Dying-and-rising god - Wikipedia
Ancient Science. The Ancient and native Way of Knowledge

 

[Jumi]

I don't believe in any race or tribe being superior, or any location on earth being more important.

 

[Native]

I don't believe in any race or tribe being superior, or any location on earth being more important.

Agreed.

 

[DavidFirth]

If Abraham came from Ur, why does Gen 14:13 ethnically identify Abraham as a Hebrew , which means 'People from the Eber Nari', that is 'Canaan' The ethnicity of the Hebrews is described in Ezekiel

Ezekiel 16:3
And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.

Genesis 10:15 - Amorite and Hittite are sons of Canaan.

Ezekiel was speaking spiritually. Read the entire chapter, it's obvious.

The fact that Abram was born in Ur totally destroys any theory of him having been a Canaanite.

 

[DavidFirth]

I don't believe in any race or tribe being superior, or any location on earth being more important.

The Hebrews were chosen by God to bear His name and given the law.

This in no way makes them superior. They were simply chosen by God out of all the other people in the world to be a people dedicated totally to Him. Of course they didn't keep the law and we learned through Israel that no one can be saved by the law.

 

[LuisDantas]

Have you ever thought of the Chosen People and the Promised Land?

Not really. It is too odd an idea for me to give it much thought.

 

[YmirGF]

Not really. It is too odd an idea for me to give it much thought.

That was my first thought, Luis.

Then I saw this nugget from @arthra to which I can genuinely relate.

Have you ever thought of the Chosen People and the Promised Land?

I've thought of the "Chosen People"... Regardless of race or nationality or origin, they are the ones who have "chosen" and made clear where the Promised Land lies... It is in our hearts and we can visit it daily. Outwardly I made pilgrimage to the "Promised Land" and it is still before me now as if I had never left...

Hehe. Some of us never leave that place within our "hearts", @arthra

 

[sayak83]

Hi Brethren,

Abram = Adam, Sarah = Eve and the Promised Land = Garden of Eden living in the company of?

There is and has never been a chosen people or a promised land.

 

[Akivah]

I don't believe in any race or tribe being superior, or any location on earth being more important.

Agreed. People that think the phrase "Chosen people" implies superiority are incorrect.

 

[Quintessence]

The idea of a "chosen people" and a "promised land" is not a tale told by my tradition, so naturally I wouldn't give it much thought. I'm not sure what those phrases would mean within the context of Druidry.

To take a stab at it, Arthurian legend is sometimes sung by the bards as a source of inspiration for contemporary Druids. And in those tales, the Once and Future King represents something of a promise. It is said that Arthur will return to the lands in a time of great need. Some use this mythos to inspire environmental activism, feeling they are "chosen" for this duty in this time of need. They want to "promise" the land will be there for future generations, with beautiful wild places and all.

 

[Flankerl]

or any location on earth being more important.

I disagree. Pretty much everyone has to disagree.
The Suez Canal or Panama Canal are smaller but far more important than for example the Kamchatka peninsula.

I am not going to address anything religious in this thread. Far too much Christianity for my taste swirling around.

 

[Magus]

Ezekiel was speaking spiritually. Read the entire chapter, it's obvious.

The fact that Abram was born in Ur totally destroys any theory of him having been a Canaanite.

Are you saying Abraham and Nebuchadnezzar have the same ethnicity?
The Hebrew word 'Ur' (אוּר) ( AUR ) means flame, light or fire and most likely refers to the deity or a cult they belonged too.

Hebrew (עִבְרִי) (OBRI) is a patronymic form of 'Eber (עֵבֶר) (OBR)
from the phrase 'Eber Nahar' (beyond the river)

Ezra 4:20
There have been mighty kings also over Jerusalem, which have ruled over all countries beyond the river

Ezra 6:6
Now therefore, Tatnai, governor beyond the river,
Eber-Nari - Wikipedia


Ezra 2:2 depicts 'Hebrews' being freed from the captivity of the'Chaldean' king, Nebuchadnezzar and the Persian king, writing a decree to allow these captives to settle in Canaan, therefore the origin of Abraham and the covenant.

Ezra also refers to the captives as 'chief of the fathers' ( Ab Ro'sh) (אָב רֹאשׁ), identical in meaning with 'Abram.


All of this is in the Bible, that parts you don't read.

 

[DavidFirth]

Are you saying Abraham and Nebuchadnezzar have the same ethnicity?
The Hebrew word 'Ur' (אוּר) ( AUR ) means flame, light or fire and most likely refers to the deity or a cult they belonged too.

Hebrew (עִבְרִי) (OBRI) is a patronymic form of 'Eber (עֵבֶר) (OBR)
from the phrase 'Eber Nahar' (beyond the river)

Ezra 4:20
There have been mighty kings also over Jerusalem, which have ruled over all countries beyond the river

Ezra 6:6
Now therefore, Tatnai, governor beyond the river,
Eber-Nari - Wikipedia


Ezra 2:2 depicts 'Hebrews' being freed from the captivity of the'Chaldean' king, Nebuchadnezzar and the Persian king, writing a decree to allow these captives to settle in Canaan, therefore the origin of Abraham and the covenant.

Ezra also refers to the captives as 'chief of the fathers' ( Ab Ro'sh) (אָב רֹאשׁ), identical in meaning with 'Abram.


All of this is in the Bible, that parts you don't read.

How about the fact that Genesis makes it abundantly clear? Why look elsewhere and try to twist scripture to your liking? Why do people do that?

 

[Magus]

How about the fact that Genesis makes it abundantly clear? Why look elsewhere and try to twist scripture to your liking? Why do people do that?

The Book of Genesis is the most confusing Book in the whole Torah, compare Genesis 26:34 to Genesis 36:2-3.

Does Genesis make the ethnicity of Abraham abundantly clear? what exactly am i twisting?

Ur of Chaldee in Hebrew is 'AUR KSD', similar to the son of Shem 'ARP KSD' , there is another Chaldea ( near the Black Sea) , also called Chalybes from Khaly-wa (Land of Halys) , this can suggests they came from the Black Sea region. I have some evidence for this how ever. it is extremely confusing.

Genesis 2:11 - River Pison - Land of Havilah ( HUILE)
West Georgia - River Phasin - Land of Colchia ( EUILE )

According to Josephus, 'Seth' was 'Sesostris' , whom conquered the Scythians & Thracians and came to the River Pison (Hdt. 2.103) Seth is Aramaic for 'Six', in Hebrew is 'Shesh', ( SES ) Ses-Ostris whom also appears to be 'Shishak' 1 Kings 14:25, in Greek as 'Sousakim' ( Σοῦσα ), capital city of Darius I , whom historically conquered the Scythians & Thracians

Eber / Hebron - Iberia ( Georgia)
Oni ( Georgia)

This seems to suggests they are Eastern Europeans from around the Black Sea around West Georgia, maybe Jews have always being Eastern Europeans.

 

[DavidFirth]

Abram was from Ur. He was not a Canaanite. That's clear enough. I don't need all of the jargon you spewed above.

 

[Magus]

Abram was from Ur. He was not a Canaanite. That's clear enough. I don't need all of the jargon you spewed above.

You can't even read Hebrew so why bother reading it, the Hebrew word is 'AWR' ( אוּר ) very same word as 'AWR' (אוּר) meaning FIRE

Jeremiah 38:18
But if thou wilt not go forth to the king of Babylon's princes, then shall this city be given into the hand of the Chaldeans, and they shall burn it with fire
Daniel 2:2
Then the king commanded to call the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans
Daniel 4:7 ( Priests ? )
Then came in the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers:
Daniel 5:30
In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain.

If he was a Babylonian and not a Canaanite, why is he called a 'Hebrew' , Is he from Eberia (Georgia), or from Eber Nari ( Canaan) and why is 'KSD' a son of Nahor (Nairi / Armenian Highlands) also known as ' Khaldini ' (more Chaldees).

There is even a deity called 'Chaldee' or Khaldi , one of the three chief deities of Urartu ( 'Ararat' )
Ḫaldi - Wikipedia

So who are these people?

 

[Native]

Canaanites are north-west Semitics , Canaan language is a Semitic langauge near-identical to Hebrew, thus the Bible incorrectly puts them under 'Ham' , indeed, in the Septuagint it corrects this , which reads 'Canaan, son of Shem'.

Philistines are also incorrectly labelled under Ham as son of Mizraim ( Egypt).

It appears the children of Shem represent Elam (Persians), Asshur (Assyrians), Arphaxad (Chaldeans), Lud (Lydians), Aram (Armenians)

One should note that 'Judea & Israel' appear under the Sons of Canaan as 'Sodom & Gomorrah' , the author of Genesis where obviously aware they where Canaanites.

There is a huge mixup of the Abrahamic Religions - Abrahamic religions - Wikipedia - where ancient myths and historical tellings makes it difficult to decide in which land something took part. Besides this, there is a huge Sumerian/Babylonian/Mesopotamian mythical influence in the Abrahamic religions which have made a very fuzzy picture of both the ancient myths and some historical references.

When speaking of "ancient myths" in the Abrahamic religions, these have lost most of its cosmological meanings because of banning of worshipping images, which in many cases symbolizes astronomical and cosmological informations.

That is IMO: Ancient Myths contains real astronomical and cosmological tellings of how the creation takes place and how the cosmogonical world picture is observed.