Having issues with Sikh prayers...

[Chickie17]

Hello, I am a young woman searching for spirituality. I have found interest in Sikhism, and looked at some of the prayers. To be honest, I didn't like what I interpreted. They said that skeptics would die, and those who worshipped idols were "stupid asses".

I am wondering, how to reconcile this with my belief in freedom of religion, and the fact that everyone in my family, who I love very much, is an atheist. Is there some other way to interpret these prayers? Thanks.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

I've been to the Golden temple twice. I loved the Bhajans, the pond and the way that people of all differences could sit down and eat together free.
It is one of the BEST theistic religions, though now sadly many are making this faith highly conservative.
It started out as a very pacifist relgion, but then after two gurus were slaughtered by Islamic leaders in India, it became a bit more militarized in terms of defending one's people and women's honor that the Islamic rulers would play with.

But which book did you interpret?
Or which song?
The Islamic regime in India brought the ideas of hatred towards atheists, condemning idols, etc. Idol worship is a big part of indian tradition.
But if scriptures really speak such, I'd rather stay away from it.

 

[Chickie17]

The prayers were in Punjabi, but they were also apparently essential to being a Sikh.

I don't know if I can pray about those things.

 

[Treks]

Hello, I am a young woman searching for spirituality. I have found interest in Sikhism, and looked at some of the prayers. To be honest, I didn't like what I interpreted. They said that skeptics would die, and those who worshipped idols were "stupid asses".

I am wondering, how to reconcile this with my belief in freedom of religion, and the fact that everyone in my family, who I love very much, is an atheist. Is there some other way to interpret these prayers? Thanks.

Can you remember which prayers you read? Was it Japji Sahib?

Really, you can interpret anything the way you want to.

In Sikhi, everyone dies. The devoted Sikh 'dies while alive'. The devoted Sikh, by dying while alive (eliminating ego-self), avoids the pain of physical death. It is not a death for them so much as a transition; they realise everything is One, so nothing is really dead, and nothing is really alive; it's all just that One doing Its thing. People who don't realise this (the skeptics) are more likely to 'die' i.e. suffer with fear and misery at/towards death as everything they treasured (life) runs away from them and they are left with nothing.

About idols; well, yes, Sikhi teaches that worshipping idols is useless and pointless.

 

[Chickie17]

People do things I find pointless, I just don't like to make fun of it.

 

[Treks]

People do things I find pointless, I just don't like to make fun of it.

Please provide a reference for where Gurbani 'makes fun' of idolatry so we can examine it.

Also, what you're calling 'prayers' aren't prayers in the traditional sense. They are poetry and songs and their daily repetition by Sikhs is far closer to meditation than to prayer.

 

[GURSIKH]

Hello, I am a young woman searching for spirituality. I have found interest in Sikhism, and looked at some of the prayers. To be honest, I didn't like what I interpreted. They said that skeptics would die, and those who worshipped idols were "stupid asses".

I am wondering, how to reconcile this with my belief in freedom of religion, and the fact that everyone in my family, who I love very much, is an atheist. Is there some other way to interpret these prayers? Thanks.

Hi Chickie , as Treks said ,you have to specify the prayers in question .

 

[Chickie17]

I'm trying to find them, so please be patient, it may have been an odd translation.

I think it was the evening prayer, Rehraas Sahib.

 

[arjansingh111]

Hello, I am a young woman searching for spirituality. I have found interest in Sikhism, and looked at some of the prayers. To be honest, I didn't like what I interpreted. They said that skeptics would die, and those who worshipped idols were "stupid asses".

I am wondering, how to reconcile this with my belief in freedom of religion, and the fact that everyone in my family, who I love very much, is an atheist. Is there some other way to interpret these prayers? Thanks.

Dear sister I am very sad to hear about your inconvenience your question about how to relate Sikhi to your freedom of believe is that Sikhism is a religion that doesn't saya anyone as evil.Sikhi main aspect of teachings is that everyone Christian,muslims,hindus,buddhis,jews and atheists are all one.Sikhism preaches equality among gender and class of people.Sikhism doesn't have a gender or professional job discrimination.Sikhism is all about freedom of live and the love towards God hope this help sister if there is anything that I could help you pls fell free to message me

 

[Treks]

Perhaps the OP means the fourth shabad of Rehras Sahib:

Raag Goojaree, Fourth Mehl:

O humble servant of the Lord, O True Guru, O True Primal Being: I offer my humble prayer to You, O Guru.

I am a mere insect, a worm. O True Guru, I seek Your Sanctuary. Please be merciful, and bless me with the Light of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||

O my Best Friend, O Divine Guru, please enlighten me with the Name of the Lord.

Through the Guru's Teachings, the Naam is my breath of life. The Kirtan of the Lord's Praise is my life's occupation. ||1||Pause||

The servants of the Lord have the greatest good fortune; they have faith in the Lord, and a longing for the Lord.

Obtaining the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, they are satisfied; joining the Sangat, the Blessed Congregation, their virtues shine forth. ||2||

Those who have not obtained the Sublime Essence of the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, are most unfortunate; they are led away by the Messenger of Death.

Those who have not sought the Sanctuary of the True Guru and the Sangat, the Holy Congregation; cursed are their lives, and cursed are their hopes of life. ||3||

Those humble servants of the Lord who have attained the Company of the True Guru, have such pre-ordained destiny inscribed on their foreheads.

Blessed, blessed is the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, where the Lord's Essence is obtained. Meeting with His humble servant, O Nanak, the Light of the Naam shines forth. ||4||4||

​

And part of Rehras is Benti Chaupai, which is here http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Chaupai_sahib:_Translation_and_Transliteration, and says this:

The fools consider Him a stone, for He does not know the Profound Mystery that is God. He calls Shiva, The Eternal Lord, and does not know the secret of the Formless Lord. (16)​

​

 

[Treks]

I didn't say anything, just providing links.

Benti Chaupai is usually said to be written by Guru Gobind Singh and is found in the Dasam Granth. Sikhs are divided about the authorship of Dasam Granth and a few question the authorship of Benti Chaupai, but it is required Sikh prayer, regardless.

 

[Treks]

Guru Nanak Sahib and Guru Gobind Singh Ji shared the same jyot according to Sikh tradition.

Guru Nanak Sahib also did take quite a hard line stance against the use of idols, like this shabad starting on panna 1240:

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
सलोक महला १ ॥
Salok mėhlā 1.
Shalok, First Mehl:

ਘਰਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਭਾ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
घरि नाराइणु सभा नालि ॥
Gẖar nārā▫iṇ sabẖā nāl.
In your home, is the Lord God, along with all your other gods.

ਪੂਜ ਕਰੇ ਰਖੈ ਨਾਵਾਲਿ ॥
पूज करे रखै नावालि ॥
Pūj kare rakẖai nāvāl.
You wash your stone gods and worship them.

ਕੁੰਗੂ ਚੰਨਣੁ ਫੁਲ ਚੜਾਏ ॥
कुंगू चंनणु फुल चड़ाए ॥
Kungū cẖannaṇ ful cẖaṛā▫e.
You offer saffron, sandalwood and flowers.

ਪੈਰੀ ਪੈ ਪੈ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਮਨਾਏ ॥
पैरी पै पै बहुतु मनाए ॥
Pairī pai pai bahuṯ manā▫e.
Falling at their feet, you try so hard to appease them.

ਮਾਣੂਆ ਮੰਗਿ ਮੰਗਿ ਪੈਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਖਾਇ ॥
माणूआ मंगि मंगि पैन्है खाइ ॥
Māṇū▫ā mang mang painĥai kẖā▫e.
Begging, begging from other people, you get things to wear and eat.

ਅੰਧੀ ਕੰਮੀ ਅੰਧ ਸਜਾਇ॥
अंधी कमी अंध सजाइ ॥
Anḏẖī kammī anḏẖ sajā▫e.
For your blind deeds, you will be blindly punished.

ਭੁਖਿਆ ਦੇਇ ਨ ਮਰਦਿਆ ਰਖੈ ॥
भुखिआ देइ न मरदिआ रखै ॥
Bẖukẖi▫ā ḏe▫e na marḏi▫ā rakẖai.
Your idol does not feed the hungry, or save the dying.

ਅੰਧਾ ਝਗੜਾ ਅੰਧੀ ਸਥੈ ॥੧॥
अंधा झगड़ा अंधी सथै ॥१॥
Anḏẖā jẖagṛā anḏẖī sathai. ||1||
The blind assembly argues in blindness. ||1||
​

Guru Nanak goes on to remind people that everything is under the One's command, all gods, all people, all kings, etc, and then redirects people towards Naam instead of these other things.

 

[Treks]

Kabeer Ji was also very forthright about idols. This shabad from SGGSJ, the Guru of the Sikhs:

ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਪੰਚਪਦੇ ੯ ਦੁਤੁਕੇ ੫
आसा स्री कबीर जीउ के पंचपदे ९ दुतुके ५
Āsā sarī Kabīr jī▫o ke pancẖpaḏe 9 ḏuṯuke 5
Aasaa, Kabeer Jee, 9 Panch-Padas, 5 Du-Tukas:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਪਾਤੀ ਤੋਰੈ ਮਾਲਿਨੀ ਪਾਤੀ ਪਾਤੀ ਜੀਉ ॥
पाती तोरै मालिनी पाती पाती जीउ ॥
Pāṯī ṯorai mālini pāṯī pāṯī jī▫o.
You tear off the leaves, O gardener, but in each and every leaf, there is life.

ਜਿਸੁ ਪਾਹਨ ਕਉ ਪਾਤੀ ਤੋਰੈ ਸੋ ਪਾਹਨ ਨਿਰਜੀਉ ॥੧॥
जिसु पाहन कउ पाती तोरै सो पाहन निरजीउ ॥१॥
Jis pāhan ka▫o pāṯī ṯorai so pāhan nirjī▫o. ||1||
That stone idol, for which you tear off those leaves - that stone idol is lifeless. ||1||

ਭੂਲੀ ਮਾਲਨੀ ਹੈ ਏਉ ॥
भूली मालनी है एउ ॥
Bẖūlī mālnī hai e▫o.
In this, you are mistaken, O gardener.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਜਾਗਤਾ ਹੈ ਦੇਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
सतिगुरु जागता है देउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Saṯgur jāgṯā hai ḏe▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The True Guru is the Living Lord. ||1||Pause||

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਾਤੀ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਡਾਰੀ ਫੂਲ ਸੰਕਰਦੇਉ ॥
ब्रहमु पाती बिसनु डारी फूल संकरदेउ ॥
Barahm pāṯī bisan dārī fūl sankarḏe▫o.
Brahma is in the leaves, Vishnu is in the branches, and Shiva is in the flowers.

ਤੀਨਿ ਦੇਵ ਪ੍ਰਤਖਿ ਤੋਰਹਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਕਿਸ ਕੀ ਸੇਉ ॥੨॥
तीनि देव प्रतखि तोरहि करहि किस की सेउ ॥२॥
Ŧīn ḏev parṯakẖ ṯorėh karahi kis kī se▫o. ||2||
When you break these three gods, whose service are you performing? ||2||

ਪਾਖਾਨ ਗਢਿ ਕੈ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਦੇ ਕੈ ਛਾਤੀ ਪਾਉ ॥
पाखान गढि कै मूरति कीन्ही दे कै छाती पाउ ॥
Pākẖān gadẖ kai mūraṯ kīnĥī ḏe kai cẖẖāṯī pā▫o.
The sculptor carves the stone and fashions it into an idol, placing his feet upon its chest.

ਜੇ ਏਹ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਸਾਚੀ ਹੈ ਤਉ ਗੜ੍ਹਣਹਾਰੇ ਖਾਉ ॥੩॥
जे एह मूरति साची है तउ गड़्हणहारे खाउ ॥३॥
Je eh mūraṯ sācẖī hai ṯa▫o gaṛĥaṇhāre kẖā▫o. ||3||
If this stone god was true, it would devour the sculptor for this! ||3||

ਭਾਤੁ ਪਹਿਤਿ ਅਰੁ ਲਾਪਸੀ ਕਰਕਰਾ ਕਾਸਾਰੁ ॥
भातु पहिति अरु लापसी करकरा कासारु ॥
Bẖāṯ pahiṯ ar lāpsī karkarā kāsār.
Rice and beans, candies, cakes and cookies -

ਭੋਗਨਹਾਰੇ ਭੋਗਿਆ ਇਸੁ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਕੇ ਮੁਖ ਛਾਰੁ ॥੪॥
भोगनहारे भोगिआ इसु मूरति के मुख छारु ॥४॥
Bẖoganhāre bẖogi▫ā is mūraṯ ke mukẖ cẖẖār. ||4||
the priest enjoys these, while he puts ashes into the mouth of the idol. ||4||

ਮਾਲਿਨਿ ਭੂਲੀ ਜਗੁ ਭੁਲਾਨਾ ਹਮ ਭੁਲਾਨੇ ਨਾਹਿ ॥
मालिनि भूली जगु भुलाना हम भुलाने नाहि ॥
Mālin bẖūlī jag bẖulānā ham bẖulāne nāhi.
The gardener is mistaken, and the world is mistaken, but I am not mistaken.

ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਹਮ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਖੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਇ ॥੫॥੧॥੧੪॥
कहु कबीर हम राम राखे क्रिपा करि हरि राइ ॥५॥१॥१४॥
Kaho Kabīr ham rām rākẖe kirpā kar har rā▫e. ||5||1||14||
Says Kabeer, the Lord preserves me; the Lord, my King, has showered His Blessings upon me. ||5||1||14||​

 

[Treks]

Guru Arjun Sahib: http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1100&L=15&id=47285 doesn't say things as directly, but puts the idea of gods and idols into perspective as temporal things which will die and all that will remain is God.

Guru Ram Das echoes Kabir Ji: http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1264&L=2&id=54324 and says that worshipping stones is useless.

I think the Sikh Guru Sahib makes it quite clear, overall. No idols for Sikhs.

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

Hello, I am a young woman searching for spirituality. I have found interest in Sikhism, and looked at some of the prayers. To be honest, I didn't like what I interpreted. They said that skeptics would die, and those who worshipped idols were "stupid asses".

I am wondering, how to reconcile this with my belief in freedom of religion, and the fact that everyone in my family, who I love very much, is an atheist. Is there some other way to interpret these prayers? Thanks.

Have you tried to read the Quran, Gospel, Psalms and Tora? The Gospel is really beautiful, it teaches how Jesus Christ is telling us to Love God and our neighbors.

Best prayers are the mornings and evenings when you are reading the Holy Scriptures for a moment.

At the moment i am doing research about Hinduism.

PS: Tip/advice, do not follow the people of a religion, stay away from their mosques/churches/synagogues/temples etc. You will find God in the Scriptures, but these people and their places are the opposite of God and in a deep sleep.