Having trouble understanding the Baha'i faith...

[ohhcuppycakee]

I was very interested in the Baha'i faith last year, but gave up on it in the end. I was and still am confused about certain things in the Baha'i faith. I have a few questions.

1. If the message of religion is one and most religions are from God, why do the teachings different so much? (For examples: Hinduism teaches reincarnation, while Islam teaches that there is a Day of Judgment, heaven and hell).

2. Why is the Universal House of Justice needed?

3. What exactly happens when we die?

 

[arthra]

I was very interested in the Baha'i faith last year, but gave up on it in the end. I was and still am confused about certain things in the Baha'i faith. I have a few questions.

1. If the message of religion is one and most religions are from God, why do the teachings different so much? (For examples: Hinduism teaches reincarnation, while Islam teaches that there is a Day of Judgment, heaven and hell).

2. Why is the Universal House of Justice needed?

3. What exactly happens when we die?

Welcome to the Baha'i forum!

First question: Why do religions differ? We believe all religions have a Divine Source and are spiritually one..that there is only one religion of God that has appeared at various times... this means the culture and limits of geography and language all have an influence but the core devotion is spiritual.. We see reincarnation as an ancient belief based largely on how people see the cycle of nature.. Similar flowers more or less reappear after winter and in spring and so on. But it's our belief that the soul does not return to a physical body re-incarnating.. the attributes reappear we believe but not the soul. As to the Day of Judgement we believe this refers to the appearance of the new Manifestation of God...so there is a judgement taking place...those who accept it and those who deny it. So it is we interpret the Day of Judgement as an allegory of spiritual truth.

Second: The Universal House of Justice was elected by the Baha'i world in 1963 as the Center of the Faith. There could be no more Guardians as Shoghi Effendi left no Will and so he himself was planning for the House of Justice as an institution. Abdul-Baha Himself in His Will provided for the House of Justice as did Baha'u'llah in the Kitab-i-Aqdas before that...The House of Justice decides issues that are not clearly mentioned in the Writings and also promotes the unity of the Faith.

Third: What happens when we "die" is that the soul ascends to the worlds of God.. like a captive bird freed from a broken cage. The spiritual world is as much different from this world as the world of the womb is from this world.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

Third: What happens when we "die" is that the soul ascends to the worlds of God.. like a captive bird freed from a broken cage. The spiritual world is as much different from this world as the world of the womb is from this world.

Is there a literal heaven and hell...?

 

[BruceDLimber]

Hinduism teaches reincarnation, while Islam teaches that there is a Day of Judgment, heaven and hell.

As we understand it, that's a more recent development in Hinduism, not what it originally taught. And in any case, the Baha'i scriptures explicitly reject reincarnation and explain in detail why. You can read this at:

http://www.bahai-library.org

by clicking "Writings" and then "Some Answered Questions": you'll find a whole chapter about this specifically.

In the Baha'i view, the Day of Judgement occurs every time a new Divine Messenger appears on earth; and every individual who hears of Him is judged by whether or not s/he accepts God's new Messenger. It's thus a recurring event, and this is described specifically in The Book of Certitude (aka Kitab-i-Iqan), which is another title of our scriptures you can find at that same site.

As to why the social teachings of the various religions differ, I quote the Baha'i scriptures:

"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you."

—(The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 114;
also Gleanings, CXI, pp. 217-8)

As to Heaven and hell, IOV they're the spiritual conditions of nearness to and remoteness from God, and as such, exist here and now as well as after death! Indeed, every one of us is in one or the other at each instant as a function of "where our heads are at."


Best regards, and please feel free to keep the questions coming: we LOVE 'em!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[arthra]

Is there a literal heaven and hell...?

Thanks for another great question "cuppycake"!

Here's what Baha'is believe:

An important part of the Báb's teaching is His explanation of
the terms Resurrection, Day of Judgment, Paradise and
Hell. By the Resurrection is meant, He said, the appearance of
a new Manifestation of the Sun of Truth. The raising of the
dead means the spiritual awakening of those who are asleep
in the graves of ignorance, heedlessness and lust.

The Day of
Judgment is the Day of the new Manifestation, by acceptance
or rejection of Whose Revelation the sheep are separated from
the goats, for the sheep know the voice of the Good Shepherd
and follow Him.

Paradise is the joy of knowing and loving
God, as revealed through His Manifestation, thereby attaining
to the utmost perfection of which one is capable, and, after
death, obtaining entrance to the Kingdom of God and the life
everlasting.

Hell is simply deprivation of that knowledge of
God with consequent failure to attain divine perfection, and
loss of the Eternal Favor. He definitely declared that these terms
have no real meaning apart from this; and that the prevalent
ideas regarding the resurrection of the material body, a material
heaven and hell, and the like, are mere figments of the
imagination. He taught that man has a life after death, and
that in the afterlife progress towards perfection is limitless.

~ Dr. J.E. Esslemont, Baha'u'llah and the New Era, p. 20

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

As we understand it, that's a more recent development in Hinduism, not what it originally taught. And in any case, the Baha'i scriptures explicitly reject reincarnation and explain in detail why. You can read this at:

http://www.bahai-library.org

by clicking "Writings" and then "Some Answered Questions": you'll find a whole chapter about this specifically.

In the Baha'i view, the Day of Judgement occurs every time a new Divine Messenger appears on earth; and every individual who hears of Him is judged by whether or not s/he accepts God's new Messenger. It's thus a recurring event, and this is described specifically in The Book of Certitude (aka Kitab-i-Iqan), which is another title of our scriptures you can find at that same site.

As to why the social teachings of the various religions differ, I quote the Baha'i scriptures:

"There can be no doubt whatever that the peoples of the world, of whatever race or religion, derive their inspiration from one heavenly Source, and are the subjects of one God. The difference between the ordinances under which they abide should be attributed to the varying requirements and exigencies of the age in which they were revealed. All of them, except a few which are the outcome of human perversity, were ordained of God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Arise and, armed with the power of faith, shatter to pieces the gods of your vain imaginings, the sowers of dissension amongst you. Cleave unto that which draweth you together and uniteth you."

—(The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 114;
also Gleanings, CXI, pp. 217-8)

As to Heaven and hell, IOV they're the spiritual conditions of nearness to and remoteness from God, and as such, exist here and now as well as after death! Indeed, every one of us is in one or the other at each instant as a function of "where our heads are at."


Best regards, and please feel free to keep the questions coming: we LOVE 'em!

Peace,

Bruce

Another thing, Hinduism has the belief in demi-gods. The earliest Hindu scriptures show this. Baha'i faith is monotheistic. How can the message be the same? I would really like to believe in a religion that accepts all religions, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[arthra]

Another thing, Hinduism has the belief in demi-gods. The earliest Hindu scriptures show this. Baha'i faith is monotheistic. How can the message be the same? I would really like to believe in a religion that accepts all religions, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.

Will you allow me to share a few things with "cuppy cake" ...?

If you consider that Hinduism is really an mixture of a lot of spiritual exploration over centuries of time there are what could be considered monotheistic aspects to it..

In Hinduism, views are broad and range from monism, through pantheism and panentheism (alternatively called monistic theism by some scholars) to monotheism. Hinduism cannot be said to be polytheistic, as all great Hindu religious leaders have repeatedly stressed that God is one and his forms are many, the ways to communicate with him are many and focusing or concentrating on the icon is one of those ways...."To what is One, sages give many a title they call it Agni, Yama, Mātariśvan."(trans. Griffith)

See:

Monotheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also you might like reading an essay on the subject of how Baha'i Faith and Hinduism relate:

Hinduism and the Baha'i Faith

There are today likely more Baha'is in India than anywhere on the planet! and there's the lovely Lotus Temple in New Delhi one of the most visited sites around there..

http://images.search.yahoo.com/sear...p-t-471&va=visiting+the+lotus+temple+in+india

 

[BruceDLimber]

Another thing, Hinduism has the belief in demi-gods. The earliest Hindu scriptures show this. Baha'i faith is monotheistic.

In fact, Hinduism at base is monotheistic also: the name of the One God is Brahman (not to be confused with Brahma).

Other "gods" or "demi-gods" are simply derivatives or aspects of Brahman.

So again, this really doesn't pose any conflict or problem, any more than the Christian concept of a trinity would supposedly conflict with the One God notion.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

[T]he lovely Lotus Temple in New Delhi one of the most visited sites around there.

You understate, Art.

As I understand it, at arouns 13,000 visitors each day (four million per year), the New Delhi Baha'i temple is in fact the single most-visited building in the world!

Best!

Bruce

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

In fact, Hinduism at base is monotheistic also: the name of the One God is Brahman (not to be confused with Brahma).

Other "gods" or "demi-gods" are simply derivatives or aspects of Brahman.

So again, this really doesn't pose any conflict or problem, any more than the Christian concept of a trinity would supposedly conflict with the One God notion.

Peace,

Bruce

Yeah, I can't accept that as being truth though...That would be shirk...

 

[arthra]

Yeah, I can't accept that as being truth though...That would be shirk...

After considering my citations above,

I'd like to recommend a book to you cuppycakee:

The Vedic Experience Mantramanjari, An Anthology of the Vedas for Modern Man and Contemporary Celebration.

by Raimundo Panikkar
University of California Press

There's a video of him speaking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbjd_Tdnqxg

Pannikar was a prof of religious studies at UC Santa Barbara. I think his work shows the important spiritual truths conveyed since Vedic times.

Ancient cultures and peoples used various symbolic ways and stories of conveying truths. You see this also in native religions in various parts of the world. What I think is important is recognizing the truths and accepting the symbols as say an earlier kind of language.. similar to say hieroglyphics. Some have out of ignorance clung to the image and forgotten the truth it was meant to convey.

We Baha'is ourselves are forbidden to represent God in say an anthropomorphic representation.. say as a picture of a man. But we acknowledge many have done just that in many cultures..but what we focus on is the truth that is conveyed. There have probably been a lot of representations that were produced by various cultures..consider

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan

I think we Baha'is would argue for the preservation of cultural artifacts rather than their out-right destruction, but neither would we encourage use of representations among us as say an object of worship nor do we have rituals involving an ecclesiastical order of any kind.

 

[Bob Dixon]

Yeah, I can't accept that as being truth though...That would be shirk...

It's useful to think of the Devas in a way similar to the 99 Names of God, I've heard.

 

[ohhcuppycakee]

It's useful to think of the Devas in a way similar to the 99 Names of God, I've heard.

Interesting take on it...but the 99 names of Allah (SWT) just describe His attributes...The Beneficent, Merciful, etc...Hinduism is different in that it describes these aspects of God as being demigods with a physical description and people worship these demigods.

 

[arthra]

Interesting take on it...but the 99 names of Allah (SWT) just describe His attributes...The Beneficent, Merciful, etc...Hinduism is different in that it describes these aspects of God as being demigods with a physical description and people worship these demigods.

Let's not make this an argument about Hinduism please.. I've presented evidence already that there are monotheistic tendencies with in Hinduism and we also regard it as divine in origin..

So cuppycake are there any more questions you may have...?

We're going to observe our Holy Day tonight .. It's the anniversary of the Birth of Baha'u'llah.

 

[BruceDLimber]

That would be shirk...

Not to the extent that it speaks of the One God (Whom you probably call Allah), it isn't!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[RS1346]

Hey Cuppycake,

You might find this of interest:

""We cannot be sure of the authenticity of the scriptures of Buddha and Krishna, so we certainly cannot draw any conclusions about virgin births mentioned in them. There is no reference to this subject in our teachings, so the Guardian cannot pronounce an opinion."

- A Letter Written on behalf of the Guardian (Shoghi Effendi)

Of course, we are not speaking about the subject of the virgin birth, but basically, these scriptures are so old that we can't be sure what the originals may have said.

Also, the older a religion gets it often strays further from its original teachings anyway. Hence, religion has to be renewed.

Maybe in Hinduism this notion of one transcendent God with different attributes was understood in such a way, but later people misunderstood this and started worshipping individual "gods". Also, it may very well have been just a way of explaining this was appropriate for the capacity of the people at that time. (think about how you would explain the oneness of God with many different names to a child who has no knowledge of any of this). Either way, this is personal speculation because ultimately we really cannot know what the original Scriptures state.

So, although we believe that there are many valid Faiths and that there have been maaany past Prophets (too many to count) , the Bible and the Qur'an are considered as the most reliable Books for Baha'is and - although, we do believe that the Bible and especially the New Testament of the Bible is valid for the most part - the Qur'an is considered the only Book (other than the Baha'i Writings) that is 100% reliable.

So, since we both accept the Qur'an, it is a common ground of understanding - since we both believe the Qur'an is 100% true, we should look to this incredible Book

If you are interested, here is a really good link regarding the connection between Islam and the Baha'i Faith explained mostly examples from the Qur'an: Islam and the Baha'i Faith


Also, I would highly recommend reading the Kitab-i-Iqan. In this, among other themes, Baha'u'llah explains why there are differing religions with differing laws, but, in reality, they are the same religion that is evolving over time (many verses of the Qur'an are also commented upon here).

Here is the link: Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán


Of course, I would also highly recommend getting in touch with a few Baha'is where you live - only so much can be said over forums !

But, hopefully this helps answer some questions!

Best wishes,


Greg

 

[PeruanoKiwi]

The way I understand it is that "gods" and "demigods" in Hinduism aren't exactly different gods but different names and qualities of the same true god. (Brahman)

Both Hinduism and the Bahá'í Faith teach that God manifests himself at different times and places. These messengers are termed Avatars in Hinduism and Manifestations of God in the Bahá'í teachings.

As for Al-Qiyamah, Yawmu’l Deen is a major theme, the Grand Promise, addressed not only in the Qur'an, but also in the Scriptures of other major religions. Opinions may have differed on specifics, yet there is a common consensus, that the Day of Judgment is a time of momentous upheaval, and calamity and, to many people, it is the time of the end of the world.

You might want to read some passages in the Qu'ran that talk about sending a Messenger, an Apostle before the chastisement.

[17:15] : Whoever goes aright, for his own soul does he go aright; and whoever goes astray, to its detriment only does he go astray: nor can the bearer of a burden bear the burden of another, nor do We chastise until We raise an apostle.

[28:59] : Nor was thy Lord the one to destroy a population until He had sent to its center a messenger, rehearsing to them Our Signs; nor are We going to destroy a population except when its members practice iniquity.


Here are some passages you may want to look up also.


[14:48]
[11:104-7]
[39:73-4]
[39:69]

Wishing you the best in your investigation of the truth
الله أبهى
PK