Healthy envy for atheist integrity

[Spiderman]

I'd like to apologize to atheists for projection and assuming that because I was empty as an unbeliever that somehow you are too.

You are likely healthier, more balanced, and happier than I am, so it was an error to assume I had something that could help you better reach your full potential.

I deeply admire your ability to be honest and good to others with no belief that there is a Deity that cares or hope of reward or consequence. I can't do that. To be honest, I'm envious of you. Truly a good Atheist is a person of integrity.

I'm just not a good person. In order to not lie, steal, vandalize property, abuse substances, or hurt self or others, I need a robust prayer life and put God first in all things.

You don't need that to be upright, so you are truly a good person. I have a healthy envy for you. Everything good I do is the result of another power. The good you do comes from YOU!

I tried to be one of you. Everything fell apart. Can't do it!

Also, I admire atheists for being brave. It is truly brave to stand up to God and Religion in the face of threats of eternal damnation! I also share your repugnance for Religion. (oh was that projection again? Sorry. Maybe you have no repugnance for Religion. If you do, I understand. I have the same thing.).

Truly atheists are admirable creatures when they walk the straight and narrow, are honest, poor in spirit, humble, detached from vain glory and material possessions, and do so with no thought of eternal reward or consequence. How noble! I'm serious! and jealous!

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

That was beautiful Pope.

I do however still believe that you are not as bad as you think and that can become a better person over time.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm not just good, I'm great. Extraordinary, really.


Is there something higher than extraordinary?

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd like to apologize to atheists for projection and assuming that because I was empty as an unbeliever that somehow you are too.

You are likely healthier, more balanced, and happier than I am, so it was an error to assume I had something that could help you better reach your full potential.

I deeply admire your ability to be honest and good to others with no belief that there is a Deity that cares or hope of reward or consequence. I can't do that. To be honest, I'm envious of you. Truly a good Atheist is a person of integrity.

I'm just not a good person. In order to not lie, steal, vandalize property, abuse substances, or hurt self or others, I need a robust prayer life and put God first in all things.

You don't need that to be upright, so you are truly a good person. I have a healthy envy for you. Everything good I do is the result of another power. The good you do comes from YOU!

I tried to be one of you. Everything fell apart. Can't do it!

Also, I admire atheists for being brave. It is truly brave to stand up to God and Religion in the face of threats of eternal damnation! I also share your repugnance for Religion. (oh was that projection again? Sorry. Maybe you have no repugnance for Religion. If you do, I understand. I have the same thing.).

Truly atheists are admirable creatures when they walk the straight and narrow, are honest, poor in spirit, humble, detached from vain glory and material possessions, and do so with no thought of eternal reward or consequence. How noble! I'm serious! and jealous!

Speaking from experience, atheism doesn't take integrity, courage, smarts, or education.
Tis as easy as slipping on a banana peel.
But then....I was born to it.
Good luck with your far more difficult path.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Well, I appreciate that sentiment.

But, technically. . . the only thing that an atheist has in common with another atheist is their lack of belief in gods.

Whatever other personal values you cited, decency, humility, charity, et cetera. . . will vary from person to person. . . . Some of us are good, some are bad, some are intelligent, and some are silly heads.

Humans all, though.

 

[Spiderman]

That was beautiful Pope.

I do however still believe that you are not as bad as you think and that can become a better person over time.

That transformation comes through prayer and meditation though. I've tried other things. It doesn't work.

Thanks though.

 

[Spiderman]

I believe God speaks and works through atheists. I've seen God in their eloquent, rational, thoughtful posts on RF.

Not that I don't see God speaking through Theists, it just is more meaningful when it comes from an Atheist.

I think it's often spirits working in people inspiring them. If you don't share that belief I totally understand

 

[Brickjectivity]

Is there something higher than extraordinary?

Profundity and proliferation are beyond extraordinary.

 

[icehorse]

That transformation comes through prayer and meditation though. I've tried other things. It doesn't work.

Thanks though.

I think you're being too hard on yourself. First off, I'd say that there is a crucial distinction between prayer and meditation. Meditation does not need supernatural intervention to work! Second, I think that healthy people have an innate sense of morals. So if you meditate on your religious beliefs, I'd guess that you'll come to recognize that the religion merely reinforces the good stuff you already had inside you.

 

[Spiderman]

I think you're being too hard on yourself. First off, I'd say that there is a crucial distinction between prayer and meditation. Meditation does not need supernatural intervention to work! Second, I think that healthy people have an innate sense of morals. So if you meditate on your religious beliefs, I'd guess that you'll come to recognize that the religion merely reinforces the good stuff you already had inside you.

Thanks.
Where we differ is I think that goodness within me comes from the creator. The transformation and desire to change comes from God. I can't believe otherwise at this time.

The transformation that has taken place in prayer is too remarkable and severe. Without faith I'm a terrible person.

 

[Spiderman]

Well, I appreciate that sentiment.

But, technically. . . the only thing that an atheist has in common with another atheist is their lack of belief in gods.

Whatever other personal values you cited, decency, humility, charity, et cetera. . . will vary from person to person. . . . Some of us are good, some are bad, some are intelligent, and some are silly heads.

Humans all, though.

Not saying all atheists have integrity. I'm saying I envy whatever that is which would motivate an atheist to have integrity without the belief that there is a Deity aware of their actions who will reward or consequence them.

I call that quality "atheist integrity". It is a quality I wish everyone had. I don't have it.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

That transformation comes through prayer and meditation though. I've tried other things. It doesn't work.

Thanks though.

I meditate as well.

 

[columbus]

I am deist, really. Does that count?

Tom

 

[Spiderman]

I am deist, really. Does that count?

Tom

Yes, that counts. As a Deist do you believe God is aware of your actions?

The quality I call "atheist integrity" is the integrity to do what's right even when you don't believe anyone is watching.

 

[columbus]

Yes, that counts. As a Deist do you believe God is aware of your actions?

The quality I call "atheist integrity" is the integrity to do what's right even when you don't believe anyone is watching.

That's super nice.
But believe me, not all nontheists are particularly ethical. They just aren't very different from theists, in my experience. People are extremely similar, regardless of the abstract worldviews. I am sorry that you are afflicted with the problems you are. I hope things go well for you. If your religion helps get you through the night, I am all about it.
Tom

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Also, I admire atheists for being brave. It is truly brave to stand up to God and Religion in the face of threats of eternal damnation! I also share your repugnance for Religion. (oh was that projection again? Sorry. Maybe you have no repugnance for Religion. If you do, I understand. I have the same thing.).

It takes no bravery to "stand up" to God or threats of eternal damnation if you don't accept these things as real.

Standing up to religion, OTOH... that can take a lot of bravery in some situations. I don't fear any gods, but if I was an atheist blogger in Bangladesh, I'd probably fear the theist gangs who have no qualms about killing atheists who dare to express themselves publicly.