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Heaven immediate after death? Or after the second coming?

Jevam

Member
I was at an important cemetery mass today and I kept hearing the bishop say "our passed on brothers and sisters will be in heaven" or "let us pray so that our brethren may be resurrected into the kingdom of heaven."

In general consensus, aren't Christian (I'm Catholic) views that upon death the good people go to heaven immediately? Or do people die and stay dead until the second coming when Jesus gives the living and the dead a second chance to enter heaven?

I'm not knowledgeable in the Bible enough yet (I only have gotten to mid-Exodus so far). Which view is correct in terms of scripture?? Which view does the Bible best support?
 

gdemoss

servant
This is a great question. One that I have had myself.

Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Which if this meant that the believer was asleep/dead until the second coming then awakened, we would have to question that which is taught by Jesus about Lazerous and the rich man. These both seem to be fully awake and aware. As well as Abel who was dead yet spoke. Or yet that which was preached to the spirits in prison by Christ so that they could live in the spirit according to God. Or where Christ stated that God was the God of the living while talking to the Sadducees.

The question remains, what happens to the spirit upon death. We are told that Christ took captivity captive which I have believed to be Abraham and all those who had believed as he had.

I have come to the conclusion that for the spirit to be with Christ is completely separate from the resurrection of those spirits into living bodies again.

For a spirit to be resurrected into an immortal body then cast into the lake of fire is the second death.

But as for this topic, I too, am still learning.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
i wonder what you will think when you get to Ecclesiastes 9:5 or Psalm 146:4


But just to give you something to think about.... the resurrection accounts that we read about in the bible are actually the dead being raised to life...back to life in the flesh.
When Jesus raised the dead, they came back to life in their fleshly bodies again. So the biblical resurrections were physical...not spiritual. Read the account in John chapter 11 about Lazarus...even his sister mary expressed a belief that Lazarus would be resurrected to life in the 'last day'
 

Awoon

Well-Known Member
We live in a slower vibration while being human bodies.

Has anyone thought about the vibration one may encounter after the body is placed in the ground and covered?
 

gdemoss

servant
i wonder what you will think when you get to Ecclesiastes 9:5 or Psalm 146:4


But just to give you something to think about.... the resurrection accounts that we read about in the bible are actually the dead being raised to life...back to life in the flesh.
When Jesus raised the dead, they came back to life in their fleshly bodies again. So the biblical resurrections were physical...not spiritual. Read the account in John chapter 11 about Lazarus...even his sister mary expressed a belief that Lazarus would be resurrected to life in the 'last day'

Thank you so much for the thought provoking entries. I pondered on what you have said and have the following to offer in return. Have fun!

I don't think the writer of psalm 146 was meaning to explain that there is no ability to think after death. He says this right after telling us not to look to man for help but God. A man dies and then he can no longer help you. The things he used to think up for you to help are gone. Poetry can be so difficult to understand at times.

I believe Solomon was speaking about the upright as the living and the evil men as the dead. They are in the congregation of the dead who are alive but dead. The dead in this case don't know what lies ahead of them in death.

As far as the resurrections mentioned above, they were all temporary resuscitations and not resurrections. Each one of the revived individuals eventually died again. To date, Jesus, is the only one who has been resurrected. The next scheduled resurrection is the day he returns (Rev 20:5). This is the resurrection that we are all working to achieve by doing as Paul did and keeping a good conscience toward God and man.

As for physical vrs spiritual bodies, we have to look to Pauls writing (1 Cor 15:44). "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."
 

javajo

Well-Known Member
Paul taught that to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord which he said was far better. He said he was in a strait betwixt the two and desired to depart and be with the Lord, but he knew he had a little more to do first. Stephen prayed to Jesus and asked him to receive his spirit as he died seeing Heaven and Jesus next to the Father. Jesus went to prepare a place for us that where he is we may be also. He is in Heaven. I believe we go immediately to Heaven the moment we die. Verses that say the dead have no thoughts and whatnot are speaking of the bodies in the ground, imo. We know from the Rich Man and Lazarus that people are conscious and remember everything after death. I believe after the Resurrection, Jesus took Lazarus and all who were in Paradise in Hades and took them to Heaven so now all who die in the Lord go immediately to Heaven. That's my belief.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Thank you so much for the thought provoking entries. I pondered on what you have said and have the following to offer in return. Have fun!

I don't think the writer of psalm 146 was meaning to explain that there is no ability to think after death. He says this right after telling us not to look to man for help but God. A man dies and then he can no longer help you. The things he used to think up for you to help are gone. Poetry can be so difficult to understand at times.

I believe Solomon was speaking about the upright as the living and the evil men as the dead. They are in the congregation of the dead who are alive but dead. The dead in this case don't know what lies ahead of them in death.

As far as the resurrections mentioned above, they were all temporary resuscitations and not resurrections. Each one of the revived individuals eventually died again. To date, Jesus, is the only one who has been resurrected. The next scheduled resurrection is the day he returns (Rev 20:5). This is the resurrection that we are all working to achieve by doing as Paul did and keeping a good conscience toward God and man.

As for physical vrs spiritual bodies, we have to look to Pauls writing (1 Cor 15:44). "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."

Paul was writing to christians who were given the opportunity to rule with Christ in the heavenly kingdom though. So for them, yes, a raising to spirit would occur.

But to the Jewish people, their conviction was in a resurrection from the dead....to life in the flesh on earth. Do you remember the account when Lazarus had died, and Jesus told his sister Mary that he would rise...her reply was:
John 11:23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”
The reason why she believed in the physical resurrection is because the Hebrew scriptures only speak of a physical resurrection. Until the New covenant came into effect (after Jesus death) nobody could become a member of that heavenly kingdom and therefore nobody could be raised to spirit life. That is why Jesus is called the 'firstborn from the dead' .... his resurrection was the first of its kind because all other resurrections recorded in the scriptures were to physical life...not spiritual.


Here are some hebrew scriptures that highlight their belief in the resurrection:

Isaiah 26:19 “Your dead ones will live. A corpse of mine—they will rise up. Awake and cry out joyfully, YOU residents in the dust! For your dew is as the dew of mallows, and the earth itself will let even those impotent in death drop [in birth].

Daniel 12:2 And there will be many of those asleep in the ground of dust who will wake up, these to indefinitely lasting life and those to reproaches [and] to indefinitely lasting abhorrence

Hosea 13:14 “From the hand of She′ol (the grave/hell) I shall redeem them; from death I shall recover them. Where are your stings, O Death? Where is your destructiveness, O She′ol?

Job 14:13-15 “O that in Sheol you would conceal me, . . . that you would set a time limit for me and remember me! If an able-bodied man dies can he live again? . . . You will call, and I myself shall answer you. For the work of your hands you will have a yearning.”
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I was at an important cemetery mass today and I kept hearing the bishop say "our passed on brothers and sisters will be in heaven" or "let us pray so that our brethren may be resurrected into the kingdom of heaven."

In general consensus, aren't Christian (I'm Catholic) views that upon death the good people go to heaven immediately? Or do people die and stay dead until the second coming when Jesus gives the living and the dead a second chance to enter heaven?

I'm not knowledgeable in the Bible enough yet (I only have gotten to mid-Exodus so far). Which view is correct in terms of scripture?? Which view does the Bible best support?
I believe that it is scripturally accurate to say that nobody goes to Heaven until Christ's Second Coming, at which time we will all be resurrected -- meaning that our newly perfected physical bodies will be reunited with our immortal spirits. At that time, we will stand before God to be judged. I believe that during the interim between death and our resurrection, our spirits will reside in an intermediate realm, a spirit world. For the righteous, who have repented of their sins and accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ, this place will be a paradise. For the unrepentant wicked, it will be a prison/hell. For those in this prison/hell, however, this miserable state need not be permanent, as our spirits are cognizant entities that continue to be able to grow spiritually after death, repent of our sins and make decisions that will affect our ultimate eternal destiny. This is the only just way that God could conceivably deal with those who lived and died without having the opportunity to hear Christ's gospel.
 
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james2ko

Well-Known Member
I was at an important cemetery mass today and I kept hearing the bishop say "our passed on brothers and sisters will be in heaven" or "let us pray so that our brethren may be resurrected into the kingdom of heaven."

In general consensus, aren't Christian (I'm Catholic) views that upon death the good people go to heaven immediately? Or do people die and stay dead until the second coming when Jesus gives the living and the dead a second chance to enter heaven?

I'm not knowledgeable in the Bible enough yet (I only have gotten to mid-Exodus so far). Which view is correct in terms of scripture?? Which view does the Bible best support?

You are going to get just as many views as there are dead people.:)
We've been discussing this very issue here..
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
i wonder what you will think when you get to Ecclesiastes 9:5 or Psalm 146:4

I find it interesting that the book of Ecclesiastes, and that verse in Psalms you mentioned, do not teach any doctrine of life after death:
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Psalm 146:4
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ecclesiastes could be considered the humanist book of the Bible
Ecclesiastes 3:19
"For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again"
We certainly don't find any talk of resurrections or living in sheol...which later was interpreted as equivalent to the Greek underworld - Hades, where the dead live on in a shadowy existence. Later on we get the resurrection; and the resurrection of the dead is the theme of most of the New Testament, except for a scant few verses that might be interpreted as referring to a soul going to heaven after death.


But just to give you something to think about.... the resurrection accounts that we read about in the bible are actually the dead being raised to life...back to life in the flesh.
When Jesus raised the dead, they came back to life in their fleshly bodies again. So the biblical resurrections were physical...not spiritual. Read the account in John chapter 11 about Lazarus...even his sister mary expressed a belief that Lazarus would be resurrected to life in the 'last day'
Then again, we've been waiting a long time for those last days! Seems like the human race could be extinct by that time.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I find it interesting that the book of Ecclesiastes, and that verse in Psalms you mentioned, do not teach any doctrine of life after death:
Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Psalm 146:4
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ecclesiastes could be considered the humanist book of the Bible
Ecclesiastes 3:19
"For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again"
We certainly don't find any talk of resurrections or living in sheol...which later was interpreted as equivalent to the Greek underworld - Hades, where the dead live on in a shadowy existence. Later on we get the resurrection; and the resurrection of the dead is the theme of most of the New Testament, except for a scant few verses that might be interpreted as referring to a soul going to heaven after death.


Then again, we've been waiting a long time for those last days! Seems like the human race could be extinct by that time.

the scriptures are entirely different to what the churches teach, thats for sure.

You know you can calculate the time when the last days began. So not only do we have the 'sign' of the last days as given by Jesus in the gospels, but we can also calculate it. ;)
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
So we are deciding if 'life after death is physical?...or spiritual?

Physical resurrection?....more of this...forever?

It is written....
'Flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven.'

God is spirit....
Therefore, resurrection is spiritual.

'Do not conform to this world. Be transformed by it.'

I see no point in laying in a grave and rotting.
The resurrection is immediate.
When the last hour and your last breath are gone....
stand up from your body and declare....'it is finished'.
 

work in progress

Well-Known Member
the scriptures are entirely different to what the churches teach, thats for sure.
Many Biblical, especially textual scholars such as Bart Ehrman -- one I've been reading alot in recent years -- believe that the wide range of scriptures and apocryphal books found in early 1st and 2nd century Christian churches around the Roman Empire, indicates that there was a wide range of beliefs on core Christian doctrines. When the Church in Rome became the state church and received the power to decide and enforce doctrinal purity, they added in a lot of Roman religion and Greek philosophy to the mix. And that's when doctrines not found in the Bible, like the Trinity, and souls living on after death, became core Christian doctrines. Even during the middle ages, they were still teaching The Resurrection of the dead rather than disembodied souls living in heaven.

You know you can calculate the time when the last days began. So not only do we have the 'sign' of the last days as given by Jesus in the gospels, but we can also calculate it. ;)
No, every time someone comes up with an endtime chronology, they end up like Harold Camping! When I was young, and before I moved away from home to leave the Witnesses, they were still teaching that the end times would start sometime after the fall of 1975....supposedly 6000 years after the creation of Adam. So, all we had to wait for was a little bit longer until 6000 years after the creation of Eve...supposedly Jehovah's final creation, and the events leading to the Millenium would be under way.

I just wanted to add here that I believe there is clear evidence that the world and the human race is facing a real calamity that is pretty much ignored by most people, just as past civilizations - like the Romans, Mayans, Sumerians, Easter Islanders, which collapsed and had massive dieoffs with everyone running around wondering what hit them! The problem with end-of-the-world religions that thrive during perilous times, is that they offer no real solutions, and likely cause more harm by feeding complacency while everything is falling apart around us. I recall that when I was young, my father first became familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses in the mid 1960's, when they were strongly pushing a 1975 end time in their literature. He didn't actually join and drag the rest of us in until the early 70's, and I noticed that books on nuclear war risks or Paul Ehrlich's "Population Bomb" turned from sources of dread or at least concern, into sources of hope and inspiration that the end time events would soon arrive and Jesus would establish his earthly kingdom.

And, on the subject of 1975, I've been told that, since the WWI generation have all died off - that were supposed to see the return of God's Kingdom, they've gone to a more open-ended teaching on the subject. From my reading of the Gospels and the Epistles, the 1st century Christians thought they were living in the last days, and the later churches had to recreate themselves as permanent institutions, and find ways to make difficult decisions like how to conduct business, government and especially the ethics of warfare. That's why so many early theologians like Thomas Aquinas felt that they had to borrow or steal from Aristotle and other Greek philosophers to flesh out a Christian philosophy.
 
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gdemoss

servant
paul was writing to christians who were given the opportunity to rule with christ in the heavenly kingdom though. So for them, yes, a raising to spirit would occur.

But to the jewish people, their conviction was in a resurrection from the dead....to life in the flesh on earth. Do you remember the account when lazarus had died, and jesus told his sister mary that he would rise...her reply was:
John 11:23 jesus said to her: “your brother will rise.” 24 martha said to him: “i know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”
the reason why she believed in the physical resurrection is because the hebrew scriptures only speak of a physical resurrection. Until the new covenant came into effect (after jesus death) nobody could become a member of that heavenly kingdom and therefore nobody could be raised to spirit life. That is why jesus is called the 'firstborn from the dead' .... His resurrection was the first of its kind because all other resurrections recorded in the scriptures were to physical life...not spiritual.

People began entering into the Kingdom beginning with the baptism of John.
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luke 16:16)

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (1 Cor 15:50)

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. (Matt 8:11)

How do you account for these three being only resurrected to flesh and blood being in the Kingdom?

Jesus is called the firstborn from the dead because he is the only one who has been resurrected to date. The "first" resurrection of humans to life in their spiritual bodies doesn't happen until Jesus returns.

Jesus taught Nicodemus that he needed to be born again. As the teacher in Israel, Jesus expected that he should have already known and taught this fact.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
People began entering into the Kingdom beginning with the baptism of John.
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luke 16:16)

This is because John preached in preparation for the Messiah. 6 months after John began preaching, Jesus began his ministry. It was prophesied that someone would 'make the way' for the Messiah.
Matthew 3:3 In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Ju‧de′a, 2 saying: “REPENT, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near.” 3 This, in fact, is the one spoken of through Isaiah the prophet in these words: “Listen! Someone is crying out in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah, YOU people! Make his roads straight.’”

So from Johns preaching onward, Jews were being called to become members of the heavenly kingdom. Once Jesus began preaching, John's disciples were prepared to accept him as the Messiah and they became Jesus disciples.


Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (1 Cor 15:50)

And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. (Matt 8:11)
How do you account for these three being only resurrected to flesh and blood being in the Kingdom?

they will be among the earthly resurrected ones. Jesus words before he died was that 'no man has ascended into heaven' at John 3:13
So those men were not already in heaven, they are still waiting to be resurrected back to life on earth.

Jesus is called the firstborn from the dead because he is the only one who has been resurrected to date. The "first" resurrection of humans to life in their spiritual bodies doesn't happen until Jesus returns.

that is true, however, Jesus has already returned and so from that time on, the annointed christians, such as the Apostles back in the first century and others, are already in heaven, the first resurrection is still in progress and wont end until all the annointed christians are in heaven.

Jesus taught Nicodemus that he needed to be born again. As the teacher in Israel, Jesus expected that he should have already known and taught this fact.

The Jews back then had a physical fulfillment of prophecy in mind....they still do. Many thought that the throne of David was going to be restored and Jesus would break the Roman occupation and free Isreal from slavery to Rome.

The reason is because the heavenly kingdom was not directly spoken of by the prophets of old....they told of the earthly fulfillment only. Thats why there is so much written about the earth and animals and people all living at peace without war and the dead coming to life in the hebrew scriptures.

It was Jesus who shed light on the heavenly kingdom and the new covenant that would see some Isrealites sitting as kings in the heavenly kingdom. But until that time, the jews only had information about how the messiah would benefit those living on the earth because all of those isrealites (Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Moses, King David etc) will be resurrected back to life on earth and live in the earthly paradise.
 
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Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
No, every time someone comes up with an endtime chronology, they end up like Harold Camping! When I was young, and before I moved away from home to leave the Witnesses, they were still teaching that the end times would start sometime after the fall of 1975....supposedly 6000 years after the creation of Adam. So, all we had to wait for was a little bit longer until 6000 years after the creation of Eve...supposedly Jehovah's final creation, and the events leading to the Millenium would be under way.

there is no way to determine the day or hour for the time when God actually steps in and wars with the nations. Even Jesus said at Mark 13:32 “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. 33 Keep looking, keep awake, for YOU do not know when the appointed time is
But because people are in expectation of 'Gods Day', they do try and work out when it could all happen and this has been the case with JW's in the past. The 1975 and 1914 were the two occasions when they thought the end would occur, but they've learned that there is nothing in the bible that can identify the date because God has not provided that information....so they've never done so since.

But i have to say that the WT did not make an official case for 1975 as being the year for Armageddon. They never did and i've checked the literature going back to a few years before 1975 and all i found was repeated phrases such as "Will 1975 be the year for Armageaddon?, we will have to wait and see...we dont know for sure...it could be the year... it might occur in 1975" The WT did state that 1975 was the year that marked 6,000 years since the creation of Adam....and it did! But there was one more creation AFTER Adam that many had not taking into consideration....Eve. She was created some years later and the bible does not give the number of years so there is no way of knowing exactly when Gods 7th day began. Since God is resting on the 7th day, it is assumed that when he acts again, it will be the beginning of the 8th day...but that could be wrong, we dont really know until its been revealed and it may not be something God wants us to know.


I just wanted to add here that I believe there is clear evidence that the world and the human race is facing a real calamity that is pretty much ignored by most people, just as past civilizations - like the Romans, Mayans, Sumerians, Easter Islanders, which collapsed and had massive dieoffs with everyone running around wondering what hit them! The problem with end-of-the-world religions that thrive during perilous times, is that they offer no real solutions, and likely cause more harm by feeding complacency while everything is falling apart around us. I recall that when I was young, my father first became familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses in the mid 1960's, when they were strongly pushing a 1975 end time in their literature. He didn't actually join and drag the rest of us in until the early 70's, and I noticed that books on nuclear war risks or Paul Ehrlich's "Population Bomb" turned from sources of dread or at least concern, into sources of hope and inspiration that the end time events would soon arrive and Jesus would establish his earthly kingdom.

It was exciting times, (i wasnt around at that time) and that excitement caused some to speculate that Armageddon would come in that year. I've talked to some witnesses who went through that time and they look back on it now and laugh at themselves. I think they all learnt a valuable lesson in not trying to predict when God will act....and they've never done it since. We really just have to keep in expectation that it is coming soon like Jesus said. I'd rather be with an organization that is prepared for it rather then one who is not in expectation that it is 'just around the corner'

We can certainly see how the world has deteriorated, not only morally but also physically. The earth is being polluted, disease and cancer is affecting millions and that is likely due to the pollutants we breath and eat, war has never stopped, there are enough bombs to blow the whole planet up, the economy is up the creek. .... we certainly cant deny that we need some help from above and that is really what putting our faith in Christ is about. We cant get out of this mess on our own and we need a higher power. The bible offers such a solution. To us, it is the only way out of this mess.



And, on the subject of 1975, I've been told that, since the WWI generation have all died off - that were supposed to see the return of God's Kingdom, they've gone to a more open-ended teaching on the subject.

there has been an adjustment in our understanding of the 'generation' that Jesus mentioned at Matthew "and this generation will be no means pass away until all these things occur"

Back in Jesus day, when he used the term 'generation' it applied to all those who were living during that time...so it didnt apply to a specific age of people, but to all those who were alive, young and old.
It will be the same during the 'last days'... the generation will be all those who are alive at the time, young and old. It really should be understood to refer to a contemporary group of people rather then a group of people born at a specific time.

So all who are alive during the great tribulation are the ones who the words "this generation will be no mean pass away until all these things occur" apply to.


From my reading of the Gospels and the Epistles, the 1st century Christians thought they were living in the last days, and the later churches had to recreate themselves as permanent institutions, and find ways to make difficult decisions like how to conduct business, government and especially the ethics of warfare. That's why so many early theologians like Thomas Aquinas felt that they had to borrow or steal from Aristotle and other Greek philosophers to flesh out a Christian philosophy.

Those people were living in a 'last days' scenario because it was in 70 CE that rome destroyed jerusalem and killed 1million jews in the process. That destruction is what Jesus was prophesying here:

Matthew 24:1 Departing now, Jesus was on his way from the temple, but his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 In response he said to them: “Do YOU not behold all these things? Truly I say to YOU, By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down... 15 “Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) 16 then let those in Ju‧de′a begin fleeing to the mountains. ... 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short"

Luke 19:43 Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification with pointed stakes and will encircle you and distress you from every side, 44 and they will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.

It has a greater fulfillment to come during the great tribulation.
 
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work in progress

Well-Known Member
The 1975 and 1914 were the two occasions when they thought the end would occur, but they've learned that there is nothing in the bible that can identify the date because God has not provided that information....so they've never done so since.
If we go all the way back to the time of Charles Taze Russell and the International Bible Students, they set the date for the end times on more than a few occasions over the years. During the brief few years that I was a baptized member, the Watchtower literature was teaching that 1914 marked the year of the beginning of the last generation before the new millenium, and 1975 or shortly thereafter, would mark the time when the Tribulation would begin, and the end time events would culminate with Christ's return. I discovered afterwards that Russell had set 1874 as the original start of the final generation, and 1914 would be the end. Later revisionists made note of WWI starting in that year and declared something along the lines of 'well, we were slightly off, but considering what happened in 1914, we were partially correct.'

But i have to say that the WT did not make an official case for 1975 as being the year for Armageddon. They never did and i've checked the literature going back to a few years before 1975 and all i found was repeated phrases such as "Will 1975 be the year for Armageaddon?, we will have to wait and see...we dont know for sure...it could be the year... it might occur in 1975"
Well, actually, you have to go back quite a few years before 1975 to find books and Watchtower and Awake magazine articles declaring 1975 would mark the beginning of the end times.

In 1966, the Society published a red covered book which my father bought several years before actually joining, and I still have in my collection...just in case any Witnesses come knocking on my door, and I have a chance to show it to them -- it's called "Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God," and it contained the first Biblical chronology produced by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society near the end of the book. At the bottom of page 28 it has a commentary about the chronology produced by Bishop Usher:" Since the time of Ussher intensive study of Bible chronology has been carried on. In this twentieth century an independent study has been carried on that does not blindly follow some traditional chronological calculations of Christendom, and the published timetable resulting from this independent study gives the date of man's creation as 4026 B.C.E. According to this trustworth Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E.

So six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yes, within this generation."

Continuing on page 30:"How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make of this coming seventh period of a thousand years a sabbath period of rest and release, a great Jubilee sabbath for the proclaiming of liberty throughout the earth to all its inhabitants! This would be most timely for mankind. It would also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember, mankind has yet ahead of it what the last book of the Holy Bible speaks of as the reign of Jesus Christ over earth for a thousand years, the millennial reign of Christ."

Skipping a paragraph down:"Shortly, within our own generation, the symbolical trumpet will be sounded by divine power, proclaiming "liberty in the land to all its inhabitants." (Leviticus 25:8-10)

The WT did state that 1975 was the year that marked 6,000 years since the creation of Adam....and it did! But there was one more creation AFTER Adam that many had not taking into consideration....Eve. She was created some years later and the bible does not give the number of years so there is no way of knowing exactly when Gods 7th day began. Since God is resting on the 7th day, it is assumed that when he acts again, it will be the beginning of the 8th day...but that could be wrong, we dont really know until its been revealed and it may not be something God wants us to know.
Yes, I already mentioned that in the leadup to 1975, they were cautioning against thinking 1975 was the end....pointing to Eve being the final creation at an undetermined time afterwards. But they were teaching that some of the generation which saw the events of 1914 take place, would not all pass away. That's the teaching that they've had to climb down from as the 1914 generation would all be over 110 years old by now, if they are still alive.

It was exciting times, (i wasnt around at that time) and that excitement caused some to speculate that Armageddon would come in that year. I've talked to some witnesses who went through that time and they look back on it now and laugh at themselves. I think they all learnt a valuable lesson in not trying to predict when God will act....and they've never done it since. We really just have to keep in expectation that it is coming soon like Jesus said. I'd rather be with an organization that is prepared for it rather then one who is not in expectation that it is 'just around the corner'
Well, here's the problem: back in June of 1975 when I graduated from high school, young Witnesses were being told to forget about higher education and become pioneers after we graduated, rather than go on to university or college for further career opportunities. A lot of J.W.'s never did get to where they could have been. Back then college and university tuitions were dirt cheap compared to what young people have to pay now to go to college. But, we were told that the time was too short to worry about such things.

We can certainly see how the world has deteriorated, not only morally but also physically. The earth is being polluted, disease and cancer is affecting millions and that is likely due to the pollutants we breath and eat, war has never stopped, there are enough bombs to blow the whole planet up, the economy is up the creek. .... we certainly cant deny that we need some help from above and that is really what putting our faith in Christ is about. We cant get out of this mess on our own and we need a higher power. The bible offers such a solution. To us, it is the only way out of this mess.
To me, the pre-millennial doctrine makes the overall situation a little worse, because it instills a sense of complacency among adherents. I see our present situation as something unique in human history -- we've never had this many people on earth before, using so much of the planet's biosphere, accelerating the number of extinctions by at least 100 fold, changing the chemical makeup of the atmosphere by increasing CO2 levels by 40% over the last 150 years, and running low on the fossil fuels that have provided the cheap source of energy to make a 7 billion world population possible. And if the ecologists and environmentalists are right, we are facing an apocalypse, while most people remain oblivious to what we are facing over the coming decades, and a few throw up their hands and expect deliverance from above! If, as is usually the case - God helps those who help themselves, we're in big trouble.

there has been an adjustment in our understanding of the 'generation' that Jesus mentioned at Matthew "and this generation will be no means pass away until all these things occur"

Back in Jesus day, when he used the term 'generation' it applied to all those who were living during that time...so it didnt apply to a specific age of people, but to all those who were alive, young and old.
It will be the same during the 'last days'... the generation will be all those who are alive at the time, young and old. It really should be understood to refer to a contemporary group of people rather then a group of people born at a specific time.

So all who are alive during the great tribulation are the ones who the words "this generation will be no mean pass away until all these things occur" apply to.

Those people were living in a 'last days' scenario because it was in 70 CE that rome destroyed jerusalem and killed 1million jews in the process. That destruction is what Jesus was prophesying here:

Matthew 24:1 
But, Matthew 24 aside, there a few NT verses that are quite specific, and are not referring to the destruction of the Temple -- such as Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
echoed in Luke 9:27
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
and Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

These are supposedly quotes from Jesus, telling the disciples that 'I'll be back before the last ones here have died'. That created a problem in the 2nd century with followers asking what happened to the 2nd Coming. That would be a likely explanation for verses like 2 Peter 3:4 about scoffers who were mocking them:

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.​
 
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