Hell and the Prophets

[Madhuri]

Hi guys,
I watched Exodus yesterday and was reminded of a question I've had for a while but keep forgetting about.

My understanding of your beliefs is that prior to Jesus appearance on Earth, absolutely everyone was damned to eternity in hell. But after he sacrificed his life, those who accept him as their saviour have access to eternity in heaven.

Firstly, is this correct?
If so, does this mean the prophets like Noah and Moses as well as the Hebrew people taken out of Egypt were also damned to hell?

 

[nazz]

Hi guys,
I watched Exodus yesterday and was reminded of a question I've had for a while but keep forgetting about.

My understanding of your beliefs is that prior to Jesus appearance on Earth, absolutely everyone was damned to eternity in hell. But after he sacrificed his life, those who accept him as their saviour have access to eternity in heaven.

Firstly, is this correct?
If so, does this mean the prophets like Noah and Moses as well as the Hebrew people taken out of Egypt were also damned to hell?

In a weird way that sounds perfectly right to me. But the way I am thinking about it is probably nothing like what you had in mind.

 

[Neo Deist]

Hi guys,
I watched Exodus yesterday and was reminded of a question I've had for a while but keep forgetting about.

My understanding of your beliefs is that prior to Jesus appearance on Earth, absolutely everyone was damned to eternity in hell. But after he sacrificed his life, those who accept him as their saviour have access to eternity in heaven.

Firstly, is this correct?
If so, does this mean the prophets like Noah and Moses as well as the Hebrew people taken out of Egypt were also damned to hell?

I grew up as a Southern Baptist so I can explain it from that perspective.

Everyone that died prior to Jesus went to the grave. Everyone that died after Jesus went to the grave. During the resurrection that Revelation 20 and 21 speak of, all will be judged according to their deeds and then sent to paradise on new earth, or cast into the lake of fire.

Hell, which comes from the Greek hades and the Hebrew sheol, should simply mean the grave. However, it has been applied (via the KJV) to a place of burning and torment. The closest thing to that in the NT is Gehenna, which would be the lake of fire. Protestant sermons are full of hell, fire and brimstone scare tactics.

 

[Pegg]

Hi guys,
I watched Exodus yesterday and was reminded of a question I've had for a while but keep forgetting about.

My understanding of your beliefs is that prior to Jesus appearance on Earth, absolutely everyone was damned to eternity in hell. But after he sacrificed his life, those who accept him as their saviour have access to eternity in heaven.

Firstly, is this correct?
If so, does this mean the prophets like Noah and Moses as well as the Hebrew people taken out of Egypt were also damned to hell?

HI Madhuri,

The bible word translated as 'hell' is 'sheol' .... in hebrew, it literally means the common grave of mankind or the place where the dead are buried. Both the good and bad are said to go down into sheol/hell

Its true that many christians teach the idea that 'hell' is something different, but this idea does not come from the bible. So the prophets of old, when speaking of sheol/hell, had the common grave in mind and not some other kind of place.

To them, they believed that everyone, the good and wicked go to the same place, sheol to await the time when God would call them out and restore them to life. So the teaching of a christian should actually be that all those prior to Jesus time will be restored to life in paradise during the Millennial rule of Christ.

 

[Shiranui117]

Hi guys,
I watched Exodus yesterday and was reminded of a question I've had for a while but keep forgetting about.

My understanding of your beliefs is that prior to Jesus appearance on Earth, absolutely everyone was damned to eternity in hell. But after he sacrificed his life, those who accept him as their saviour have access to eternity in heaven.

Firstly, is this correct?
If so, does this mean the prophets like Noah and Moses as well as the Hebrew people taken out of Egypt were also damned to hell?

They were consigned to an eternity in Hades, but not what we now call "Hell". Hades (aka Sheol in Hebrew) is the realm of the dead, where all existed as shades. When Jesus died on the Cross, He basically did a massive jail-break in Hades, loosening the power of death over mankind, and opening up the doors of Paradise for us.

And yes, everyone, including Moses, Noah, the people who died in the flood, and the Hebrews who fled Egypt were all in Hades before Christ came down to save them.

 

[Ingledsva]

Hi guys,
I watched Exodus yesterday and was reminded of a question I've had for a while but keep forgetting about.

My understanding of your beliefs is that prior to Jesus appearance on Earth, absolutely everyone was damned to eternity in hell. But after he sacrificed his life, those who accept him as their saviour have access to eternity in heaven.

Firstly, is this correct?
If so, does this mean the prophets like Noah and Moses as well as the Hebrew people taken out of Egypt were also damned to hell?

You will have to ask one of our Jewish members on this one.

Someone mentioned they went to the grave, - but Sheol (the grave) was a holding place for all people until the end, and final Judgment.

That implies more then just a grave.

Also, supposedly the Hebrew were YHVH's special people, - so why would they be damned forever to the grave. There is no Hell in Tanakh or NT.


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[Madhuri]

You will have to ask one of our Jewish members on this one.

Someone mentioned they went to the grave, - but Sheol (the grave) was a holding place for all people until the end, and final Judgment.

That implies more then just a grave.

Also, supposedly the Hebrew were YHVH's special people, - so why would they be damned forever to the grave. There is no Hell in Tanakh or NT.


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Thanks, it's just that I am looking for the Christian perspective specifically.

 

[jeager106]

Jesus was a Jew. The ancient Jews ( inc. Jesus) would have had no reason to believe there was a "hell", as in the image of Dante's Inferno, a place of torture, burning sulpher, fire, torment w/o hope forever. Based on a lot of study I feel this "hell" of enternal conscious torment is a myth promoted by a lot of "christian" leaders to, well, scare hell out of church memebers. That place of eternal torment brings no glory to God. The word hell itself didn't exist in Hebrew, Greek, or Aramic languages, it's old English used centuries after Jesus live, preached,& died.
Hell is, as has been so well said, simply the common grave.
About the "good" Christians flowing up to some heavenly dimension for eternity singing praises to God 24/7. That sounds more like hell to me.
God created mankind to live in a paradise earth, to "subdue the Earth and make of it a paradise of pleasure". That was never fullfilled. Man screwed it up.
Why then would God want all "good" to float off to heaven and abandon this wonderful planet he created for us?
It makes no sense at all.
Rebutal is fine as I'm here to learn. I could be wrong.

 

[Madhuri]

Jesus was a Jew. The ancient Jews ( inc. Jesus) would have had no reason to believe there was a "hell", as in the image of Dante's Inferno, a place of torture, burning sulpher, fire, torment w/o hope forever. Based on a lot of study I feel this "hell" of enternal conscious torment is a myth promoted by a lot of "christian" leaders to, well, scare hell out of church memebers. That place of eternal torment brings no glory to God. The word hell itself didn't exist in Hebrew, Greek, or Aramic languages, it's old English used centuries after Jesus live, preached,& died.
Hell is, as has been so well said, simply the common grave.
About the "good" Christians flowing up to some heavenly dimension for eternity singing praises to God 24/7. That sounds more like hell to me.
God created mankind to live in a paradise earth, to "subdue the Earth and make of it a paradise of pleasure". That was never fullfilled. Man screwed it up.
Why then would God want all "good" to float off to heaven and abandon this wonderful planet he created for us?
It makes no sense at all.
Rebutal is fine as I'm here to learn. I could be wrong.

I know that there are Christians who believe in a Heavenly kingdom as well as those who believe that there will simply be heaven on Earth. Is there any support in the Bible for the notion that humans will go to a Heaven beyond this planet?

 

[jeager106]

I know that there are Christians who believe in a Heavenly kingdom as well as those who believe that there will simply be heaven on Earth. Is there any support in the Bible for the notion that humans will go to a Heaven beyond this planet?

Short answer: NO.

 

[Kolibri]

Hello again Madhuri,

While the Bible does not touch on life moving on into the physical heavens beyond this planet, we are still in the 7th day following the 6 creative days used to prepare the earth for human habitation. It seems that the 7th day will end with God again being able to say everything is 'very good.' The Bible is silent on what will happen after the 7th day ends other than that all that God wanted accomplished by the end of the 7th day will certainly happen - including filling the earth with descendants of Adam who will never have to die (nor be disabled, nor have their bodies break down after they reach their prime). His purpose has not changed even if he needed to adjust to new circumstances - the rebellion and the issue of God's right to rule to be settled once for all time. (Genesis 1:28,31; Isaiah 55:1; Revelation 21:3,4)

What new marvels will we see after that? The Bible is silent. Even so it claims that it is complete enough "so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Tim 3:16,17).

What is also missing from the record is what went into creating the physical and spiritual heavens. Genesis 1:1 simply says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Then in verse 2 it fast-forwards to the state our planet was in at the beginning of the 1st creative day.

(We are also told that Jesus had a part in working alongside his Father to create all other things. (Genesis 1:26; Proverbs 8:22,30; John 1:1; Colossians 1:14-17))

 

[Kolibri]

Regarding the OP. I was made aware of a scripture recently that I never noticed before. I mean I knew of Isaiah 25:8 but somehow missed verse 7. Let me please quote both here from the NWT (2013 Revision) Bible.

7 In this mountain he will do away with the shroud that is enveloping all the peoples And the covering (or "veil") that is woven over all the nations. 8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will wipe away the tears from all faces. The reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, For Jehovah himself has spoken it.

This shroud that covers all mankind currently is a death sentence. As it stands now we all die. But the Patriarch Job did not expect it to be everlasting, even praying to go to Sheol (Hebrew equivalent for Hades).

Job 14:13-15 Oh that in the Grave (or "Sheol") you would conceal me, That you would hide me until your anger passes by, that you would set a time limit for me and remember me! If a man dies, can he live again? I will wait all the days of my compulsory service Until my relief comes. You will call, and I will answer you. You will long (or "yearn") for the work of your hands.

Abraham also knew death to be temporary even though at his time there had not yet been any resurrections. Hebrew 11:17-19 talks about when he was tested, he as good as offered up his son Issac. Because Abraham knew God has promised him that "What will be called your offspring (or "seed") will be through Issac," Abraham reasoned that God was able and would raise Issac from the dead to fulfill his promise.

 

[Kolibri]

I know that there are Christians who believe in a Heavenly kingdom as well as those who believe that there will simply be heaven on Earth. Is there any support in the Bible for the notion that humans will go to a Heaven beyond this planet?

I just realized you may be asking about spiritual heavens and not physical heavens. Regarding spiritual heavens the answer is "yes" and "no."

Yes, humans will go to heaven. Rev 14:3, 4 talks about 144,000 who "were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and the Lamb."

No, they will no longer be human when they get there. 1 Corinthians 15:40-50 says "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom." Those that go to the spiritual heavens will be given a new spirit body suitable for their new home.

 

[Ingledsva]

Regarding the OP. I was made aware of a scripture recently that I never noticed before. I mean I knew of Isaiah 25:8 but somehow missed verse 7. Let me please quote both here from the NWT (2013 Revision) Bible.

7 In this mountain he will do away with the shroud that is enveloping all the peoples And the covering (or "veil") that is woven over all the nations. 8 He will swallow up death forever, And the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will wipe away the tears from all faces. The reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, For Jehovah himself has spoken it.

This shroud that covers all mankind currently is a death sentence. As it stands now we all die. But the Patriarch Job did not expect it to be everlasting, even praying to go to Sheol (Hebrew equivalent for Hades).

Job 14:13-15 Oh that in the Grave (or "Sheol") you would conceal me, That you would hide me until your anger passes by, that you would set a time limit for me and remember me! If a man dies, can he live again? I will wait all the days of my compulsory service Until my relief comes. You will call, and I will answer you. You will long (or "yearn") for the work of your hands.

Abraham also knew death to be temporary even though at his time there had not yet been any resurrections. Hebrew 11:17-19 talks about when he was tested, he as good as offered up his son Issac. Because Abraham knew God has promised him that "What will be called your offspring (or "seed") will be through Issac," Abraham reasoned that God was able and would raise Issac from the dead to fulfill his promise.

See #6 above. Sheol is just a holding place until End Events, and then a Final JUDGMENT.

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[Ingledsva]

I just realized you may be asking about spiritual heavens and not physical heavens. Regarding spiritual heavens the answer is "yes" and "no."

Yes, humans will go to heaven. Rev 14:3, 4 talks about 144,000 who "were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and the Lamb."

No, they will no longer be human when they get there. 1 Corinthians 15:40-50 says "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom." Those that go to the spiritual heavens will be given a new spirit body suitable for their new home.

Actually those 144,000 are Hebrew.

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[ChristineES]

Hi guys,
I watched Exodus yesterday and was reminded of a question I've had for a while but keep forgetting about.

My understanding of your beliefs is that prior to Jesus appearance on Earth, absolutely everyone was damned to eternity in hell. But after he sacrificed his life, those who accept him as their saviour have access to eternity in heaven.

Firstly, is this correct?
If so, does this mean the prophets like Noah and Moses as well as the Hebrew people taken out of Egypt were also damned to hell?

No way. I don't think it would be right to think that Abraham, David, all the prophets, etc. are in some kind of hell. That makes no logical sense, in regards to my faith.

 

[Madhuri]

Actually those 144,000 are Hebrew.

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Interesting! Does it specify this?

 

[Kolibri]

Revelation 7:3-8 also mentions the 144,000 by number and breaks them down as 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. However there is a couple of notable differences between this list and the 12 tribes of historical Israel. In historical Israel, Reuben lost his right as firstborn and it went to Joseph. So Joseph was actually represented by 2 tribes thru his sons Manasseh and Ephraim. Also Levi was not counted as a tribe with a land inheritance, and thus was not listed among the 12. (Historically the Levites were set apart as the priestly class. No other tribe was allowed in. Yet all those listed in Revelation become priests).

The list of 12 tribes in Revelation 7 Includes Joseph along with his 2 sons and Levi but is missing Dan.

For this reason it seems likely that the 144,000 is not solely Jews by birth, but the spiritual Israel of God that includes all those that are Jews by nature of being called to be both kings and priests via a circumcision of the heart.

Correction:In Revelation Ephraim is not listed. Evidently here Joseph represents Ephraim. Still Levi is added and Dan is missing from the list of 12.

 

[Thruve]

It makes one think if one can be saved in the afterlife. I'm pretty sure it's a big fat yea.

Also, we're seeing the timeline from our perspective. "Sins past and present", anyone?

 

[Ingledsva]

Interesting! Does it specify this?

Yes it does. 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes = 144,000.

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

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