Hell: Eternal Suffering or Temporary Punishment

[ἀλήθεια]

Since someone raised this question on another thread, and I could foresee a reply from me as taking the thread pretty far off topic, I thought I'd start a new thread instead. Basically, the question was, "According to your belief system, is Hell one of eternal suffering or a place of temporary punishment as a means of correcting behavior?"
According to LDS doctrine, when a person dies, he does not immediately go to Heaven. Instead, the spirit which leaves his body at death is received into an intermediate state of existance known as the Spirit World. The Spirit World is divided into two parts: Paradise for the righteous (including such people as the thief who repented on the cross and whom Christ told He say that day in Paradise) and the Spirit Prison for the wicked (which place Christ was said to have visited in spirit form during the three days His body lay in the tomb after His crucifixion). I have heard the Spirit World compared to Purgatory (which would be a familiar concept to you, as a Catholic). I suppose they're similar in a way, but they're also different.
We believe that everyone who has ever lived will remain in the Spirit World after their deaths, until they are resurrected and are called to stand before God at the Last Judgment. While they are there, they will have the opportunity to continue to learn and grow spiritually. Those who never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ (i.e. people in parts of the world where Christianity had not spread during their lifetimes or people who lived in countries where Christianity was forbidden to be taught) will have the opportunity to hear it in the Spirit World and to accept Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice on their behalf.

But isn’t the gospel that you are referring really the entire set of Mormon teachings? Don’t members of all other denominations, as well as a few not-so-good Mormons, have to go to the Spirit Prison/Hell to suffer for their sins?

The wicked -- who will be spending their time in the Spirit World in a state of agony and torment because of their sins -- will undoubtedly feel as if they are in Prison or Hell. This state of torment need not be permanent, though. As they come to a realization that they can be forgiven for their sins, gain the faith necessary to believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior, and repent of their past wrongdoings, they will be released from Prison/Hell and be permitted to enjoy the peace and rest of those in Paradise.
When at last every single person who has ever lived has had the opportunity to hear and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ -- either during this life or in the Spirit World -- they will be judged and held accountable for their choices and ultimate decision. They will then be admitted into Heaven with their newly resurrected, immortal bodies. The Latter-day Saints can be said to have the biggest Heaven and the littlest Hell of any Christian denomination. We believe that almost everyone who has ever lived will ultimately be received into Heaven, but that Heaven cannot be thought of as a one-size-fits-all kind of place. We believe in differing "degrees of glory" within Heaven, and that people will end up spending eternity in whichever one they are worthy of. Even the worse people, though, the ones who never accepted Christ while in the Spirit Prison, will not be banished to Hell. By the time the Last Judgment comes to pass, they, having rejected Christ's willingness to suffer for them, will have been made to pay the price for their disobedience and rebellion. They, as God's children, will be given a portion of the reward He had in store for them, just not anywhere near what they might have received had they been the slightest bit interested.

Are you saying that people who eternally reject Christ and the Bible will still go to heaven and live forever in God’s Presence? Is it not a sin to reject Christ? " He that believeth not is condemned already." (John 3)

The only people who we believe will end up in Hell for eternity are those who, having received a perfect knowledge of God, want no part of Him and deny everything they which they know for sure to be true.
I hope this helps you understand the LDS doctrine about Heaven and Hell a little better.

Do some people who are told the truth in Spirit Prison have a perfect knowledge and some do not? Why are there different degrees of knowledge? Why don’t all the people who end up in heaven have a perfect knowledge of God? Isn't that purpose of preaching to the spirits in the Mormon Spirit Prison?

 

[AK4]

But isn’t the gospel that you are referring really the entire set of Mormon teachings? Don’t members of all other denominations, as well as a few not-so-good Mormons, have to go to the Spirit Prison/Hell to suffer for their sins?


Are you saying that people who eternally reject Christ and the Bible will still go to heaven and live forever in God’s Presence? Is it not a sin to reject Christ? " He that believeth not is condemned already." (John 3)



Do some people who are told the truth in Spirit Prison have a perfect knowledge and some do not? Why are there different degrees of knowledge? Why don’t all the people who end up in heaven have a perfect knowledge of God? Isn't that purpose of preaching to the spirits in the Mormon Spirit Prison?

No its not a mormon teaching that God will save all men. Eternally being barbequed in a hell is an anceint egytian teaching though, passed on to the greeks then passed on to the catholic church as a means to try to control the people. Heres a response i gave someone else.

Dang i did a response earlier, a long one but the system was all messed up and it didnt save the post to answer you dewey.

Quote: from someone else
Thanks for your input ak4 but for all you said you did not answer my question at the start and at the end of my post. If all are to get life why does God do any judging at all?

This time i will give a short answer. Without all the scripture, but know everything i put here is backed up with scripture
Why does God do any judging at all?-- He wants all his children to be like Jesus, holy and righteous.
God takes responsibility for His creation and therefore He will correct everything in it. He is responsible, we are accountable. Mankind feels they have a free will that is free from any cause, basically eliminating God and sitting on His throne in His temple. We have choices, but those choices are never free frome any cause (uh-oh i feel another discussion coming )Basically saying their will can thwart the Will of God. For this and other things we will be held accountable.
You can judge yourself now and not go to/through the GWT judgement or let God judge you more severly in the LOF were you will be purified by fire.
God judges to set things right. Not to destroy forever. You may be quoting from a bad translation.
Imagine this scenario:GWT Judgement

god: You are judged guilty and now i will destroy you forever (or barbeque you for those who believe in a hell). Yeah I know I created you for dishonor and you had no choice in that matter and yes I know I said numerous times in my word that I am a god of love and rich in mercies, but you have served your purpose of dishonor. Yes I did create creation in subject of vanity, not willingly, and with hope, but Im sorry, well not really because you knew my standards and you didnt live up to them. You fail short here. See you were timid and fearful and because of that i must annihilate you (or barbeque) in my very hot and steamy lake of fire that is unquenchable and the worm never rots. Its final. You had one shot and blew. Yes,yes, I judge in righteousness and this fair. I created you for dishonor and that was your purpose. You have no other purpose and now i will focus on the 10% of all humanity that has ever lived that i gave my grace to and they followed. I love them more than i love you and they are my favorites now. Thank you for doing everything i wanted you to and now good(bad)-bye!! ( I didnt capitolize god in any of that because that is not a god i would worship)

Dwell on that scenario for a minute and ask yourself again when reading those passages in 2 peter and throughout the bilble if people are going to be destroyed everlasting and that is a god of love.

 

[Heneni]

Hell, eternal suffering or temporary punishment?

Its temporary unless you'd like to extend your contract and make it permanent.

 

[michel]

I recently was at a church in which the priest gave us to understand that heaven can be "where we are", right here - on earth. His contention was that if we are full of love, and try our best to be genuine, and "love our neighbour", then that is "Heaven" (albeit on Earth).

Maybe hell is the opposite of what I have described?

 

[AK4]

I recently was at a church in which the priest gave us to understand that heaven can be "where we are", right here - on earth. His contention was that if we are full of love, and try our best to be genuine, and "love our neighbour", then that is "Heaven" (albeit on Earth).

Maybe hell is the opposite of what I have described?

God hasnt opened my eyes fully to this yet, but from what I have learned from scripture, heaven is here on earth and is a "state of mind". This how Jesus was able to be here on earth and in heaven at the same time. Also this is how He will be when He returns. Think about it. He returns to earth to establish His kingdom. Heaven is a place somewhere in outer space on another rock.

 

[AK4]

Oops i meant, Heaven is not a place somewhere in outer space on another rock.

 

[AK4]

Since someone raised this question on another thread, and I could foresee a reply from me as taking the thread pretty far off topic, I thought I'd start a new thread instead. Basically, the question was, "According to your belief system, is Hell one of eternal suffering or a place of temporary punishment as a means of correcting behavior?"



According to LDS doctrine, when a person dies, he does not immediately go to Heaven. Instead, the spirit which leaves his body at death is received into an intermediate state of existance known as the Spirit World. The Spirit World is divided into two parts: Paradise for the righteous (including such people as the thief who repented on the cross and whom Christ told He say that day in Paradise) and the Spirit Prison for the wicked (which place Christ was said to have visited in spirit form during the three days His body lay in the tomb after His crucifixion). I have heard the Spirit World compared to Purgatory (which would be a familiar concept to you, as a Catholic). I suppose they're similar in a way, but they're also different.

We believe that everyone who has ever lived will remain in the Spirit World after their deaths, until they are resurrected and are called to stand before God at the Last Judgment. While they are there, they will have the opportunity to continue to learn and grow spiritually. Those who never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ (i.e. people in parts of the world where Christianity had not spread during their lifetimes or people who lived in countries where Christianity was forbidden to be taught) will have the opportunity to hear it in the Spirit World and to accept Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice on their behalf.

The wicked -- who will be spending their time in the Spirit World in a state of agony and torment because of their sins -- will undoubtedly feel as if they are in Prison or Hell. This state of torment need not be permanent, though. As they come to a realization that they can be forgiven for their sins, gain the faith necessary to believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior, and repent of their past wrongdoings, they will be released from Prison/Hell and be permitted to enjoy the peace and rest of those in Paradise.

When at last every single person who has ever lived has had the opportunity to hear and accept the gospel of Jesus Christ -- either during this life or in the Spirit World -- they will be judged and held accountable for their choices and ultimate decision. They will then be admitted into Heaven with their newly resurrected, immortal bodies. The Latter-day Saints can be said to have the biggest Heaven and the littlest Hell of any Christian denomination. We believe that almost everyone who has ever lived will ultimately be received into Heaven, but that Heaven cannot be thought of as a one-size-fits-all kind of place. We believe in differing "degrees of glory" within Heaven, and that people will end up spending eternity in whichever one they are worthy of. Even the worse people, though, the ones who never accepted Christ while in the Spirit Prison, will not be banished to Hell. By the time the Last Judgment comes to pass, they, having rejected Christ's willingness to suffer for them, will have been made to pay the price for their disobedience and rebellion. They, as God's children, will be given a portion of the reward He had in store for them, just not anywhere near what they might have received had they been the slightest bit interested.

The only people who we believe will end up in Hell for eternity are those who, having received a perfect knowledge of God, want no part of Him and deny everything they which they know for sure to be true.

I hope this helps you understand the LDS doctrine about Heaven and Hell a little better.

This is LDS belief! :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

 

[Katzpur]

This is LDS belief! :biglaugh::biglaugh::biglaugh:

Yes, it is. Do you think I'd have posted it if it weren't? You're very easily amused, aren't you? Do you actually have anything constructive to say, or are funny faces the best you can do?

 

[wmam]

With the two choices of the "OP" as to my belief I would have to say neither. You are not punished, you are just consumed by fire and made as though you never was. No where do I find that man will be made to suffer eternally. I guess if there must be a punishment then it must be the knowledge that one wouldn't be a partaker in eternal life.

 

[shadze]

rubbish eternal suffering is a pagan belief. Purgatory is not only scriptural it was the belief of the early church that Christ had saved all mankind .
not only does eternal suffering show a powerless god it also shows that god is not allknowing. For if this was the true future of mankind , then a
All knowing God would simply destroyed Adam and Eve . Thier certainly wasnt a loss off material. Lots of dirt and Spirit. The reality of the matter is
if god allowed eternal suffering, then most of his creation goes up in smoke. Thier is no reason for a All Knowing God to allow this. Adam and Eve
simply would not of left. My God has a rehabilitation plan. He sent his son to die for all mankind not a few. This way in the end God wins all.
He has a New Earth and Heaven with mankind worshipping him. No waste.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Even the worse people, though, the ones who never accepted Christ while in the Spirit Prison, will not be banished to Hell. By the time the Last Judgment comes to pass, they, having rejected Christ's willingness to suffer for them, will have been made to pay the price for their disobedience and rebellion.

So,buddha or gandhi will be in the lowest heaven,because he would have rebelled with christ and christian gospels.Is this correct?

 

[Katzpur]

So,buddha or gandhi will be in the lowest heaven,because he would have rebelled with christ and christian gospels.Is this correct?

According to LDS doctrine, Buddha and Gandhi were both good men, whom we believe to currently be in Paradise. Bhddha obviously never knew a thing about Jesus Christ and Gandhi was definitely not antagonistic to Jesus Christ. It's impossible to say where either one of these individuals is going to end up for two reasons: (1) We don't believe that a person's opportunity to accept Christ ends at death and (2) We don't make it a habit to play God. They would almost certainly not end up in the lowest of the three heavenly kingdoms, though, but in the middle one or higher.

 

[Metempsychosis]

According to LDS doctrine, Buddha and Gandhi were both good men, whom we believe to currently be in Paradise. Bhddha obviously never knew a thing about Jesus Christ and Gandhi was definitely not antagonistic to Jesus Christ. It's impossible to say where either one of these individuals is going to end up for two reasons: (1) We don't believe that a person's opportunity to accept Christ ends at death and (2) We don't make it a habit to play God. They would almost certainly not end up in the lowest of the three heavenly kingdoms, though, but in the middle one or higher.

But I just feel the highest level cannot be reached non-christians.Buddha in middle level.:sad4:

 

[Katzpur]

But I just feel the highest level cannot be reached non-christians.Buddha in middle level.:sad4:

What I said was that Buddha had no knowledge of Christ during his lifetime. He could have converted to Christianity in the meantime or may still convert. Remember, we believe that Buddha's spirit exists independently of his physical body which has long since turned to dust. He still has the ability to learn new things and find new truths. Who knows what such an enlightened individual has absorbed during the past 3000 years. Nobody knows his situation except God. At any rate, even the lowest heavenly kingdom beats the traditional Christian belief hands down.

 

[Metempsychosis]

What I said was that Buddha had no knowledge of Christ during his lifetime. He could have converted to Christianity in the meantime or may still convert. Remember, we believe that Buddha's spirit exists independently of his physical body which has long since turned to dust. He still has the ability to learn new things and find new truths. Who knows what such an enlightened individual has absorbed during the past 3000 years. Nobody knows his situation except God. At any rate, even the lowest heavenly kingdom beats the traditional Christian belief hands down.

Wat abt people born before christ?

 

[Katzpur]

Wat abt people born before christ?

Like Buddha, they'll all have a chance to learn about Him, understand His teachings and either accept or reject Him before they are judged. People who lived after Christ but in parts of the world where His teachings were unknown, including people alive today who live in countries where Christianity is forbidden will not be held accountable for not accepting Christianity during their mortal lifetimes.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Like Buddha, they'll all have a chance to learn about Him, understand His teachings and either accept or reject Him before they are judged. People who lived after Christ but in parts of the world where His teachings were unknown, including people alive today who live in countries where Christianity is forbidden will not be held accountable for not accepting Christianity during their mortal lifetimes.

Atheists would like be born in such a country.

 

[Katzpur]

Atheists would like be born in such a country.

Well, I suppose if you really wanted to move to Iran or Iraq, you could take steps towards making that happen. Besides, you really shouldn't paint us all with the same brush. Not all of us are as bad as some of us are.

 

[Metempsychosis]

I meant that atheist would be definite advantage since they be see christ and take his judgement and teaching after death.Because being on earth and believing in christ or any god would be more difficult,then giving the opportunity in the heaven.

Well, I suppose if you really wanted to move to Iran or Iraq,you could take steps towards making that happen.

Dont quote specific countries ,may be some people of those countries will be insulted.

Besides, you really shouldn't paint us all with the same brush. Not all of us are as bad as some of us are.

Who are the bad people .I dont know much on other sects.

 

[Katzpur]

I meant that atheist would be definite advantage since they be see christ and take his judgement and teaching after death.Because being on earth and believing in christ or any god would be more difficult,then giving the opportunity in the heaven.

I can understand why you'd say that, and to some extent I can agree. I believe that all of us will see things more clearly after we die than we do here. We all haul around a heck of a lot of cultural, religious, political, social baggage and we're not really able to see things as objectively as we think we are. When we're able to shed that baggage, we'll be able to make better decisions.

You did misunderstand me on one point, though. We don't believe that Jesus Christ is in Paradise now, teaching people His gospel. We believe He's in Heaven, and we don't believe that Paradise and Heaven are one and the same. Paradise is more a state of existence than it is a physical place. We believe that Jesus Christ's gospel is being taught there, but those who have already accepted Him and not by Him personally. Hence, it's still going to take a degree of faith that it wouldn't require if He were to personally be there to say, "Hey, I'm real."

Dont quote specific countries ,may be some countries and they may be insulted.

They may be insulted, but they certainly aren't pro-Christian and I'm sure they'd be first to acknowledge that.

Who told u that u are bad?

Nobody, I guess. I probably just misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that living someplace where there were no Christians sounded good to you. As a Christian, I guess I took that personally, because my Christianity does not involve trying to impose my beliefs on other people. Sorry I misinterpreted your comment.