Hell isn't literal, the worst punishment is that your conscience ceases to exist.

[dybmh]

i think that eventually all souls through many incarnations will repair self. mechanism of built in collective unconscious is at work.

I hope so.

 

[susanblange]

Well as far as I'm concerned ,I'm coming back again to continue on my soul path or spirituality, I know alot of people don't believe in reincarnation, I believe in it because I feel The Creator didn't create us just to have us cease to exist one day, life is everlasting and I am looking forward to my next life.I believe that whatever your belief is about death while you are living,is what you will experience when you die.MY mom believed in Heaven very strongly, she was a good example of a Christian and read that bible every night, so I have no doubt in my mind that she is in heaven having a beautiful eternity. Some people believe that they will be an angel , so they can help humanity, so that's what I believe she will be.Some belief that when you die you just cease to exist.So I guess it lights out for them.Some believe in ghosts to continue to visit were they go. I think God has no problem with honoring what we believe.I wonder what the people who believe and focus on hell, is going do when they die. That's a scary thought.

I do believe in reincarnation and Heaven and Hell. If there is an incarnation (of God) there can also be reincarnation. I know of seven people who have been reincarnated. They are Elijah (the Prophet), Gabriel and Michael (the Arch Angels), David (the King), Deborah (the Judge), and on the side of the enemy, Adam and Jesus. The last two were kicked out of Heaven. The other five have a role to play in the end times. I had a vision of my own death, and I know there is a Heaven and a Hell. The death of the soul/body is permanent as well as the death of the spirit. You can only be reincarnated if you go to Heaven.

 

[SugarOcean]

I was reading Miguel de Unamuno who was a spanish Catholic thinker and he says something very interesting which is that given our longing as a species to preserve our individual conscience that the worst that could happen to one person would be to die and that your conscience ceased to exist. He even says he would prefer hell over it because at least he could have his individual conscience in hell.

This leads me to believe that probably the punishment for all the evil people is that their conscience will be erased forever from this world and they will cease to exist when they die. Good people on the contrary will have eternal life.
So hell isn't a literal place where you're tortured but the worst possible punishment isin fact ceasing to exist forever.

The Roman pagans had a lot to do with the corruption of the new testament that we have today.
Jesus was foretold in the OT. And in the OT it was Sheol , the grave.
Jews don't believe in Hell as Christians know it. That should inform Christians well enough but for most it doesn't.
They want to believe in an eternal place of suffering for a finite series of mistakes. And then argue that God is omni-benevolent.
Yeah, the first born lives in Egypt are evidence of that, no? No.

The god's of the old religion become the devils of the new.
Ever wonder how many people the devil killed in scripture? Less than ten.
How many did God kill?

There are atheists that are haters and for them their great joy is achieved in assailing Christians anonymously.
There are atheists that are mature and think before they speak. There is no God so they aren't threatened by people who believe otherwise.
Then there are Christians who know the first faith anyone exercises in the Judeo-Christian belief system is to accept they are a sinner. And secondly, to believe that man had not a thing to do with the creation of the bible.

Man had everything to do with the creation of the bible. His, and it was all men involved, even in the councils that canonized the scriptures we have today, desire to control people who are taught to think literally and to accept a fear paradigm punishment if they don't.

There's a teaching out there that says, the OT God was actually a demigod. Or, Satan. He was allowed, as Satan was in the trials of Job, to wreak havoc on the world because "king God" was about other business.
However, when king God found out what the demigod had done he sent himself to turn things around. And that's why we have Jesus reversing the plight of man.
Interesting because in the OT we're told God does not change.
If you've ever had a NDE,Near Death Experience, or known someone who has, you'll find that their certainty about this life changes when they come back.

Did you know in the first century when the Apostles went about spreading the good news, there was no bible , it was a spoken word tradition, that the pagan peoples of the lands they entered referred to them as, people of the book?
Because the converted Jews and first Christians derived their belief about the God of all creation from scrolls.

 

[1213]

...
So hell isn't a literal place where you're tortured but the worst possible punishment isin fact ceasing to exist forever.

I believe hell is what Bible tells it is, fire that burns forever. However, it is also place where soul and body are destroyed.


And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

I don’t believe those who are destroyed do or feel anything after that. And it is eternal so that there is no coming back.

 

[tigrers2019]

The New Testament does not teach that a person is punished for eternity for a finite number of moral mistakes, any more than another person is rewarded for eternity for a greater number of good works.

The New Testament teaches that the person's soul/spirit must be cleansed in order for them to enter heaven. This is a radical change within the person towards a positive direction from where they once were. Their character (sum of their habits) changing so much that they are thought to having had a nervous breakdown.

If a person does not allow their spiritual state to be changed before they die, they are responsible for this circumstance.

God has the authority to punish eternally and reward eternally.

What the punishment is in the afterlife we do not know since fire cannot be applied spiritually. Whatever it is, it is worse than fire in relation to the pain inflicted upon the soul/spirit.

 

[susanblange]

I believe hell is what Bible tells it is, fire that burns forever. However, it is also place where soul and body are destroyed.


And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

I don’t believe those who are destroyed do or feel anything after that. And it is eternal so that there is no coming back.

There is no fire in Hell, the fire is going to be on earth and it will be the mechanism by which you get to Hell. Hell is a black hole. It is darkness, freezing cold, hyper-gravity, and a bottomless pit. Fire is a symbol of holiness and angels are made of wind and fire. Seraphim, where we get the term Angel, means "burning ones". God appeared to Moses in a burning bush (Exodus 3:2) and there is a furnace in the book of Daniel where the occupants are not hurt. Daniel 3:25.

 

[dybmh]

I do believe in reincarnation and Heaven and Hell. If there is an incarnation (of God) there can also be reincarnation. I know of seven people who have been reincarnated. They are Elijah (the Prophet), Gabriel and Michael (the Arch Angels), David (the King), Deborah (the Judge), and on the side of the enemy, Adam and Jesus. The last two were kicked out of Heaven. The other five have a role to play in the end times. I had a vision of my own death, and I know there is a Heaven and a Hell. The death of the soul/body is permanent as well as the death of the spirit. You can only be reincarnated if you go to Heaven.

Regarding the vision you had, do you think it had a divine origin?

 

[susanblange]

Regarding the vision you had, do you think it had a divine origin?

The vision I had was definitely from God. Numbers 12:6. "...If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream". It was identical to near death experience, including the tunnel, and the light at the end of it. I am waiting for God to give me a prophetic dream.

 

[dybmh]

The vision I had was definitely from God. Numbers 12:6. "...If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream". It was identical to near death experience, including the tunnel, and the light at the end of it. I am waiting for God to give me a prophetic dream.

How can you ( or anyone ) be sure?

 

[Trailblazer]

I know what its like to lose everything that i once seemed to have. So I understand that life on earth is not the life i am referring to. In my vocabulary this is existence, and life is a word i use to describe a far better circumstance.

Thanks for clarifying that. I have also lost a lot in this life, but I never really had that much to begin with anyway. I have a lot of material wealth now, and I have my health, so I should not have anything to complain about, yet I am overburdened with the material world and I long for the spiritual world because I know it will be a lot better than this life.

Your Ba'hullah has a wonderful way of words. While i do not subscribe to the religion I do not discount that he has a genuine light of truth that is perhaps inspired by God.

I saw the Truth in the Baha'i Faith right away which is why I subscribed to it but I was never really that much of a religious person and I still am not. However, I fully believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God, and that is why I am a Baha'i, that and all the teachings if the Faith, which just make sense to me and give me hope not only for my own spiritual growth and salvation of the entire world..

Nature and circumstances knocked the notion of God right out of me for awhile. Since then i am starting to get more inspired by my searches for God. I got hung up on proofs, and evidences and the apparent lack thereof. Now i am trying to approach God through a perspective that the events of this existence pale in comparison to the glory of God. My opinion is that somehow this earth is exactly what we need right now, and we all have strayed and rebelled and looked toward doing things that cause us all harm instead of good. In a sense we all deserve to be here in this frying pan.

Nature and circumstances are still knocking me down and the only reason I do not fall down is because I have faith in Baha'u'llah. God is problematic for me because He allows so much suffering of humans and animals. But I have to accept that there are simply mysteries I am unaware of and they will be unveiled before my eyes after I die, as Baha'u'llah said.

I wish I could believe more in the glory of God but for now I will have to settle upon belief in Baha'u'llah.

The evils of this world and the worst things that can befall a person are a result of rebellion. Some of the most respectable humans, while you might not consider them evil, but they have contributed a lot to the destructiveness of our world; nuclear bombs, etc.

Yes, that is true, when people rebel against God's teachings and laws the outcome is not good.

So if we are not evil, we are, still, a most destructive rebellious species. And of course God would intend us to lose are dangerous ways.

God would like that but free will is sacrosanct in God's Eyes, so that has to be a choice we make.

 

[Trailblazer]

An eternity of life seems more like hell to me than non-existence. In other words, I do NOT value my consciousness to the extent that torture is preferable to non-existence.

Maybe it seems that way because you think it will be like this life, but it will be very different from this life, although you will be the same person. So, if you are happy with yourself then I do not understand what the problem would be with continuing to be conscious. What kind of torture do you envision?

 

[Trailblazer]

Maybe freewill passes with death. Don't ask me. I don't believe in all that mumbo jumbo BS.

We won't have free will after we die. We will have some way to advance in the spiritual world but it won't be by making choices between good and evil as we do in this world.

This is our last chance to make the choices that will prepare us to enter heaven. That is precisely why all the scriptures warn us that it will be our last chance. People can choose to blow that off if they want to since we all have a free will, but it won't be God's fault that people blew Him off.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, I think it *would* be bad after a million years. It would be *boring*. Mind-numbingly boring. And, after a million times that, a mere trillion years, it would be nothing short of torment.

I think you are projecting how you would feel if you had to live oon earth for a million years. I can agree that would be boring, not only boring but torment.
But the afterlife won't be anything like this life. It is timeless and place-less so you won't even be thinking of time.

/E: truthfully, the descriptions of heaven just sound like some sort of drug trip, extended to eternity. Not a good path.

I am not sure where you are getting you descriptions but they don't sound right. Nobody really knows what heaven will be like, but it won't be like a drug trip since you will be in full possession of your mental faculties.
Your mental state will be whatever it was in this life, because the afterlife is just like walking into another room, and you take everything you are with you.

 

[Trailblazer]

After the first short (relatively) bit of time, yes, indeed. I would *much* rather not exist at all than be forced to live for eternity.

I hear your pain, because I am not that excited about the prospect of continuing to exist forever either.

And I very much enjoy life. I just don't think it would be enjoyable after the first million, billion, or trillion years.

I do not enjoy this life that much, but I endure it. I certainly would not want to live forever if it was like this life.

 

[susanblange]

How can you ( or anyone ) be sure?

There are a lot of prophecies, from the OT and the oral tradition, that have been fulfilled in my life. Among them are all the prophecies of my spiritual rebirth, the three wise men, the star in the east with the kings visiting, the drummer boy, the birth of Emanuel, the flying roll, and the voice from Heaven. All of these things happened in about nine to ten months, between August 1983 and May 1984. The "crucifixion" and "betrayal" for thirty pieces of silver have also already happened. The likelihood of all of these things being a fluke is if you took the state of Texas and filled it up three miles high with white poker chips, and planted one blue chip in there, it is more likely that you will find that one blue chip on the first try and blindfolded than it is for all of these things happening to one person. So the odds are astronomical. I'm absolutely convinced.

 

[dybmh]

There are a lot of prophecies, from the OT and the oral tradition, that have been fulfilled in my life. Among them are all the prophecies of my spiritual rebirth, the three wise men, the star in the east with the kings visiting, the drummer boy, the birth of Emanuel, the flying roll, and the voice from Heaven. All of these things happened in about nine to ten months, between August 1983 and May 1984. The "crucifixion" and "betrayal" for thirty pieces of silver have also already happened. The likelihood of all of these things being a fluke is if you took the state of Texas and filled it up three miles high with white poker chips, and planted one blue chip in there, it is more likely that you will find that one blue chip on the first try and blindfolded than it is for all of these things happening to one person. So the odds are astronomical. I'm absolutely convinced.

ok. i really appreciate your honesty. thank u.

 

[Skwim]

I was reading Miguel de Unamuno who was a spanish Catholic thinker and he says something very interesting which is that given our longing as a species to preserve our individual conscience that the worst that could happen to one person would be to die and that your conscience ceased to exist. He even says he would prefer hell over it because at least he could have his individual conscience in hell.

This leads me to believe that probably the punishment for all the evil people is that their conscience will be erased forever from this world and they will cease to exist when they die. Good people on the contrary will have eternal life.
So hell isn't a literal place where you're tortured but the worst possible punishment isin fact ceasing to exist forever.

Boy, I don't know about that. If evil people cease to be, conscious wise, they will never again experience ANYTHING, including the recognition they no loner exist. Whereas those who go to heaven, or wherever, will always be aware of those who didn't make it, and if they have any kind of empathy at all, will live with the regret of the loss. Unless, that is, god strikes them dumb and erases all such memories, In fact, this eternal bliss that's so often mentioned about one's existence in heaven will almost necessarily require that one be struck dumb just to prevent a person from going bonkers from boredom.

HEAVEN​

"Is EVERYBODY HAPPY?"
...24 / 7 / 52 & FOREVER. ​

.​

 

[MonkeyFire]

Hell isn't part of reality because it is comprisd of nihilistic anti-traits.

 

[Skwim]

Hell isn't part of reality because it is comprisd of nihilistic anti-traits.

What is a nihilistic anti-trait? How about an example or two.

.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I was reading Miguel de Unamuno who was a spanish Catholic thinker and he says something very interesting which is that given our longing as a species to preserve our individual conscience that the worst that could happen to one person would be to die and that your conscience ceased to exist. He even says he would prefer hell over it because at least he could have his individual conscience in hell.

This leads me to believe that probably the punishment for all the evil people is that their conscience will be erased forever from this world and they will cease to exist when they die. Good people on the contrary will have eternal life.
So hell isn't a literal place where you're tortured but the worst possible punishment isin fact ceasing to exist forever.

Question: Should I place my trust in de Unamuno, who is now passed, or Jesus Christ, who died and rose?