Hell: What do you think?

[JesusIsTheWay]

Let me ask you this Jensa, if the Christian version of Heaven and Hell was "just made up as a scare tactic" who made it up? Why did they make it up? How can you prove they don't exist? And why would so many people die for a lie? Jesus Himself told us the reality of Heaven and hell. Do you believe Him? Is He a liar? a lunatic? or was He something more. Was He God's Son? And what if your wrong? What if Heaven and hell are both very real? Would you really like to risk eternity with the most pain and suffering forever? Do you really believe that there is no Heaven or hell? And why would Christians tell you? What do they have to gain?

 

[No*s]

I might add that I (well we, as in Orthodoxy) don't believe Hell is a place or a state of separation with God. It is union with God. The question isn't "how badly is God going to punish the unbelievers" as much as it is "how will you experience God?" For some, the union with God will be joyous and peaceful. For others hellish and painful.

It all depends on who we are. All of us will be in the exact same presence in the exact same manner with the only determining factor being who and what we are.

 

[ayani]

the Quaker view (as it often is) tends to be diverse on this issue, but few Quakers understand Hell as a literal place where souls are punished eternally for their sins. i'm intriigued by No*s' understanding of Hell as union with God. could you please explain more about that, No*s?

 

[Era]

The only hell that exists is here and now . People`s fear of life is hell . People`s constraintion regarding their own needs is hell . JesuslsTheWay , I have some questions for you : how can you prove that there is hell? How can you prove that Jesus Christ had told the truth ? And believe me , christians have many things to gain from telling that there is hell and heaven.

 

[No*s]

the Quaker view (as it often is) tends to be diverse on this issue, but few Quakers understand Hell as a literal place where souls are punished eternally for their sins. i'm intriigued by No*s' understanding of Hell as union with God. could you please explain more about that, No*s?

I started the God is Hell thread to explain that. It has more about it .

It basically works like this: man was created in the image and likeness of God. The Eastern Fathers made a distinction between these. The likeness of God was having some attributes similar to God's but on a much lower scale. The likeness of God was our growing to be like Him in character. God, then placed Adam and Eve in the Garden to test them (I'm semi-literal with Genesis). The Tree was to facilitate their growing in the likeness of God. In time, when they were ready, the Tree would be granted to them.

Obviously, they failed. As a result, the divine image was damaged and many of our capacities to be like God were damaged. God, then, in His mercy clothed them (likely a foreshadowing of the sacrifice of Christ) and cast them out. He cast them out so that they wouldn't eat from the Tree of Life (Christ) and live forever in Him. This would be Hell.

Christ came to repair this broken image (bringing the divine down to the mundane in a medicinal fashion to cure our illness). Without this, though, our capacities aren't functioning right. When God sends His powers through us to activate these fully, if the image isn't repaired, that same power that enables His people to live in bliss and with their nature fully restored will also basically short-circuit those who cannot handle it, much as electricity can cause a fire in a bad box. They simply can't handle it.

Another illustration is that a grandson who doesn't like his very loving grandmother, or one that likes her but hasn't adjusted his lifestyle to be compatible with her, are stranded in a house together for three months without the ability to leave. This boy will experience his grandmother's love in a less than pleasant fashion. However, if he actively loved his grandmother and his lifestyle is conformed to hers, he will experience this same love as bliss. It all depends on the grandson, and it's similar with God.

 

[Jaymes]

Let me ask you this Jensa, if the Christian version of Heaven and Hell was "just made up as a scare tactic" who made it up? Why did they make it up? How can you prove they don't exist?

I try to not answer rhetorical questions like that. However:

And why would so many people die for a lie?

Why would so many Druids die for their gods? Why don't you believe, JesusistheWay? Why can't you see that they obviously believed in something strongly enough to die for it?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If anyone is going to posit that something in the NT or in a sacred writing of another faith is made up or inserted, they are burdened with coming up with a theory as to why they believe it is made up. Otherwise, it must be interpreted as an uninformed and bias statement with no support.

As Chrsitians, we have statements concerning hell in the NT, both in the words of Jesus and the apostles. If anyone thinks that the Church made it up, please let us know who added it, when, and why.

I am with No*s all the way on this one concerning the nature of hell as being unified with God in an unpleasent manner. However, we split on the serparation of "likeness" and "image" theology.

 

[No*s]

I am with No*s all the way on this one concerning the nature of hell as being unified with God in an unpleasent manner. However, we split on the serparation of "likeness" and "image" theology.

Yeah, I believe you were in Christian theology with me when I first heard something like that (from Dr. Meeks). I believe it was Cody, you, and me in the class (I can't remember if Dann was present or absent that day).

It may be Orthodox, but it was also Baptist, at least with Dr. Meeks

 

[linwood]

Let me ask you this Jensa, if the Christian version of Heaven and Hell was "just made up as a scare tactic" who made it up? Why did they make it up?

Early Christian leaders borrowed it from even earlier religions or they made it up on thier own.

How can you prove they don't exist?

The same way you can prove that Zeus doesn`t exist

And why would so many people die for a lie?

Bruno
Ruby Ridge
David Corresh
Jim Jones
Numerous other religious people throughout history.
The same reasons as those mentioned above.
Because they believed it to be true.

Jesus Himself told us the reality of Heaven and hell. Do you believe Him? Is He a liar? a lunatic? or was He something more. Was He God's Son? And what if your wrong?

I don`t presume to know what or who he was if he WAS at all.
If she`s wrong then she`s risking roughly the same fate you are.

What if Heaven and hell are both very real? Would you really like to risk eternity with the most pain and suffering forever?

You risk it yourself.
What if heaven and hell are actually ruled by Horus?
he`s going to be pretty miffed at you for dedicating all that devotion and worship to Jesus.Do you really believe that there is no Heaven or hell? And why would Christians tell you? What do they have to gain?

What do Muslims have to gain?
Gnostics?
Heretics?
Satanists?
Jews?
Hindus?

They have nothing to gain, they just seek to relay their beliefs.

I don`t believe in either heaven or hell.

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

I feel it's more juvenile to go on about how one is right on a subject and others aren't, but that's just me

I feel it is contradictive to exclusivate oneself from exclusivity. It's called a double negative which contradicts itself unless the one making the statement doesn't exclusivate themselves from being "more juvenile".

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[Lee]

Both Heaven and Hell, to me, are states of existence that we exist in while we are alive. We are "in heaven" while we both give and receive love to and from our fellow humans and God. Hell is the absence of this Love. There is none of this after death; either we realize Radha Soami, or we are reborn until we may do so. But rebirth is not a punishment, nor is the karma that places us.


I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

- Lee

 

[ayani]

Either we realize Radha Soami, or we are reborn until we may do so.

Lee- what is Radha Soami? is that like enlightenment?

 

[michel]

Both Heaven and Hell, to me, are states of existence that we exist in while we are alive. We are "in heaven" while we both give and receive love to and from our fellow humans and God. Hell is the absence of this Love. There is none of this after death; either we realize Radha Soami, or we are reborn until we may do so. But rebirth is not a punishment, nor is the karma that places us.


I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

- Lee

I've often wondered about that -whether we make life 'hell' , or 'heaven' for ourselves, on earth.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

When the body dies, it's like a veil is lifted and you can see the light of God. An awakening. If you are too full of fear, hate, anger, you may not be able to 'awaken' you will be shrouded by your sins. But I believe our gift of free will does not stop when the body dies. And I have seen dark clouds of hell surrounded by 'angels' who are trying desperately to 'awaken' the souls that are trapped in their sin.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

As Chrsitians, we have statements concerning hell in the NT, both in the words of Jesus and the apostles. If anyone thinks that the Church made it up, please let us know who added it, when, and why.

Which Christians. My Grandfather( who is also from Fort Worth) believes I am going to hell because I lived with my husband before we were married. And my mother is going to hell because she married a catholic. The catholics told me that the stories in the bible did not actually happen. That the story of the flood and the parting of the Red Sea were just stories used to illustrate what God might be like. And I am visited by Jehovah Witnesses who say that only 144000 will be saved and all the rest of us are going to hell.

 

[almifkhar]

i think that you come from wince you came. i think the diffrence is that if your good, you can rap with the great spirit, if not who knows perhaps you come back down to this place or somewhere else to deal with the dramas of life

 

[Ori]

I refuse to believe in a god that would send people to an eternal hell, because I wouldn't. Am I more merciful then god? I doubt it.

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

While Heaven, on the other hand, is awesome! There will be no suffering or crying or death. There will be an eternity of happiness and peace. Nobody will labor in vain, but everybody will live forever will God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come!

i never liked that notion of heaven. if you live for eternity in happiness and no suffering or crying, i think it would be boring. i do not believe in heaven or hell, just that we will be either reabsorbed or sent back to school. thats all.

 

[Draka]

I don't believe in Hell, at least not in the way it is described here. Hell is being trapped in your own mind...your life gone wrong.

As for eternal peace and happiness...without some suffering and tribulations...how do you know you are happy? What would be your comparison to even know you are happy? Wouldn't you just exist?