hello, new member 1st post

[monti]

It always amuses me when people pluck scripture out of context and without any background to the event.

The point is this god wanted it his way, or you die. It has nothing to do with the so called christian message of love your neighbor and give your clothes away to the poor does it, and lets us not forget the classic "turn the other cheek"? It doesn't make me laugh one little bit that this psychopathic god of yours wants to kill everything and every body just on a whim.

Nothing that occurred by way of punishment to Israel was undeserved or anything new to them.

so what about the young male babies, and old women and young married women what did they do what was deserved Jay jay? That makes me laugh when YOU state on their behalf "it was nothing new to them", so that makes everything ok then does it? They were used to the megalomanic behavior of this psychopath god of the Moses, and yours.:slap:

You are free to worship whomever you wish. We are all choosing our own destiny by those very choices.

Don't assume that I "worship" any god, because I do not. This does not mean I do not believe they existed or still exist.

 

[monti]

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves". Numbers 31:17-18

I notice he told his menfolk to keep the child virgin girls for themselves!

You are putting today's interpretation on an ancient culture with a very different view of things at that time. Many people do this but it is not a good way to evaluate the situation

So it is me then now is it? I see, so those words from Numbers 31:17-18 have been interpreted wrongly by me, Jay jay? If that is the best you can do to defend the actions of this megalomaniac god of yours, I think that is a bad, bad defence, let’s hope your god doesn’t see your failure to defend him in the same way he seen the “failures” of those innocents women and baby boys he had slaughtered as told to us BY HIM, your GOD! in numbers 31:17-18, eh.

Good nite Jay jay. I hope your conscience lets you sleep on what you have just written here this evening, my friend.

 

[JayJayDee]

　

That is exactly what I mean, Jay Jay. And it is here I believe astronomy comes into it in a strong way. You have inadvertently touched on it here when you mentioned;

OK...you mean "astrology" not "astronomy"...that is a whole other ball game!

This is exactly what happened at the time of Moses too, and it also happened when the God of the Moses’ time had come to an end ‘ the end times’.

The pharaoh’s "time" was of the age of the Bull Taurus. This was as you have mentioned the Hebrews wanted to revert back to worshiping the bull " and were punished" by a jealous megalomaniac god. The Time of the Moses’ god was the age of the Ram, Aries and when that came to an end it was the time or age of Pisces the fish the time of Christ and the same happened then. It seems as these end times are coming to an age old god doesn’t want to give it up.
This is why jesus was able to say
"And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

O dear, how twisted can things get? The Jews were forbidden to practised DIVINATION, ASTROLOGY or MAGIC (Deut 18:9-12) These were the practices of the Canaanites that God found "detestable". Dabbling in the occult carried the death penalty. It was because of these very practices that God was driving the inhabitants out of the land. He found them disgusting...why? Because they were inextricably tied in with his adversary and operated under his occult power.

The "age" about which Jesus spoke was the "system of things" prevailing at the time of the prophesy's fulfilment. It had nothing to do with astrology.

It is also why Jesus understood that the Pharisee didn’t have a clue what was going on, the priesthood at the time of Christ had been purchased, yes, bought from the king of the time, and in the case it was the Herodians. When they asked jesus "for a sign" he replied,

The "end of the age" that Jesus spoke about, was the end of the present system of things. Jesus had instructed his disciples to preach about his kingdom "in all the inhabited earth" because the end of this world and all its wickedness would then take place. (Matt 28:19, 20) He said he would be "with them" in this lifesaving work.
The "signs" about which Jesus spoke were evidences of what he prophesied.
When the Pharisees asked him for a sign.....
".....some of the scribes and Pharisees said: "Teacher, we want to see a sign from you." 39 In reply he said to them: "A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking for a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jo′nah the prophet. 40 For just as Jo′nah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights."(Matt 12:38-40)

There was nothing 'magical' about the evidence he gave them. He would be in his tomb for three days and nights...that is the only sign they received.

When you try to mix true religion and false, you end up with something that is neither...it is contaminated. A glass of water that is half filled with poison would not tempt anyone but a fool to drink....but what if it was a quarter full....an eighth?....a few teaspoons?....a few drops? Where would you draw the line before you swallowed it? What if it had no smell or taste to indicate its death dealing presence?

The devil has contaminated true worship to the exact degree that makes it palatable to all who want to swallow what he is dishing out. The master con artist who governs this world has had thousands of years to perfect his craft....do you think you are immune?
We all need to check our facts very carefully before we operate in a smug haze and lose everything we value because we fell for the oldest tricks in the book. God will accept no excuses for ignorance, especially not now.

The point is this god wanted it his way, or you die.

The point is, God is the only one in existence who has the authority to make that choice.
You live or die on his say so....He created life and he has the authority to eliminate all who fail to meet his approval.....please consider this when you blaspheme. He doesn't take too kndly to it. :no:

It has nothing to do with the so called christian message of love your neighbor and give your clothes away to the poor does it, and lets us not forget the classic "turn the other cheek"? It doesn't make me laugh one little bit that this psychopathic god of yours wants to kill everything and every body just on a whim.

You demonstrate no understanding of the God of Israel at all, but you can't tell people things they do not want to hear. That's OK, we are all going to reap the consequences of our decisions.

so what about the young male babies, and old women and young married women what did they do what was deserved Jay jay? That makes me laugh when YOU state on their behalf "it was nothing new to them", so that makes everything ok then does it? They were used to the megalomanic behavior of this psychopath god of the Moses, and yours.

You behave as if death is something more than a temporary sleep to a God who has absolute jurisdiction over life and death. He can restore life as easily as he takes it. In fact, this is what he has promised to do....so death is not the worst thing that can happen to anyone. (John 5:28, 29; 11:11-14; Matt 10:28)

In ancient times, death was not something unexpected. People did not live long lives and women were widowed often and sometimes at a young age. The account of Ruth and Naomi revealed that all three women were widows.
Jesus earthly father was obviously deceased by the time that Jesus began his ministry. There is no mention of him during this period and Jesus gave the care of his mother over to the apostle John before he died.

 

[JayJayDee]

Don't assume that I "worship" any god, because I do not. This does not mean I do not believe they existed or still exist.

That unfortunately speaks volumes. But it is of course, entirely your choice.

I notice he told his menfolk to keep the child virgin girls for themselves!

Do you know why?
And again the answer lies in the times and circumstance prevailing at a very different period in history....
Canaanite women used sex to lure Israelite men into sin. The inhabitants were sexually depraved as worshippers of gods who promoted such things. For their error the inhabitants were sentenced to death. But God spared the young women who had not committed fornication as a result of their parent's debauched lifestyle and could be brought under the protective umbrella of the nation's family arrangement. These young girls could become wives and mothers and worshippers of the true God and hopefully leave the misdemeanors of their former life behind. You make it sound so sordid, but it was nothing like that. You have to know something of the lifestyle of these people to appreciate what God was rescuing them from. You have had the truth presented in such a twisted fashion, that it appears to be all back to front. Propaganda works...doesn't it?

So it is me then now is it? I see, so those words from Numbers 31:17-18 have been interpreted wrongly by me, Jay jay?

No, you didn't formulate these ideas on your own monti, even if you think you have.
These ideas were presented to you and have been accepted by you. What else is new?
The Jews that put Jesus to death were so sure that they were right, that they cursed themselves and their children with Jesus' blood. (Matt 27:24, 25) Do you think for one moment that they thought they were calling out for the execution of an innocent man? The son of God? You think you can't be fooled by the same deceiver? Be careful what you say and who you believe.

If that is the best you can do to defend the actions of this megalomaniac god of yours, I think that is a bad, bad defence, let’s hope your god doesn’t see your failure to defend him in the same way he seen the "failures" of those innocents women and baby boys he had slaughtered as told to us BY HIM, your GOD! in numbers 31:17-18, eh.

O dear, the gods you serve have really done a number on you haven't they? Like the Jews of Jesus' day, they have you blaspheming and feeling smug about it. :sad:

Good nite Jay jay. I hope your conscience lets you sleep on what you have just written here this evening, my friend.

I sleep just fine monti....I know my God very well, which is more than I can say for you. You have obviously gleaned your information from haters of YHWH. If you stand with them, then you will reap what they have sown.
It is what you fail to respond to in these posts that also speaks louder than your words.

I don't see this conversation going in a positive direction so I will wish you well and hope you can see the real truth before it is too late.
　
　
　

 

[monti]

　

OK...you mean "astrology" not "astronomy"...that is a whole other ball game!

No I mean Astronomy. The movement of the planets ect. They (the priests and wise men) understood that when certain planets appeared in certain combinations against a backdrop of certain constellations that things would happen on, and to the earth, and that they have a force on the earth. They also took to these as Signs from the heavens (as a heavenly clock) to begin a new reign of a new god or king., as told to us concerning the wise men who came and told Herod of a new born king etc. They said “we seen HIS STAR”

O dear, how twisted can things get? The Jews were forbidden to practised DIVINATION, ASTROLOGY or MAGIC (Deut 18:9-12)

Now who is being twisted? The dupes believed in this “magic” didn't they? The even believed spelling was magic and mysterious, didn't they? I said to you earlier you didn't understand the people of these B.C. A.D. times, and I was correct. They were highly superstitious and believed anything the learned men (priests) told them. Yes, I have already said that the priests kept the ignorant in the dark about many of the so called “mysteries of heaven” including the sciences, they didn't want the commoner knowing they were being duped by what was simply a natural phenomenon. I mean, what better way to get these dupes to buy and pay extortionate prices for the sacrifices for the Temple? What better way to tell these dupes that god wasn't pleased every time they hear a clap of thunder or an earthquake occurred or volcano explode. Yes the horrid people, the elders, told their flocks that god wasn't pleased because they had committed one sin or another and were going to die. It was usually because they hadn't been to the temple and handed over enough of their hard earned money at extortionate exchange rates.
You really are not the open minded person you attempt to portray yourself Jay Jay.
You are not here to discuss god or religion or theology, you are here to defend your god with the flimsiest excuses you can come with.
You have attempted to defended, AND EXCUSE, your god against his Mass Murder, Pillage and Rape. Not to mention child stealing and rape.
It is not so much turn the other cheek in your case is it Jay Jay, It is more the case of turn a blind eye.

I sleep just fine monti.

Most people without consciences normally “sleep just fine”.

I know my God very well

Of course you do sunshine, of course you do.

 

[oldbadger]

That is a very ignorant opinion Jay Jay, if you don't mind me saying.. And the rest of your post is only your interpretation of what ever "faith" it is that handed your interpretation down to you.

Hello again Monti....
No opinions on RF are ignorant, monti. No beliefs are ignorant.
Most of our posts reflect our opinions.
So it's good to give respect to all whenever possible.

You obviously do not not understand the situation in Palestine at the time of The Christ and you certainly have not read anything on Titus Flavius Josephus (or very little).

Palestine was split up, monti, and there was not just one 'situation' in Palestine.

Josephus was a Pharisee Priest he came from a pedigree of royals and priests.

No he was not. He had to be a full member of the Temple Priesthood to be an army commander, and he had to 'do' Temple duty, so....no...... I don't think he was a Pharisee.

And what is more important is that, although Josephus was given and granted many things by the Romans, he only asked for one thing.
Can you tell me what that was Jay Jay?

What is this? Interrogation time? Why don't you tell us all? But please get it right...... you've got a few things (above) wrong....

And one other thing, the Old Testament as it has come down to us,is only a small part of the original Sumerian epic written 6,000 years before the Old Testament creation story.

...... so......... what?

 

[monti]

Hello again Monti....
No opinions on RF are ignorant, monti.

I meant Jay Jay was being or is ignorant to, the fact of there being other evidences outside of the bible to actually support and fill in what appear to be gaping holes in those biblical stories. It was not a direct insult as in -‘ jay jay is an ignorant pig’, -. I am the first to admit that I am ignorant to many things concerning many subjects. So stop being so tetchy. And try to understand the context in which I used the word - ignorant. Jay jay has shown what he believes in very clear language. He is entitled to his beliefs and I will respect that.

No he was not. He had to be a full member of the Temple Priesthood to be an army commander, and he had to 'do' Temple duty, so....no...... I don't think he was a Pharisee. you've got a few things (above) wrong....

( Life Josephus)

When I was about sixteen years old, I had a mind to make trim of the several sects that were among us. These sects are three: - The first is that of the Pharisees, the second that Sadducees, and the third that of the Essens, as we have frequently told you; for I thought that by this means I might choose the best, if I were once acquainted with them all; so I contented myself with hard fare, and underwent great difficulties, and went through them all. Nor did I content myself with these trials only; but when I was informed that one, whose name was Banus, lived in the desert, and used no other clothing than grew upon trees, and had no other food than what grew of its own accord, and bathed himself in cold water frequently, both by night and by day, in order to preserve his chastity, I imitated him in those things, and continued with him three years. So when I had accomplished my desires, I returned back to the city, being now nineteen years old, and began to conduct myself according to the rules of the sect of the Pharisees, which is of kin to the sect of the Stoics, as the Greeks call them.

( Life Josephus)

I retired into the inner court of the temple. Yet did I go out of the temple again, after Manahem and the principal of the band of robbers were put to death, when I abode among the high priests and the chief of the Pharisees.

.
Josephus was a Jew ("Hebrew") born Joseph ben [son of] Matthias [or Mattathias]) into the Hasmonaean lineage. He became a Pharisee at 19.


(Josephus The Wars of the Jews )
Josephus was appointed commander in Galilee region. Josephus organizes the military in Galilee. He was captured by the Romans in 67

This mountain Josephus had encompassed with a wall when he fortified the city that its top might not be capable of being seized upon by the enemies. The city is covered all round with other mountains, and can no way be seen till a man comes just upon it. And this was the strong situation of Jotapata.

This was the long siege of Jotapata where, we are told, Josephus was acting general. Josephus it is said, put up a valiant fright and resistance during this battle and had had only lost because of the betrayal of a deserter.
The reason I mentioned Josephus was simply to show that there is indeed another side to the story as it came down to us in the scriptures; as I does the Sumerian story, and many others. This is not to say that they are any more accurate in their given accounts, but in the 21st century and the - better educated minds of the masses, - to totally rely on the bible only to tell us the whole truth and nothing but the truth- is ignorant.
I hope I have cleared that up.

 

[4consideration]

Well the way I see it is that, everything in any bible is supposed to be the word of god. The Revelation to John as far as my understanding goes is that he was told to write down these revelations by Jesus SON OF GOD and God in three persons as we are taught in our schools.

I was asking you about your personal experience you mentioned in this thread. It has been a long time since I attended Catholic school (decades) and it seems your experience is so much different than mine -- most especially regarding the context in which you seemed to have been reading the Bible at the time you would have written the essay you mentioned. I find it very interesting and curious.

(I no longer consider myself Catholic. At one time I took exception to the teaching from the Catholic church that in the Catholic Bible the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) and book of Revelation were not ever intended to be read literally, and that to do so would create great misunderstanding. After assuming they were "hiding" something, I attempted to do that very thing. I quickly came to the conclusion that one point was something I could agree with the Catholic church about.)

And besides this, it shouldn't (to my mind) divert from the fact that no matter what bible one decides to read those verses are the same, examples:

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. Revelation 22:18-19 (English Standard Version).

I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto them, God shall add unto him the plagues which are written in this book:and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19 (American Standard Version).

And I solemnly declare to everyone who reads this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God shall add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone subtracts any part of these prophecies, God shall take away his share in the Tree of Life, and in the Holy City just described. Revelation 22:18-19 (Living Bible).

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. Revelation 22:18-19 (New International Version).

The bible then it seems is warning against doctoring (tampering with, adding to, and taking away) what is written in the revelation from god via Jesus via a messenger.
I am sure you get my point 4Consideration.

I think I get your point. That was not really what I was confused about with your presentation. I was meaning something else.

I was confused or surprised that it seemed you were using the KJV at a time you were attending a Catholic school. I'm not talking about the particular wording in the various versions of those verses of the Bible. I'm thinking about the overall context you are using.

My point is, in referring to the copy of a Catholic Bible that I have (New American Bible) there are several pages that precede the book of Revelation that discuss the controversial nature of the book, the uncertainty of the author -- with no position (and much question) about it being the apostle John, reference to the imagery being intentionally larger than can be imagined for literary reasons -- as well as symbolic and allegorical language having been borrowed from earlier Hebrew Scripture, etc.

Ironically perhaps, from a literal reading of the introduction to the book of Revelation (in a Catholic Bible,) I don't see how a person would come to the conclusion that it would make any sense to read or interpret it literally.

Well yes Jay Jay, I asked many. The class one day was asked to write a short message to Jesus.
So it went something like this,
Dear Jesus,
Will you be keeping your promise to send all those who have added, taken away and doctored your message over the last 2,000 years, to the everlasting flames and visit on them all the plagues you say you will, from the early church fathers, the maniacs of medieval time’s right up until this present day?
Here is a reminder Lord of what you promised to do to them:

If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of
the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19. KJV.

I look forward and eagerly await to your reply.
Monti.

I am still asking you about the response from the nun, or teacher, in the Catholic school -- because I am curious as to whether or not the context for viewing the book was addressed.

The way I see it, the focus on the wording of the verses would not be a typical response from a teacher of Catholic theology -- the context of assuming it to be the actual words of Jesus and/or considering it authoritative is what I would expect to be addressed (but you didn't mention what actually happened) -- so I am wondering what happened in your situation, and how (or if) the teacher addressed the Catholic church's seldom reference to Revelation, and the reasons for it.

 

[monti]

I am still asking you about the response from the nun, or teacher, in the Catholic school --

Yes I remember your question but thought I had answered it in the same reply to this question from Revoltingest, when he asked

Greetings!

I'm curious about your education.
Did the penguins hit your knuckles with rulers?
(That happened to many I know.)

I replied>

yes one more than one occasion. I was finally expelled for asking awkward questions, like ' how many heads did John the baptist have?'
thank you for the warm welcome everyone.

So sorry I didn’t reply to you direct 4C. I was expelled for being too “disruptive” in causing others to start asking their own awkward questions. Hope that answers your question.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Did I welcome you yet?

Oh well, welcome aboard

 

[monti]

thank you SM.

 

[nirmmala]

hellow..i am nirmmala...this is a good site where we can ask any doubt and get lot of informations..i like this site...
but i font know how to post a doubt?

 

[JayJayDee]

hellow..i am nirmmala...this is a good site where we can ask any doubt and get lot of informations..i like this site...
but i font know how to post a doubt?

There are various forums where you can post nirmmala.

Go to the "Home" page and choose a suitable forum to post your questions.