Hello

[Skwim]

There was a lot of pressure from "gay rights" groups to remove homosexuality from the DSM, and it was done,

To come to the conclusion because the "gay rights" groups put pressure on the organization is to imply they had some kind of extraordinary powers of persuasion. They did not.

but that does not mean that it was right in the eyes of God, or that it is right for any individual to engage in such ehaviour.

Which is irrelevant to what either of the organizations decided or what your dabbling in.

Many people believe that it is OK to get a divorce, or commit adultery, but God tells us that this is not acceptable, any more than it is acceptable to be homosexual. The fact that people are doing it does not make it right.

Your perceived "not right." Problem is, however you may perceive it it doesn't bestow upon you the ability or right to mess with people's psyches. Your god doesn't condone murder, but just because you may agree with this doesn't permit you sit as judge and jury on such people.

Please tell me...if being "gay" is so wonderful, why do so many of them commit suicide, and why do so many of them use drugs?

Gee, do you think it could be because people like yourself love to send them the message that they're ****** up, mentally ill, and are going to hell? Of course you don't.

I don't need a degree in medicine to know that homosexuality is wrong, or to be able to tell that a person is having emotional problems.

Well, please forgive me if I think your "knowing" here is warped. Thing is, your "wrong" is only a Biblical wrong, which you have transfigured into "mental Illness" so as to better justify your meddlings. And of course, there are a lot of illnesses that don't require a medical degree to recognize; however, mere recognition doesn't translate into a right to treat.

As I mentioned, I do refer people to professional counseling when they have other mental health issues.

As well you should, but obviously not those with the homosexual "mental illness." Those you treat yourself because, what, god said he doesn't like this particular "mental illness? Good thing god didn't say he didn't like left handed people or you'd be trying to force lefties to become righties. I don't know why his expressed dislike for homosexuals extends some kind of permission to you to counsel people with this "mental illness," but perhaps you could explain.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Giving up a career in computer science to become a preacher.

I think it is good to do what you love. I have a lawyer friend who became a tree surgeon. And an oxford professor who retired and now pans for gold for extra income.

 

[blackout]

Because of people like you. You are the cause.

They listen to people like you, and their parents do, too, and so do their schoolmates. And they are left hopeless because they know they can never be what fools and bigots tell them they MUST be to be acceptable. So they kill themselves, and they use drugs, and they drink and they do other stupid things, because they hate themselves.

Because of you.

You are an apostle of despair.

Thank you.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Welcome to our little mad house.

.
Actually, seeking help from God is the only thing that has worked for homosexuals.

There is now a very good body of knowledge that shows that Gay folks don't become straight.

I for one do not have much use for divorce or adultery. With all that said that has very little to do with sexual preference.

 

[Dr. James Robertson]

Please tell me...if being "gay" is so wonderful, why do so many of them commit suicide, and why do so many of them use drugs?

Frankly, because of messages they get from people like yourself, even if you feel you are trying to "help". They are God's creation. Why question God's creation? Their sexual orientation is not something they can change.

God doesn't condemn anyone for "orientation", as you call it, nor does the Christian church. It is only behaviour that is a problem. People who do not have control over their behaviour are suffering from some type of mental illness.

If you were in their position, and your family, your church and your society made it loud and clear that you were abnormal, disgusting, and were destined for hell.....that would be pretty tough don't you think? Being gay does not in and of itself cause emotional problems. It's the horrible stigma and prejudices attached to it.

We don't call anyone abnormal or disgusting, and Jesus Christ died on the cross to save us from hell. When someone is forgiven and cleansed of his sins through the blood of Christ, the emotional problems are taken care of, and there is no stigma. It is because of this that it is necessary to heal homosexuals of their ways.

And it is very strange to me that people quote that darn Leviticus passage in the Bible to validate their prejudice towards homosexuals. What about all of the other passages in that book that we ignore? i.e:
"For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)

First of all, it says "shall be put to death". It does not say that you or I have to do it. Of course we don't kill people for cursing their parents, any more than we kill people for engaging in acts of sexual perversion. This does not mean, however, that it is a good thing for a person to curse his parents, does it? That, like homosexuality, would be a behaviour that should be overcome.

Jesus never mentions homosexuality but he talks an awful lot about giving to the poor.

I'm afraid you've lost me. What does giving to the poor have to do with sexual perversion?

Anyway, now that I've rattled on and on...welcome to the forum! And as you have probably realized, if you want to get people riled up, all you have to do is start discussing homosexuality!

Thank you for the welcome. I didn't mean to get anyone riled up, but I believe that my feelings, and the feelings of my church, are as valid as anyone else's, and that I should have the right to express them.

 

[blackout]

Originally Posted by Dr. James Robertson
.
Actually, seeking help from God is the only thing that has worked for homosexuals.

Actually, living happy lives with the partners they naturally love,
is the only thing that works for homosexuals.


(you know... like anyone else...)

 

[Dr. James Robertson]

First and foremost, and apart from the harm you're inflicting on on gay men, stop foisting gay husbands off on straight women who trust you. Think about it. Do you want your daughters to marry gay men? Why would you purposely inflict such harm on these women?

Did I mention that I live in Heritage? There aren't too many secrets around here. If a man has given up his homosexual behaviour, he has been forgiven for it, and he no longer does it, why should we condemn him to a life of loneliness?

 

[Skwim]

People who do not have control over their behaviour are suffering from some type of mental illness.

So those homosexuals who have no desire to control their behavior don't have a mental illness. Interesting how easily you bandy the term about. " 'Mental Illness'?" It's what I say it is."

 

[blackout]

Dr. James Robertson

I look at your name and I see...

Dr. James Dobson
and Pat Robertson

Well, good luck here anyway.

 

[Dr. James Robertson]

Treading on bad ground here doc. You will now need to show proof of what you just stated.

Proof is for liquor and mathematics. I am a Christian, but I do, at least, put that much faith in the sciences. I will show you some evidence, and you can evaluate it for yourself.

As to gay suicide rate:

Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender and Questioning Teen Suicide Statistics - Gay Teen Suicide Statistics
LGBT-Teen Suicide Rate Rises - DiversityInc.com
GLSEN: Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network: GLSEN: Gay,Lesbian,Straight Education Network

As to gay drug use:

Partying to Death: Drug Abuse and Gay Nightlife Culture Featured Articles | Michael's House
Homosexuality and Illegal Drug Use - Conservapedia
Drug and Alcohol Abuse Among Gay Teens - Teen Drug Abuse and Addiction - Find Help for Teen Drug Abuse

Again using scripture doesn't prove that this is right for the individual. Show proof that help from god (in a medical book) is the only thing that works for homosexuals.

Here we go with the proof thing again. I have seen first-hand, the miracles that God can do, and the reformed lives. Do you have any evidence to show that there is a better plan that "works for homosexuals", aside from a story about your brother? And, if this story is true, aren't you concerned that your brother is going to contract HIV? Aren't your parents concerned that he will give them no grandchildren to love? Aren't you even the slightest bit worried that he is going to hell for his behaviour?

 

[blackout]

Originally Posted by Smoke
First and foremost, and apart from the harm you're inflicting on on gay men, stop foisting gay husbands off on straight women who trust you. Think about it. Do you want your daughters to marry gay men? Why would you purposely inflict such harm on these women?

Did I mention that I live in Heritage? There aren't too many secrets around here. If a man has given up his homosexual behaviour, he has been forgiven for it, and he no longer does it, why should we condemn him to a life of loneliness?

He will NEVER Love a Woman the right way.

What woman should be condemned to a partnership
with a man who deep down would prefer to be Loving and Living with
another man?

Suppression of his true and natural desires
will never make him see... and appreciate...
a woman with the Profound Adoration of a Lover.

It never pays,
trying to make people live as someone they're not.
You cannot make someone BE anyone but WHO THEY ARE.
You can only supress their actions. For a time.
(before they despair -- addiction, suicide etc
or "rebel" = Go back to living out who they are.)

Did I mention that I live in Heritage? There aren't too many secrets around here. If a man has given up his homosexual behaviour, he has been forgiven for it, and he no longer does it, why should we condemn him to a life of loneliness?

The REAL question is, of course,
Why should we condemn him AT ALL.

I do hope you consider giving up this misguided and harmful counciling.
We all make mistakes, and I'm sure there is forgiveness for you.

 

[Dr. James Robertson]

Because of people like you. You are the cause.

They listen to people like you, and their parents do, too, and so do their schoolmates. And they are left hopeless because they know they can never be what fools and bigots tell them they MUST be to be acceptable. So they kill themselves, and they use drugs, and they drink and they do other stupid things, because they hate themselves.

Because of you.

You are an apostle of despair.

Why stop there? Why not accuse me of forcing them to perform perverted acts on each other as well?

Come on...we're all responsible for our own sins. Fortunately, we can be forgiven for them.

 

[Dr. James Robertson]

As well you should, but obviously not those with the homosexual "mental illness." Those you treat yourself because, what, god said he doesn't like this particular "mental illness? Good thing god didn't say he didn't like left handed people or you'd be trying to force lefties to become righties.

I think that's a Catholic thing, actually.

I don't know why his expressed dislike for homosexuals extends some kind of permission to you to counsel people with this "mental illness," but perhaps you could explain.

I do it because they ask me to, or because their parents ask me to. Should I say no?

 

[blackout]

I do it because they ask me to, or because their parents ask me to. Should I say no?

Yes. You should say no.

In the second case especially, you should send the parents
to a qualified councelor.

 

[Dr. James Robertson]

Welcome to our little mad house.

Thank you.

There is now a very good body of knowledge that shows that Gay folks don't become straight.

I can only tell you what I have seen in my own congregation, which is that people who have indulged in sexual perversion can turn their lives around. I'm not sure what body of knowledge you are referring to, but it sounds depressing.

I for one do not have much use for divorce or adultery. With all that said that has very little to do with sexual preference.

Do you put any limitations on what you call "sexual preference"? For instance, is pedophilia a preference, or an illness?

 

[Dr. James Robertson]

Actually, living happy lives with the partners they naturally love,
is the only thing that works for homosexuals.


(you know... like anyone else...)

HIV, AIDS and other venereal diseases, drug abuse, suicide...I would hardly call that a happy life.

 

[Dr. James Robertson]

He will NEVER Love a Woman the right way.

What is difficult about loving a woman "the right way"? We have a young man in the congregation right now who is a former homosexual, and his first baby was just born, so obviously he must be doing something right.

What woman should be condemned to a partnership
with a man who deep down would prefer to be Loving and Living with
another man?

A man can be healed from that sort of thing if he puts faith in Christ. That's what you're not seeing.

 

[blackout]

HIV, AIDS and other venereal diseases, drug abuse, suicide...I would hardly call that a happy life.

If this is what you equate with loving homosexual partnerships,
I would recommend you go and VISIT some happily committed couples.

Counter your indoctrination with real life experiences
of happy homosexual couples,
living happy lives with jobs and a home,
and maybe even.... dare I say it?..... happy children.

If people... society... family... classmates... even councelors
did not CONDEMN, BULLY AND TRY TO CHANGE homosexuals,
do you THINK that maybe there would be a significant drop in despair
related behaviors?

You ALSO see drug use, suicide, venerial diseases, HIV, Aids in heterosexuals.
Is that some kind of indicator that heterosexuals are not happy?




With what credentials do you council?
(besides your religion)

 

[Skwim]

I think that's a Catholic thing, actually.



I do it because they ask me to, or because their parents ask me to. Should I say no?

Absolutely. The decent thing to do is admit you're unqualified to address any psychological issues, because, as you even acknowledge, you have no training to do so. Just because someone has a religious "calling" doesn't automatically confer any particular ability or skills. Even those who've gone through seminary training to become ministers have had several courses in counseling. You're just winging it, and in issues you regard as truly medical. I don't know how you can justify such ill-conceived intrusion. Just because people trust you doesn't mean their trust is well placed, and I believe you know it. The right and ethical thing to do is to excuse yourself from their problem and suggest they get professional help---as in those educated, trained, and certified in the field. You're out of your element here, and as I said before, are leaving yourself open to a possible law suit.

 

[blackout]

What is difficult about loving a woman "the right way"? We have a young man in the congregation right now who is a former homosexual, and his first baby was just born, so obviously he must be doing something right.

You think that MAKING A BABY is some kind of sign that he's Loving this woman,
in the profoundly adoring and erotic way a loving heterosexual (or even bi-sexual) man would?

Any man can impregnate a woman.
It certainly is no sign of anything at all.