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Hell's Creation
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
I have never seen a contrast of the opposing destinations of 'heaven and hell' in the Bible....can you find me some?
Adam was never informed about those choices...neither was the nation of Israel.
Adam was told that he would 'die and return to the dust' if he broke God's command concerning the fruit of the TOKGE. If hell was the punishment, why didn't God warn him about it? (Genesis 3:19)
The nation of Israel did not have a choice of 'heaven or hell either'.....God told them that they had "life and death" as their choices. (Deuteronomy 30:19-20)
In the Abrahamic religions, an excursion into pagan Greek philosophy was the basis for their beliefs in heaven and hell.....not the Bible. It depended on belief in an immortal soul, which is something that is also not taught in the Bible. If you invent immortal souls, you then have to invent places for them to go....
rational experiences
Veteran Member
In man's or male self presence, the only life body as a scientist that owns and used the expression of HE and also WILL, seeing he can move, manipulate and change by owning movement.
The Garden however was grounded.
If you owned a theory/theme to have the Nature which supported your own bio life on Earth removed as I will transport this Nature back into being spirit.
Spirit in science which everyone seems to overlook is the Heavenly gases.
A direct human confession I never wanted to own or live with form...I want everything converted back to just being God O stone and gas heavens without any Nature.
So invented a science theme...that just attacked the ground mass to a level where the Tree Nature was rooted, is a reality he has to face today. An occult liar historically as a scientist. The Satanist Destroyer self in person.
GOD O he falsely claims is a HOLY body. How come scientist you can convert the body of God O highest holy body and then claim HELL?
HE will he says EL power of God and L a calculation of one quarter + of the cross, mathematical probability to add?
Numbers, to force AGE upon a non aging body that never owned numbers or AGE!
Humans own age.
O a planet is one statement held fused...without a numbering factor.
To add means a formula has to be imposed and applied first in thinking to claim by AGE meaning what it is not, aging...then impose age. Which that male psyche knew was to kill God...or destroy God...remove God by the numbers, addition to own a formula to invent it....which is to take mass of God O energy back to a zero.
Yet spatial zero, just heated space and not radiating space is only with a heavenly gas, natural light. God O mass never owned that status...so it goes back to radiating mass and leftovers...for it is not just a gas, it was given radiation metal by the Sun attack.
So it had been given EXTRA mass in the statements about energy.
God in actual history of Sun extra mass was a burning alight once cold gas spirit of the stone mass...that expanded into just holding onto its stone particle fusion...and did not expand into total separation/destruction...as a collider theme.
Yet that status owns GOD becoming HELL......why Satanists today can dig up Earth cold mass in science archaeological digs, find artefacts human made and science equipment bound inside of stone fusion....the very reason.
So guess where all the bodies living atop of the Earth fell?
You know, humans and animals?
That would depend on the book(s) you've read and/or movies you've watched. I'm not a believer, but I like horror, fantasy and sci-fi books and movies so I'm usually up for these discussions as entertainment.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
OMG been waiting for your rebuttal on the issue of Hell but apparently your guns were silent.
I dozed off only to find you are here and still negating hell despite of the fact the proofs were shown to you.
OLD TESTAMENT BIBLE
Daniel 12:2 New International Version (NIV)
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE
Matthew 18:8 New International Version (NIV)
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Jude 7 New International Version (NIV)
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
Are these figurative?
Did Jesus Christ lie or are people making Jesus Christ a liar?
Did the apostles of Jesus continued this eternal fire lie - if this will not exist?
Actually God did,
Genesis 3:14-15 New International Version (NIV)
So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
The serpent as we know is Satan [the devil] and God said that to Satan
Who would crush Satan's head?
It is no other than the Lord Jesus Christ
And how would the Lord Jesus Christ ultimately crush the head of the devil?
Revelation 20:10 New International Version (NIV)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Aside from the devil, the beast and the false prophet thrown in the lake of burning sulfur?
Who else will be joining them?
Revelation 20:13-15 New International Version (NIV)
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
If these are figurative then why is the Bible consistent in saying it is hot there?
That there are worms that would not die and fire that will not be quenched - those came from the Lord Jesus Christ - why the graphic details?
Mark 9:47-48 New International Version (NIV)
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’
AGAIN FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT BIBLE
Isaiah 66:20-24 New International Version (NIV)
And they will bring all your people, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the Lord—on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels,” says the Lord. “They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the Lord in ceremonially clean vessels. And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites,” says the Lord.
“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
Now is the Lord Almighty joking or another figurative language?
This one was repeated by the Lord Jesus Christ in Mark 9:47-48
The Bible mentions fires of hell not once, not twice but plenty of times.
If it is not taught in the Bible then what the heck are these?
Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
James 3:6
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
Even your JW Bible teaches about Hell and these are from the Old Testament
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/isaiah/66/
20 They will bring all your brothers out of all the nations+ as a gift to Jehovah, on horses, in chariots, in covered wagons, on mules, and on swift camels, up to my holy mountain, Jerusalem,” says Jehovah, “just as when the people of Israel bring their gift in a clean vessel into the house of Jehovah.”21 “I will also take some for the priests and for the Levites,” says Jehovah.22 “For just as the new heavens and the new earth+ that I am making will remain standing before me,” declares Jehovah, “so your offspring* and your name will remain.”+23 “And from new moon to new moon and from sabbath to sabbath,All flesh* will come in to bow down before* me,”+ says Jehovah.24 “And they will go out and look on the carcasses of the men who rebelled against me;For the worms on them will not die,And their fire will not be extinguished,+And they will become something repulsive to all people.”*
I dozed off only to find you are here and still negating hell despite of the fact the proofs were shown to you.
OLD TESTAMENT BIBLE
Daniel 12:2 New International Version (NIV)
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
NEW TESTAMENT BIBLE
Matthew 18:8 New International Version (NIV)
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matthew 25:41 New International Version (NIV)
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Jude 7 New International Version (NIV)
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
Are these figurative?
Did Jesus Christ lie or are people making Jesus Christ a liar?
Did the apostles of Jesus continued this eternal fire lie - if this will not exist?
Actually God did,
Genesis 3:14-15 New International Version (NIV)
So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
The serpent as we know is Satan [the devil] and God said that to Satan
Who would crush Satan's head?
It is no other than the Lord Jesus Christ
And how would the Lord Jesus Christ ultimately crush the head of the devil?
Revelation 20:10 New International Version (NIV)
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Aside from the devil, the beast and the false prophet thrown in the lake of burning sulfur?
Who else will be joining them?
Revelation 20:13-15 New International Version (NIV)
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
If these are figurative then why is the Bible consistent in saying it is hot there?
That there are worms that would not die and fire that will not be quenched - those came from the Lord Jesus Christ - why the graphic details?
Mark 9:47-48 New International Version (NIV)
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where
“‘the worms that eat them do not die,
and the fire is not quenched.’
AGAIN FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT BIBLE
Isaiah 66:20-24 New International Version (NIV)
And they will bring all your people, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the Lord—on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels,” says the Lord. “They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the Lord in ceremonially clean vessels. And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites,” says the Lord.
“As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
Now is the Lord Almighty joking or another figurative language?
This one was repeated by the Lord Jesus Christ in Mark 9:47-48
The Bible mentions fires of hell not once, not twice but plenty of times.
If it is not taught in the Bible then what the heck are these?
Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
James 3:6
The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
Even your JW Bible teaches about Hell and these are from the Old Testament
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/isaiah/66/
20 They will bring all your brothers out of all the nations+ as a gift to Jehovah, on horses, in chariots, in covered wagons, on mules, and on swift camels, up to my holy mountain, Jerusalem,” says Jehovah, “just as when the people of Israel bring their gift in a clean vessel into the house of Jehovah.”21 “I will also take some for the priests and for the Levites,” says Jehovah.22 “For just as the new heavens and the new earth+ that I am making will remain standing before me,” declares Jehovah, “so your offspring* and your name will remain.”+23 “And from new moon to new moon and from sabbath to sabbath,All flesh* will come in to bow down before* me,”+ says Jehovah.24 “And they will go out and look on the carcasses of the men who rebelled against me;For the worms on them will not die,And their fire will not be extinguished,+And they will become something repulsive to all people.”*
LOL...I am quite amused by those who want or need God to burn people in hell forever? Is that something a God of love needs to do? Seriously? Isn't eternal death enough?
Hasn't God got better things to do than torture people forever?
Yes, God holds them in everlasting contempt, so they will be removed from life.....but we will not even remember them....it will be as if they never existed. (Isaiah 65:17)
Jeremiah recorded God's reaction to the Israelites sacrificing their children in the fire to Molech where he said...
"They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.’" (Jeremiah 32:35 NIV)
If God found child sacrifice in the fire a repugnant thing to do, something that never entered his mind, then why would he do that himself to his own children?
They are all speaking about eternal destruction....."gehenna" is a word you need to understand because the Jews whom Jesus addressed knew what he was speaking about. It meant that anything thrown into the fires of gehenna was consumed like rubbish, not tortured. It symbolized something going out of existence.
In Jeremiah's day children were sacrificed in the Valley of Hinnom.....that is gehenna.....God made the King convert that valley into a rubbish dump where the fires were kept burning day and night to consume the city's rubbish.....nothing alive ever went into gehenna because it was used as a symbol, not a literal place of burning human souls alive.
Fire is used in the Bible to picture complete and utter destruction. Have you ever been through a place where fires have absolutely devastated an area? There is little left but ashes......smouldering ashes......nothing is left. What did God do to the immoral people of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah? Did he torture them with the fire or did he annihilate them? What was the "pattern" God set? (Jude 7)
At 2 Peter 3:9....
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
The word "perish" there is "apollymi" which means to "destroy".
Matthew 10:28...
"28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. [gehenna]" .....Same word.
Souls are "destroyed" in gehenna.....that is what the Bible teaches.....but apparently your church does not. I got rid of hell a long time ago because it dishonors God and turns him into a monstrous fiend.
God has no need or desire to torture anyone. Israel's laws never involved torture as a punishment...they didn't even have jails.
I believe that you need a better Bible translation or at least to consult a concordance to find out original word meanings in the scriptures.....
Yes, the Bible's first prophesy. The devil would deliver a 'heel' wound to Jesus from which he recovered when God resurrected him....but the devil gets a fatal 'head' wound from Jesus when he is eventually taken out of existence in the symbolic "lake of fire". The final end for all the godless and disobedient people and the evil things that make life difficult in this world....they will never be seen again. Good riddance!
Gehenna was always on fire....sulfur (brimstone) was used to keep the fires of gehenna burning.
Nothing alive was ever cast there......and what the flames missed, the maggots finished off. A graphic but total end to those who were not found worthy of life.
There is no such place as "hell".....it is "gehenna".
According to Strongs Concordance....
"Hell is the place of the future punishment called "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction."
These verses are all "gehenna" ...please do some research and you will see that there is no burning hell of eternal torment......that is something satan would do.
Yes....just like gehenna....
Have you looked that up in the NIV? It says...."And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
You see the mention of the dead bodies....they are really dead bodies....
Since they are loathsome to mankind, will there be viewing platforms where living humans will go and watch the dead people get eaten by maggots? Ewwwwe....
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I do not think it is a joke. God / Allah needs hell to keep non-believers, atheists eternally in it. Like Auswitch or the British Circular Jail in Andaman islands equipped with all sorts of torture instruments. It will be created by God / Allah on the day of jugdment. At the moment, there is neither hell nor heaven. People will go there only after they have been judged. It will be a big contract, billions of room and services. Perhaps Donald Trump would be interested in the thousand floor construction. The Chinese will under-bid him, they will use 3-D technology.
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Nobody here calls themselves Abrahamites. Ask for a show of hands. Look at the back and forth between Flores and Deeje. Neither calls themselves Abrahamites, and neither agrees with the other about your topic.
As a Christian with liberal interpretation of the canon who believes a fundamental reading of the canon leads to a liberal interpretation and who values other canon as scripture also....what do i think about the origin of the doctrine of Hell as preached in the Middle Ages and more recently? As a child I was taught it was a place of eternal fire for those who heard the gospel and rejected it, but as an adult and after examining things I began to change my mind about it. It was one of the first differences I had with my childhood sunday school lessons and chick tracts. Early on to me it didn't make sense, because I thought God created the world to love people and with omniscience and full power over all aspects from past to future. I tried very hard to find a philosophical compatibility between a loving omniscient creator and the eternal torture of God's own beloved created beings. Unfortunately I was unable, and I was quite stubbornly unwilling to allow anyone to change my mind about it. I've always been extremely stubborn and unable to acknowledge my mental deficits. In later life I've come to realize I'm not the smartest, but I'm nevertheless unable to trust in the opinions of others. If you listen to me you're listening to someone who may very well be going to hell, but its out of stubbornness and mental failure. I've no intention of going there on purpose. Who would? Satanists? They make me laugh. I suppose that if I did go to hell only pain could keep me from laughing for all of eternity.
In fact the protestantism I grow up with is not very descriptive of hell and only of heaven with its golden streets. It does speak of hell as a place with flames and where satan and the demons dwell. I'm not sure if they are torturers there or fellow suffers or both or if everyone tortures everyone. The Muslim canon I later learn, on the other hand, is much more descriptive. It describes stubborn people such as myself in hell believing that we have been unfairly tossed into it, so by that description it doesn't matter what we think or whether we feel that we deserve it. I tend to question that though. Apparently it won't be me laughing but me in anger and tears. This is all because I'm stubborn or stupid I guess. Or both. Life is not without its dark humor, because I could swear to you that I've also been punished in this life for being stubborn and stupid. I guess there's just no escape.\
Hell is in truth a stumbling stone to those would prefer to think rationally through the doctrines.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
LOL...I am quite amused by those who want or need God to burn people in hell forever? Is that something a God of love needs to do? Seriously? Isn't eternal death enough?
Hasn't God got better things to do than torture people forever?
Have I not replied that I am one of those who recognizes that God is:
Hebrews 12:28-29 New International Version (NIV)
Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire.”
and you have no reply for it.
you ran away.
But the Israelites know that God is a consuming fire.
Deuteronomy 4:24 New International Version (NIV)
For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
Only the non bible readers, do not know that God is a consuming fire.
Their idea of god is a lie, someone who is not in the Bible.
It is true that God is love but it is reciprocal in nature.
Deuteronomy 7:9-10 New International Version (NIV)
Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments. But
those who hate him he will repay to their face by destruction;
he will not be slow to repay to their face those who hate him.
I believe your Jehovah is not this God written in the Bible
I believe your Jehovah is like Jack Kevorkian
An American pathologist, euthanasia proponent, and convicted murderer. He publicly championed a terminal patient's right to die. One injection and everything is over and cease to exists.
Then why did Jesus Christ mentioned in SUCH GRAPHIC DETAIL the following:
Matthew 10:14-15 New International Version (NIV)
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
A lot of people died in Sodom and Gomorrah and majority died before they could scream, am I correct?
And I believe nothing compares to God's power even what happened to Nagasaki and Hiroshima, am I correct?
People died instantaneously at Sodom and Gomorrah. Who do you think did this?
It was God - who is like a consuming fire.
Yet the Lord Jesus Christ said Sodom and Gomorrah will be more bearable come judgement day for the unwelcoming towns.
Did the Lord Jesus Christ kid?
Did he joked?
Or are you going to call Jesus a liar?
And the apostles expounded on Sodom and Gomorrah's event
But for your reading pleasure I will use the JW bible so you would ponder about this
The link is shown below from JW org
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/jude/1/
7 In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality* and pursued unnatural fleshly desires;+ they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.+
the judicial punishment of everlasting fire
Bird123
Well-Known Member
You are right about one thing. Hell is a creation of mankind.
What mankind can not fix; mankind destroys. Hey, mankind thinks God must do the same using Hell.
Next, if you are having a hard time convincing followers, use fear and intimidation. Eternal fire is a pretty good fear tactic to coerce those followers in line.
Blame is another petty thing mankind holds so dear. They created Satan in order to have someone to Blame for all the trouble in the world and for all our bad choices. Where else is this Satan going to live but Hell.
If God created Hell even knowing someone would go there, would not that make God a Monster?
If you sweep away mankind's ideas and the petty things mankind hold so dear, the picture changes. God is at a Higher Level. Given enough lessons, every one of God's kids are going to make it to a Heavenly state. God could never be at that Higher Level if this was not true.
So make your free choices. Gotta have that monster, want to hate, condemn and payback others, or gotta have someone to blame, keep all that hurt in your mind. If not, Heaven can only exist at a Higher Level. The monsters,condemning, hating, payback and blaming must go if you are going to create a heavenly state for yourself.
Now there are some souls who insist on dark, dank, hurt, hate, payback, blame, control, and punishment. Worry not, given enough time, at some point one of us will pull you out of the Swamp so you can feel the warmth of the Light, the Love, and the Kindness. All the kiddies will make it.
That's what I see. It's very clear!!
the elohim may have not wanted adam to know, or maybe didn't know themselves?I have never seen a contrast of the opposing destinations of 'heaven and hell' in the Bible....can you find me some?
Adam was never informed about those choices...neither was the nation of Israel.
Adam was told that he would 'die and return to the dust' if he broke God's command concerning the fruit of the TOKGE. If hell was the punishment, why didn't God warn him about it? (Genesis 3:19)
The nation of Israel did not have a choice of 'heaven or hell either'.....God told them that they had "life and death" as their choices. (Deuteronomy 30:19-20)
In the Abrahamic religions, an excursion into pagan Greek philosophy was the basis for their beliefs in heaven and hell.....not the Bible. It depended on belief in an immortal soul, which is something that is also not taught in the Bible. If you invent immortal souls, you then have to invent places for them to go....
What does “jealous” mean? Have you never heard of someone “consumed” by jealousy? God responds to wickedness by being “consumed” by his justified anger. It is an all consuming but controlled rage which his enemies will feel before they are taken out of existence.
Go back over my post and see what you ran away from.....you ignored all the scripture that disagrees with the idea of a hell of eternal torture. The Bible itself puts a hose on hell. The God of Jesus Christ is not an unjust God. Under his law, the penalty always fits the crime. Eternal punishment for the sins of a short lifetime is not justice. Punishment was designed to elicit repentance...leading to forgiveness.......there is no way to repent in your hellfire.
“For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!”—Ezekiel 18:32 NIV (Ezekiel 33:11)
Only the righteous are promised eternal life....but in order to punish the wicked forever, God would also have to grant them eternal life...would he not? If they are suffering then they are alive.
Your God is not my God.
Yep...there you have it again....”But those who hate him he will repay to their face by destruction”......not torture. You keep missing what is right in front of your nose. What does “destruction” mean in your definition?
Apparently you have never watched a loved one with a terminal illness suffering, with no prospects for a cure...only more suffering. Does God require this?
I am not an advocate of active euthanasia, but I do support passive euthanasia, which simply means withdrawing all artificial means of perpetuating human suffering. Passive euthanasia does not break the laws of God or man. No one can force someone to suffer, so if you refuse to eat and drink, your organs will shut down, you will lapse into unconsciousness and peacefully pass away. It simply allows a terminally ill person to end their life on their own terms. But if you believe that God enjoys watching people suffer, then I can understand why you might have a problem with that.
No, neither God, nor his Christ have lied....the churches who support hellfire have lied.
The people of Sodom and Gomorrah were incorrigibly immoral. They were not salvageable, so God took them out of existence. Probably much like the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki....they would not have known what hit them. It was mercifully quick, not protracted. He did not need to torture them to enact his justice. He annihilated them.
And the apostles expounded on Sodom and Gomorrah's event
But for your reading pleasure I will use the JW bible so you would ponder about this
The link is shown below from JW org
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/jude/1/
7 In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality* and pursued unnatural fleshly desires;+ they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.
The consuming fire of God’s anger will never be extinguished. It’s a fact that disobedience and defiance makes him angry. The “lake of fire” remains as the symbolic receptacle for those who defy God’s laws and abuse their free will with complete disregard as to how their behavior affects others......these will warrant a quick judgment and execution....there is no longer any reason to keep such ones in existence to spread their poison and to corrupt others. Free will continues forever as the gift God intended it to be.
Revelation 20:13 tells us that “death and hades” are thrown into “the lake of fire”......what is “hades” in your Bible?
If God did not reveal to Adam all the information regarding the penalty for disobedience, then he was not permitting him to use his God-given free will. If there was a hell of eternal torment, then Adam had a right to know about it as it may have altered his course. He had to exercise his free will, but an uninformed choice is never going to be the right one...is it?
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
It is sure is printed clearly in the JW Bible
JW org link: https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/revelation/20/
13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave* gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds.+ 14 And death and the Grave* were hurled into the lake of fire.+ This means the second death,+ the lake of fire.+ 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life+ was hurled into the lake of fire.+
hurl verb
past tense: hurled; past participle: hurled
throw (an object) with great force.
And that is in the Jehovah's Witness Bible
How come your bible does not agree with you?
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
You got that right.
Your Bible says one thing and you either fret away or leave the JW bible unexplained.
Please explain why the JW Bible said this and you don't believe what is printed.
I would remind you this is in the Old Testament
But for your reading pleasure I will use the JW bible so you would ponder about this
The link is shown below from JW org
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/jude/1/
7 In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality* and pursued unnatural fleshly desires;+ they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.+
the judicial punishment of everlasting fire
John's Revelation was a vision about future events...many of which we are seeing at present and in the recent past. He was seeing the vision as if it was happening right then.It is sure is printed clearly in the JW Bible
JW org link: https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/revelation/20/
13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, and death and the Grave* gave up the dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds.+ 14 And death and the Grave* were hurled into the lake of fire.+ This means the second death,+ the lake of fire.+ 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life+ was hurled into the lake of fire.+
hurl verb
past tense: hurled; past participle: hurled
throw (an object) with great force.
And that is in the Jehovah's Witness Bible
How come your bible does not agree with you?
Hades is the grave but for centuries it was called "hell". (see Matthew 11:23 KJV) Where did the concept of "hell" originate? Not from the Bible, even though symbolic verses have been interpreted literally in an attempt to paint the true God as a demon god.....a fiendish torturer. I gave you scripture to show that he is nothing like that but you don't want to know.
King Solomon wrote: “A live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol ["hades"...mankind’s common grave], the place to which you are going.” (Ecclesiastes 9:4, 5, 10)
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“Hell” & “Gehenna” are different.Have I not replied that I am one of those who recognizes that God is:
Hebrews 12:28-29 New International Version (NIV)
Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, for our “God is a consuming fire.”
and you have no reply for it.
you ran away.
But the Israelites know that God is a consuming fire.
Deuteronomy 4:24 New International Version (NIV)
For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
Only the non bible readers, do not know that God is a consuming fire.
Their idea of god is a lie, someone who is not in the Bible.
It is true that God is love but it is reciprocal in nature.
Deuteronomy 7:9-10 New International Version (NIV)
Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments. But
those who hate him he will repay to their face by destruction;
he will not be slow to repay to their face those who hate him.
I believe your Jehovah is not this God written in the Bible
I believe your Jehovah is like Jack Kevorkian
View attachment 41097
An American pathologist, euthanasia proponent, and convicted murderer. He publicly championed a terminal patient's right to die. One injection and everything is over and cease to exists.
Then why did Jesus Christ mentioned in SUCH GRAPHIC DETAIL the following:
Matthew 10:14-15 New International Version (NIV)
If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
A lot of people died in Sodom and Gomorrah and majority died before they could scream, am I correct?
And I believe nothing compares to God's power even what happened to Nagasaki and Hiroshima, am I correct?
People died instantaneously at Sodom and Gomorrah. Who do you think did this?
It was God - who is like a consuming fire.
Yet the Lord Jesus Christ said Sodom and Gomorrah will be more bearable come judgement day for the unwelcoming towns.
Did the Lord Jesus Christ kid?
Did he joked?
Or are you going to call Jesus a liar?
And the apostles expounded on Sodom and Gomorrah's event
But for your reading pleasure I will use the JW bible so you would ponder about this
The link is shown below from JW org
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/nwt/books/jude/1/
7 In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality* and pursued unnatural fleshly desires;+ they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.+
the judicial punishment of everlasting fire
Jacob said that when he died, he was going to Hell. Genesis 37:35, Douay-Rheims (a Catholic) Bible (And according to the DRB, Jacob thought his son Joseph was also in Hell):
“And all his children being gathered together to comfort their father in his sorrow, he would not receive comfort, but said: I will go down to my son into hell, mourning. And whilst he continued weeping, “
Here’s BibleHub on that verse....
Genesis 37:35 All his sons and daughters tried to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. "No," he said. "I will go down to Sheol mourning for my son." So his father wept for him.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
I suspect....heaven and hell are the SAME place
if you fit in....no poblem
if you don't.....
oh hell
Yes...death is “hurled into the Lake of Fire.”
Death is an intangible thing; you can’t ‘burn’ death. It simply means that death inherited from Adam will be gone forever. It will “be no more” — Revelation 21:4