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Help in becoming a religious man

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Asking for hard evidence of God is like asking for hard evidence that someone is in love. The spiritual, as with the emotional, is abstract. It's like art. So you're failing at the foundation by viewing it as something like hard science. I've noticed that this problem is common among Western atheists. You have to change how you categorize the concept of deity or else you'll never get it.
 
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maxxwyatt

New Member
that i understand. but isnt that spirituality not religion?

I dont see why a god needs to come into play for a religious experience.

Just set up an alter with perhaps candles and incense and celebrate the natural order of things as they already are.
 

maxxwyatt

New Member
i am from italy.

you can actually prove love by an electroencephalography. different parts of the brain associated with love and effect light up when you are around or even thinking about your loved one than lets say when your around another person.

Asking for hard evidence of God is like asking for hard evidence that someone is in love. The spiritual, as with the emotional, is abstract. It's like art. So you're failing at the foundation by viewing it as something like hard science. I've noticed that this problem is common among Western atheists. You have to change how you categorize the concept of deity or else you'll never get it.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
i am from italy.

you can actually prove love by an electroencephalography. different parts of the brain associated with love and effect light up when you are around or even thinking about your loved one than lets say when your around another person.

That's the physical effect of love on the brain, not love itself. There's similar things with spiritual experiences causing effects on the brain. But it's not the love or the spiritual experience itself.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
i think hard evidence might look like people not killing in the name of religion. IE muslims law stating the death penalty for renouncing their religion. Thats a start.

Sorry but I can't see the sense in that position at all. Are you thinking no bad behavior by religionists would be 'hard evidence' for God?

Either way I highly respect your non-dual view. One question though, when you say looking inward to find god what do you mean exactly?

All consciousness is ultimately One. It can't be completely described but it has been called sat-chit-ananda (being-awareness-bliss) by Hindu mystics. Our true consciousness is distorted by our ego concerns. By quieting the ego by practices like meditation and various spiritual paths we experience more of our true consciousness; the One/God/Brahman. By going inward and quieting the external interests we will find more peace and well-being. This is actually the process of finding God within.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
that i understand. but isnt that spirituality not religion?

Personally, I make no distinction between these two terms. I understand why Westerners started making the distinction in the last century or so, but I disagree strongly with the reasons for it. It's grounded in a telescopic understanding of what religion is rather than observing what religion is as a whole. Everything "spirituality" does, religion does.
 

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

What do you think you've done that qualifies as 'trying hard'?
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

I am a theist. But there is no scientific evidence that prove or disprove God: Theism is based on faith. Although I feel I have experienced God, that is hardly evidence to someone else.
 
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

It's wonderful to want proof that God exists, and as an intelligent being, it's only natural that one would need facts to confirm that there is indeed a creator. In fact it is agreeable to God that we do so. The book, "What does the Bible really Teach?" Gives detailed information about the subject, and you can download it for free on the JW official website.

What convinced me that the Bible is the word of God, is that there are hundreds of Bible prophecies that were written centuries beforehand and have come true.
Some are still in the process of being fulfilled. One example is Jesus' prophecy about the destruction of Jerusalem in Matthew Chapter 24. In the year 70, the Romans destroyed the city. The Christians who listened to Jesus, got out safely and survived. The book of Revelation gives many details about how our future will unfold. It is a wonderful book of hope for humanity.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Just curious, Maxxwyat, but why do you care whether or not you believe in god? What motivates you to care?

Are you looking for some solace or comfort to come from such a belief? Do you wish, perhaps, to drive away some fears you harbor about your place in the universe or about the meaninglessness of life?

Do people significant to you believe in god and you want to share that with them for the sake of community?

Or is there some other reason or reasons you care whether or not you believe in god?

So far as I know, it is easy to believe in god. All most of us need is a strong enough motive. With a strong enough motive for belief -- not just in god, but in anything, really -- most of us will sooner or later find some way to believe. And not just those of us who lack intellectual discipline. Plenty of relatively intellectually disciplined people have found ways to escape their discipline in order to believe all sorts of things -- one just needs a strong enough motive, really.

But belief or faith alone is never certain. Even the most staunch believers, the most faithful people I personally know of have doubts. They go from belief to doubt -- quite often very privately -- and doubt to belief. Back and forth, like that. They are a little bit like addicts who keep falling off the wagon only to pick themselves up again and get back on it for awhile. So, I suspect belief or faith alone will never be much more than that for you. Of course, I could be wrong. You might be the exception.

Assuming all of the above is substantially true, would that suffice for you? Would you be content finding a motive strong enough to believe in a god and then wax and wane between periods of belief and doubt like most every person of faith that I personally know of?

Or would you prefer something different?

For there is something different. On relatively rare occasions, some people report experiencing what appears to be a sense of oneness that has been called by many names, including: The All, the One, God, etc. The significant thing here is that they typically do not see what happened to them as a mere shift in beliefs, but as a radically different kind of experience, and some even say that experience leaves all concepts meaningless. A belief, of course, is a concept.

Here is something those people sometimes say: You can be a blind man who believes leaves are green or a sighted man who has experienced leaves as green. The sighted man does not need belief, for he has experience instead.

Now, Maxxwyat, I personally question their experience on a number of levels. For instance, does their experience actually tell them something about god, or is it more like our common experience of color -- which might ultimately be produced by electromagnetic energy in the light spectrum, but which is not an actually property of that spectrum. Again, is their experience somehow produced by deity, or is it solely a product of the brain?

I have all sorts of questions for such people and, in my experience, the shallowest experiences of oneness produce people with the greatest conviction and dogma in asserting that they really experienced god. The most profound experiences of oneness, on the other hand, seem to produce people who hesitate to assert any absolute convictions about what their experiences mean about the nature and existence of deity, although they might still be certain they had the experience of oneness.

But if you are looking for more than a mere belief or faith in deity, I would suggest you begin by reading the accounts of people who claim to have experienced an overwhelming sense of oneness, a One, an All, or a God in their lives. I have spent about 35 years on and off studying such things and for me, at least, it has been quite an interesting journey. I do not regret spending so much time, year in and year out, with it. Speaking only for myself, it's like trying to figure out a rather large and intriguing puzzle. Fortunately, I have learned nothing of importance yet, so the puzzle is always fresh and challenging.

My last question to you is a bit different than the rest. Are you assuming that spirituality is the same as some notion, belief, or faith in deity? I ask because one way of looking at spirituality is to see it as the extent and manner in which a person deals with their psychological self, their ego, and all of the consequences and effects of being an animal with an ego or psychological self. In that sense, everyone is in one way or another, to one extent or another, spiritual. Even those of us who have no gods.
 
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Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

Good morning/afternoon/evening to you too kind Sir.

I believe the best scientific evidence is the composition of the human body. God says that He created humans from earth/dust and water. He also says that with water everything lives - nothing can live without water, even though some can live just as much as a little longer than others.

Note: creation from earth/dust is mentioned in the Bible, but the "water" part is mentioned in the Quran only, as far as I know. If it was mentioned in the Bible, I'd love if someone would kindly link me to it, with my utmost appreciation.
 
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Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

to many of us, the physical world is evidence that 'something' exists because how could any of this exist without something to bring it all together in such an organized fashion???

'every house is constructed by somebody' ... but who constructed the universe and its billions of stars and planets? who set it all in motion? Something must have done so.

Other then the physical world, the bible has proved to be a book of superior wisdom and a book that foretells the future... no man could see into the future with such accuracy. So the other big line of evidence is prophecy.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Any said claim of proof is hopelessly lacking. We see already how biology forms new life through dna and cells. The "creators" remain microscopic and yes, quite organic and natural. There is nothing whatsoever that says I am God of it's own accord. Nothing at all. Just human beings thinking and pretending that and saying such "on their behalf" to look and behold that God exists, even in direct face of a hopelessly (and notably ) lacking entity that simply dosent speak or announce directly, of which the notions stay internal and in the mind, making the entire argument quite one sided and suspect.

Nature itself is silent and remains silent. Therefore nothing that requires any proving by way of an answer is already there plain as day. The truth of the matter already has presented itself and pretty much settles the question. Some people have a hard and difficult time accepting that.
 

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

This is all you need to know. Starts properly at around 1:20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjz16xjeBAA
 

TheGunShoj

Active Member
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

I don't know why you would want to force yourself to believe. In my opinion, that's impossible. All you can do is a lot of research and weigh the evidence with your own reasoning and critical thinking skills. That evidence will either convince you or it won't. You don't choose to be convinced of the truth of something.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I don't know why you would want to force yourself to believe. In my opinion, that's impossible. All you can do is a lot of research and weigh the evidence with your own reasoning and critical thinking skills. That evidence will either convince you or it won't. You don't choose to be convinced of the truth of something.
You know, I do agree here completely that the type of approach through critical thinking and reasoning would serve best.

Still, I wonder upon reflection as to whats the harm in making God come "alive" within the psyche of your own living being and reflecting the ideology that it brings to a person. It's sorta like having your cake and eating it too. God is essentially "alive" in that it comes from a breathing living being and to follow what speaks deep within oneself through a proxy might solve the condundrum of having a technically real God to follow while still accepting of the fact that any external existence of God outside oneself still remains mute and silent.

It might provide a solution here in this particular regard.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Good Morning All,

I am an astrophysicist, by nature I need proof and solid evidence for me to understand and believe the phenomenon about nature and my surroundings. With that being said, I have tried really hard to believe in God but I just can't. There is no proof what so ever that he exists. I know their are bibles but how can you prove these books are not work of fiction?

I tried hard to find some proof in God but just can't. Is there anybody out there that can show me some hard evidence that God does in fact exist?

After being on this forums for a while, I think no one can help anyone in this aspect.

Only you can help yourself by searching the subject with an open heart.
 
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