Help!!!!!

[Metempsychosis]

Hi,

I have done some deep introspection and am now satisfied with what i have found. My path is a path that leads to the Self, God. In what ever way find necissary i will do that to get to the Self. The limits between religions are illusionary, so i dont see the reason to pick one. The real religion lies within the Heart, the Kingdom of God. There everything is found, there everything just is. I have chosen to do some simple austerities and they are:

Drink and eat dairy products, water, and orange juice. (This is just for living healthy)

Limit the eating of meat, or just dont eat any

Eat many fruits and vegetables and nuts

Fast one day a week

Meditate two hours a day during the week and four hours a day on the weekend

Remember God, so chant!

See God in all humans, animals, insects, and plants

Cease to serve the senses

My definition of an Austerity is that which allows material distractions to cease so concentration can be more on the Spiritual Path.

Thank You!

You have changed your name yet again.Hope you realise the self!

Cheers.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Hi everyone,

i have been having some religious problems lately. I was a Shaivite Hindu for a while and then became interested in Buddhism, but because of my lack of maturity I believe in went into it way to quickly. I miss God, the notion of a Soul, and things like that. So i did some deep introspection and contemplation and found what i really believe in and now I would like some help on finding what religion, or sect of a religion best follows these beliefs:

Is there a God- Yes
Is there a soul- Yes
What is my favorite path to God- Bhakti, yes I love devotion, chanting, and praying

Im doing this because i have grown to love this community and believe that you all can help me grow and find whats right for me. I have been doing religious searching for 3 years now and would like to find my niche. First I was interested in Advaita, then Zen, then Shaivism, then Vajrayana, now i just want to find a religion and settle down into it.

So could some people help me to find what religion fits best, or sect of religion fits best. And i thank before hand those who do help. And I dont want answers like, Stop seeking, or do nothing, etc. Im really not into that right now.

Thanks.

You have your criteria now and have made some decisions. Explore and test those for yourself and forget the labels. You don't need limitations that established religion brings to the table. To paraphrase Shunryu Suzuki, "A beginners mind is the freest of which no limitations exist".
I like the Buddhist notion of formal training, informal mind.

Take care of yourself.

 

[Madhuri]

I am glad you are back and happy that you have discovered your goal.

 

[Self]

I also did go back to the worship of Shiva, but i wouldnt call it main line Shaivism that im following.

Shiva is the destroyer, so I see him as the destroyer of Ego too. There is one thing that destroyes Ego and that is self-awareness. Therefore Self-Awareness is Shiva. I have decided not to follow mainline Shaivism as I am beginning to find that all religions have their limitations so I will let God (Shiva) manifest before me in the best way he finds to get my attention and turn inward.

 

[Self]

[youtube]yV7A_Ob8wCo[/youtube]
YouTube - 03-Ramana Maharshi - The Sage of Arunachala


please watch

 

[Madhuri]

I also did go back to the worship of Shiva, but i wouldnt call it main line Shaivism that im following.

Shiva is the destroyer, so I see him as the destroyer of Ego too. There is one thing that destroyes Ego and that is self-awareness. Therefore Self-Awareness is Shiva. I have decided not to follow mainline Shaivism as I am beginning to find that all religions have their limitations so I will let God (Shiva) manifest before me in the best way he finds to get my attention and turn inward.

I think this is good. Even in the Gita Krishna says to give up all religion and just surrender unto Him. God guides from within

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Honestly guys, as a Buddhist, I must say that Buddhism is not atheistic. It seems I hear it all the time, but seriously, it's not. The Buddha taught the existence of the soul in his dharma. He taught the existence of the Hindu gods in his dharma. Some schools of Buddhism have tried to make Buddhism atheistic, but it isn't. The Buddha taught gods, demons, elemental spirits, heavens, hells, all in his dharma.

 

[Madhuri]

Honestly guys, as a Buddhist, I must say that Buddhism is not atheistic. It seems I hear it all the time, but seriously, it's not. The Buddha taught the existence of the soul in his dharma. He taught the existence of the Hindu gods in his dharma. Some schools of Buddhism have tried to make Buddhism atheistic, but it isn't. The Buddha taught gods, demons, elemental spirits, heavens, hells, all in his dharma.

Then what do you believe separates Buddhism from Hinduism?

I must say, it seems that most Buddhists in the world are atheists. Why do you think that is?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Madhuri I'd like to know that myself. As I pointed out, one can read sutras and see the Buddha making statements about Indra, Brahma, and other Hindu gods. I think possibly because Buddhism doesn't make it an issue if one is an atheist. Buddhism says that an atheist can still follow the precepts, which is the bare minimum required of a lay person.

 

[Madhuri]

Madhuri I'd like to know that myself. As I pointed out, one can read sutras and see the Buddha making statements about Indra, Brahma, and other Hindu gods. I think possibly because Buddhism doesn't make it an issue if one is an atheist. Buddhism says that an atheist can still follow the precepts, which is the bare minimum required of a lay person.

I would be really interested in knowing more about this and where these concepts are written. Would you mind creating a thread about it in the Buddhism DIR section?

 

[Onkara]

Regarding Buddhism one impression is that it is a way the agnostic or atheist can reach the divine i.e. Nirvana. Once the divine is reached then all dharmic paths (to my knowledge) remind us that the search is over, (not that life is over). The idea of God can get in the way for some indviduals, in the same way that rituals, symbols and tradition can distract the devotee. One´s mind can become caught on inner-debate on which God to worship and how and miss the goal. It doesn't imply that there is no God, I agree as Yosef says.

For those who intuitively believe in God but have "doubts" then Madhuri is right, as long as our mind is focused on Krishna or Shiva then we will surely reach Him. The Bhagavad Gita is a beautiful guide until the inner Guru is allowed to lead us in full.

Which leads me to the posts of Odion and Gursikh Ji. I think Sikhism is the closest to bhakti and advaita that I have yet come across. The seeker worships nirguna God (formless) whilst catering for both duality and non-duality www.srigranth.org. There is no priest system, so no barriers of caste or ability. There is no rituals or superstition, mediation, prayer and singing are a part of the way. One minded focusing on Satnaam. There is also no need for proselytizing... so you had better ignore my post

Best wishes!

 

[Metempsychosis]

Honestly guys, as a Buddhist, I must say that Buddhism is not atheistic. It seems I hear it all the time, but seriously, it's not. The Buddha taught the existence of the soul in his dharma. He taught the existence of the Hindu gods in his dharma. Some schools of Buddhism have tried to make Buddhism atheistic, but it isn't. The Buddha taught gods, demons, elemental spirits, heavens, hells, all in his dharma.

Atheism is a disbelief in afterlife...Buddhism does not deny rebirth.There is no religion without afterlife(but there can be religion without god) .Regarding whether Buddhism denies god...we have to find this meaning of the word "god" .

IMHO,Only dualistic conception of god requires soul....monistic philosophy like advaita or buddhism(that talk of complete union of atma and paramatma),does not require " soul " in its absolute sense.Because supersoul/god being infinite includes the soul.

Buddha also talks of Void which is similar to the brahmapada of Lord Shiva (in tantra).

Shunya=Bindu—that is, the Parabindu, or Ishvara, having as its centre the abode of Brahman (Brahmapada).

Within it (Sahasara) is the full Moon, without the mark of the hare, resplendent as in a clear sky. It sheds its rays in profusion, and is moist and cool like nectar. Inside it , constantly shining like lightning, is the Triangle and inside this, again, shines the Great Void which is served in secret by all the Suras.Some call it the Brahman ; others call it the Hamsa. Wise men describe it as the abode of Vishnu, and righteous men speak of it as the ineffable place of knowledge of the Atma, or the place of liberation/nirvana.

-------SHATCHAKRA NIRUPANA (The Serpent Power by Sir John Woodroffe)

 

[Self]

Shunya=Bindu—that is, the Parabindu, or Ishvara, having as its centre the abode of Brahman (Brahmapada).

Within it (Sahasara) is the full Moon, without the mark of the hare, resplendent as in a clear sky. It sheds its rays in profusion, and is moist and cool like nectar. Inside it , constantly shining like lightning, is the Triangle and inside this, again, shines the Great Void which is served in secret by all the Suras.Some call it the Brahman ; others call it the Hamsa. Wise men describe it as the abode of Vishnu, and righteous men speak of it as the ineffable place of knowledge of the Atma, or the place of liberation/nirvana.

-------SHATCHAKRA NIRUPANA (The Serpent Power by Sir John Woodroffe)

How i would look at this is that the Sahasrara is the crown chakra and because of its state it is very clear. Its rays symbolize its divinity and its moist and cool like nectar tells of its sweetness and that its refreshing. The triangle, well im not sure what that means. But, once you get threw all of that you reach a formless realm where all that there is, is consciousness. Here you have gone beyond all the chakras, and have now penetrated the Crown. Now you are to abide in the Self, Atma, God, Brahman, etc.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Mahuri I will gather together sources and quotes from Buddhist sutras and try to start that topic. Give me time please, that's all I ask.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Honestly guys, as a Buddhist, I must say that Buddhism is not atheistic. It seems I hear it all the time, but seriously, it's not. The Buddha taught the existence of the soul in his dharma. He taught the existence of the Hindu gods in his dharma. Some schools of Buddhism have tried to make Buddhism atheistic, but it isn't. The Buddha taught gods, demons, elemental spirits, heavens, hells, all in his dharma.

Sorry but almost all major schools of Buddhism would seem to disagree with your statement. There are simply no points or positions to be made in regards to Gods and notions involving the supernatural. It's not addressed at all as far as the major schools are concerned. That is not to say that hybrids involving a mix of Buddhism and Hinduism (or other) isn't around though.

 

[Madhuri]

Mahuri I will gather together sources and quotes from Buddhist sutras and try to start that topic. Give me time please, that's all I ask.

Sure
And thank you.

 

[Self]

Sorry but almost all major schools of Buddhism would seem to disagree with your statement. There are simply no points or positions to be made in regards to Gods and notions involving the supernatural. It's not addressed at all as far as the major schools are concerned. That is not to say that hybrids involving a mix of Buddhism and Hinduism (or other) isn't around though.

I dont agree with what you are saying. Buddha specifically says that Brahma talked him into teaching Dharma. He also stayed silent on subjects such a God and Soul. So really its up to the individual on this subject. But, Buddha also said dont worry about it. He said its like being shot by a poison arrow and wondering were it came from, who did it, who made it, why me, when instead you could be busy on taking it out of your chest and getting the poison out.

 

[SugaCubez352]

Honestly guys, as a Buddhist, I must say that Buddhism is not atheistic. It seems I hear it all the time, but seriously, it's not. The Buddha taught the existence of the soul in his dharma. He taught the existence of the Hindu gods in his dharma. Some schools of Buddhism have tried to make Buddhism atheistic, but it isn't. The Buddha taught gods, demons, elemental spirits, heavens, hells, all in his dharma.

I was born and raised a (Khmer) Theravada Buddhist. I have lots of elders in my family who are monks and nuns. Never in my life as a Buddhist have I ever heard any elder or monk teach about a god of group of gods. I have never seen statues of Brahma or Indra in any Wats I have ever been too, nor have I ever seen any Buddhist I know perform puja to any god. I have never experienced any elder in my Sangha talk and teach about elemental spirits or demons.

If Buddhists are supposed to believe on gods, then somebody forgot to teach me about them... well actually they did

It's called Bhavachakka in Pali which means the Wheel of Becoming. The Bhavachakka is made of about 31 or 32 "planes of existences" in which Samsara (the cycle of rebirth) happens.

For most people new to Buddhism there is a misunderstanding that the cycle of rebirth means only that souls/spirits/Mind is trapped in some endless cycle of birth and death on this earth, which is incorrect. Samsara happens Bhavachakka-wide. All Beings existing in the Bhavachakka are subject to Samsara, including the Devattas ("gods").

The 31 planes of the Bhavachakka are divided into 4 sections. The first for is called "Apaya-pumi" or "Apaya-bhumi." The Apayabhumi has 4 places or levels which is translated into English as "Hells," but it should be translated as "Plane of Misery." The 4 places or levels each have there own divisions.

After that is the "Kamasugati-bhumi" which roughly means the "World of Desire and Happiness." The Kamasugatibhumi has has 7 places or "departments" or whatever. The lowest department of the Kamasugati is the Physical Universe the Earth is found in... which is where we are all at right now.

Above the Kamasugatibhumi is the "Rupavachara bhumi" which roughly means the "Plane of Form." This has 4 levels. This is where most of the Devattas are found.

Lastly in the Bhavachakka is the "Arupavachara bhumi" which means roughly "World of Formlessness." Devattas live here, and it also has 4 sections.

So altogether with all of its departments and subdivisions there are 32 realms of existence to which our physical universe is but one. And all beings in the Bhavachakka are subject to samsara according to their karmic merit at any time.

Also according to one's karmic merit and mental state you commit and have in this life determines where you will be reborn when this mortal life expires. So "rebirth" and "cycle of rebirth" doesn't mean (in Theravada Buddhism at least) that its just a circular birth and death on earth.

What you do here, your state of mind, the level of your enlightenment determines wherein the Bhavachakka you will go. And since the word "chakka" (Pali for Chakra meaning Wheel) is a wheel, samsara is hence described as a "cycle."

So in Theradava Buddhism, it is actually a fallacy to think that if I do bad things in this life that I will be reborn in a next life as a beggar or something awful because of my bad karma. I would actually be "reborn" in one of the apayabhumis. And my stay in the apayabhumis is not determined or preordained. It's not like something punished me by having me be reborn in the apayabhumis for 100 life times or something. You stay there until you yourself learn that negative thoughts, emotions, and actions has manifested such hellish misery. Whe you have intimately experienced this realization, you are free to be reborn on the earth to work your way up.

This form of "self punishment" seems unrealistic, but we must keep in mind that Bhavachakka is a whole Causal system... meaning that Karma or Causality - Cause and Fruit - is the fundamental essence or law. So that it is actually our thoughts that causally manifests as our experience.

An example of such forms of self punishment and Misery in this world is perhaps a drug addict, or compulsive gambler you see? Such people might not realize that they are doing anything wrong in the beginning. Their addiction influences their actions, and we all know that such kinds of people spiral downwards, lose money and their homes, cause their family members to worry (dukkha) and cry. So this is Mistery or "Hell." It takes a lot of psychological counciling to to Awaken such people to have them realize that their thoughts, emotions, and actions are in fact self destructive and reeks havoc in their loved once lives and their own. So this is kinda like what one learns to realize in the apayabhumis.

In the same sense, it is a fallacy to believe that if I spend my life collecting good karma that I will be reborn in the next life a movie star or billionaire. Instead, what thoughts, emotions, state of mind I have developed... will place me in a different place in the Bhavachakka depending on each realms specific "requirements." So in this context, I could be reborn in say... Yama-bhumi (abode of the Devaraja Yama) which is 2 levels beyond our mortal universe.

In the same instance, if I being in Yamabhumi, or another beings such as a devatta cultivates earthly or earthlike thoughts, emotions, and actions in what "higher" plane we are at, we will find ourselves being "reborn" back in this human realm.

So in regards to devattas (gods) in Buddhist mythos, they are NOT things to admire or worship because not only are they subject to samsara like humans, but... as many of the stories we here of gods like Indra, Vishnu, and Shiva, they don't make make good role models in Buddhism because they have human emotions, act out human acts, cause wars, kill, and commit other questionable acts which perhaps might not be the best for humans to emulate

When we (Buddhism) talk about gods and such we cannot take such gods when mentioned out of their contextual matrix, because usually when the Buddha or one of his disciples speaks of such gods and entities, it is used as a method of teaching in the form of using examples to paint a picture.

So I am sure that somewhere in the 25,000 pages of the Tipitikas there is mention of gods like Brahma, Indra, and demons like Mara and such; but you can't take such memes out side their memetic matrix... out side the books and surrounding contextual stories they were found in and say - "Ooh look Buddha mentions Brahma, he must exist, therefore it's cool to worship him."

Most often, as with the demons, such as Mara, the stories and the character of Mara are "exoteric" stories which teachings simple "esoteric" teachings. Or in other words, Mara symbolizes or represents something and is not an actual living entity. You can't interpret such symbols literally... especially if you are enlightened or on a path to enlightenment.

At least this is how I was taught. I never or almost never hear or encounter talks and discourses of gods and demons. Those times when my elders do share stories which include characters of gods and demons and such, these stories are always followed by the elder bhikkhu or bhikkuni interpreting the story for me or asking me to try to interpret the story myself; so that I gain and understanding that what gods and demons I did hear of are just characters and symbols, and not real entities.

As for the devattas in the other places in Bhavachakka, their is nothing special about them that they would warrant worship because like humans, they are working to liberate themselves from samsara. To worship them would be like following and worshiping any old other person... it does no good. Because worship of deities in Theravada Buddhism at least (as I have been taught and raised) misdirects one's Mind, one's Mindfulness, or one's Awareness from Sila, Samadhi, and Pan~n~a, vibhajjavada, and vipassana, which are essential to a Buddhist for enlightenment and liberation, and instead fixates the mind of the Ariya onto gods, which in Theravada are illusions or leads into illusions. The fixation on gods, leads the Mind deeper into the illusion of rites, and rituals... magic stuff... and all that jazz, which causes more suffering than liberation.

I know there are some theists who will be offended by me saying that belief and worship of gods is an illusion which causes or contributes to human suffering, which I don't mean to do.

But the belief in god, and Jesus, and the rites and rituals of the church such as mass, caused a great deal of death and human suffering in the dark ages of Europe. During certain periods of history in india, to certain whole populations of people, the belief in gods, their priests (Brahmans), their rites, and rituals, and the accompanying belief in caste systems caused a lot of suffering and indignation in untouchables.

Religion has its pros and cons. On the one hand most time tested religions teach humans how to be generally good people who do not go out of their way to kill or harm their fellow creature... but on the other hand, it kills unbelievers, causes believers to suffer in life.

Thus from a Theravada perspective, gods and religion... the Desire for gods and the Desire to follow gods and the Desire for such religious trappings... like any Desire leads to human suffering, and therefore the Theravadin must strive in Mind to transcend such Desires and distractions.

 

[Satsangi]

The above Theravada explanationis actually much like that found in Hinduism. All the realms that have been mentiones are mentioned as 14 major lokas in Hinduism. The whole Brahmanda undergoes disslolution in Prakrut Pralaya and hence, the demi Gods also have a life span although a huge life span. But, now is where the Hinduism- at least some schools differ. The Ultimate God is a divine form and that divine form God, His abode of BrahmaJyoti and the Muktas who have reached that divine abode are above the Maya (loosey Bhavachakka as above) and are the same even in Atyantik Pralaya- where all the Brahmandas undergo dissolution into the Mahamaya which in turn dissolutes in the BrahmaJyoti.

Regards,

 

[bp789]

Atheism is a disbelief in afterlife...Buddhism does not deny rebirth.There is no religion without afterlife(but there can be religion without god) .Regarding whether Buddhism denies god...we have to find this meaning of the word "god" .

Just to clarify, atheism is merely a disbelief in God/deities. It is still possible for atheists to believe in an afterlife, ghosts, or reincarnation.