Heracles

[Whiterain]

Discuss

 

[StarryNightshade]

Is that Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson? If so, I'll watch it just for him.

 

[Whiterain]

He is a champion. These cultural heroes have been demonized and their glory relived and almost restored to its former state. That is not mention all the heart break associated with the vilification of their reputations. The Gods and heroes of legend should be handle with extreme care and not with franchise in mind but tribute and honor, which is not the case.

I desired the role of a tribute be more authentic even though Mr.Johnson is a champion. It is a honor to portray such a legend, let a lone a God, it is not handled appropriately.

I'm not over thinking it. Alcaeus. The first Spartan.

 

[Quintessence]

I think the male in the picture is very unattractive.

[sarcasm]Looking forward to another modern butchering of classical mythology that horribly disrespects the gods, though.[/sarcasm]

 

[Caladan]

Have you ever read ancient Greek literature? Homer butchered the gods thousands of years ago in a mocking parody of all that is sacred to the enjoyment and amusement of the Greek aristocracy.

 

[Quintessence]

I can't say I've ever heard someone claim Homer's epics are a "parody." And none of it that I've read strikes me to be of that ilk whatsoever.

 

[Caladan]

I can't say I've ever heard someone claim Homer's epics are a "parody." And none of it that I've read strikes me to be of that ilk whatsoever.

Read my post again, if you ever read Homer's Iliad you will know what I am talking about.

 

[Poeticus]

Let's be honest, folks:

This has to do with Dwayne not being "White" or "Greek" enough, correct? I think that might be the indirect and hidden objection of the OP.

I see Dwayne as a perfect Heracles. Hell, he could also play the awesome role of the fearsome Bhimsen!!! If there is a movie on the Mahabharata, Dwayne better play the role of Bhimsen (Bhima).

 

[Poeticus]

Have you ever read ancient Greek literature? Homer butchered the gods thousands of years ago in a mocking parody of all that is sacred to the enjoyment and amusement of the Greek aristocracy.

That's subjective to one's opinion, Caladan. I have Fagles' world-reknowned translation here, right in front of me. Homer's "Poem About Illium" did not "butcher" the Hellenic Gods; neither is it mentioned by Fagles that it was a parody for the Greek aristocracy. In fact, on page 5, Bernard Knox's "Introduction and Notes" in Fagles translation ensures the readers that who we now know as "Homer" was a "poet known to later ages" by that name "whose life and activity no trustworthy information has come down to us"..."all we have is the tradition, what the Greeks of historical times believed they knew about" a man named "Homer" (Bernard, Fagles, p. 7). Furthermore, there are many claims regarding the "composition" of the "Poem about Illium"; no one is sure regarding if the later mode of writing even existed during the exclaimed War On Troy, and I am sure, you, an archaeologist, can even agree with that. Therefore, the subject of Homer parodying may be an invention of later additions by writers other than the man identified by others as Homer.

Fagles, R. (1998). The Illiad. New York, NY: Penguin Books.

 

[Caladan]

That's subjective to one's opinion, Caladan

No it is not. One of the basic things they teach students of Greek literature in Classical departments in universities around the world when they cover the Iliad is the way the Olympian gods are parodied in comic relief from the serious and dramatic battle and political scenes.
The Iliad itself is not a parody book. It is heavy literature, but the gods... the gods ARE the comic relief from the heavy events and language of the book.

 

[Poeticus]

No it is not. One of the basic things they teach students of Greek literature in Classical departments in universities around the world when they cover the Iliad is the way the Olympian gods are parodied in comic relief from the serious and dramatic battle and political scenes.
The Iliad itself is not a parody book. It is heavy literature, but the gods... the gods ARE the comic relief from the heavy events and language of the book.

I have taken at the most about three courses regarding Ancient and Classical Greece at University. Nowhere was it mentioned about the Helleno-Olympian Gods being parodied in the initial manner you stated, about them being "butchered". However, it is a perspective one can take. You literally said that Homer "butchered" the (Hellenic) Gods, and that, along with it being a parody for the Greek aristocracy, were pretty much the things that I was contesting using Fagles' translation and Knox's "Intro & Notes". Furthermore, in the same courses, it was repeatedly stated that the final form of the Illiad was a later invention, and we are not sure at all about the original copy which was initially transmitted orally and what its contents purely were. Thus, I doubt the whole notion of Homer butchering the Hellenic Gods from the get go.

 

[Caladan]

I have taken at the most about three courses regarding Ancient and Classical Greece at University. Nowhere was it mentioned about the Helleno-Olympian Gods being parodied in the initial manner you stated

At what length of these three courses did you cover the Iliad?

about them being "butchered". However, it is a perspective one can take. You literally said that Homer "butchered" the (Hellenic) Gods, and that, along with it being a parody for the Greek aristocracy, were pretty much the things that I was contesting using Fagles' translation and Knox's "Intro & Notes". Furthermore, in the same courses, it was repeatedly stated that the final form of the Illiad was a later invention, and we are not sure at all about the original copy which was initially transmitted orally and what its contents purely were. Thus, I doubt the whole notion of Homer butchering the Hellenic Gods from the get go.

I am not discussing the oral or literary transmission of the Iliad. Homer could be a pseudonym for all purposes.

 

[Poeticus]

At what length of these three courses did you cover the Iliad?

One to two months.

I am not discussing the oral or literary transmission of the Iliad. Homer could be a pseudonym for all purposes.

This is all that I could find which backed up what you were initially saying:

http://iliadproject.wikispaces.com/Homer's+Portrayal+of+the+Greek+Gods

However, this has nothing to do with the OP so I shall desist and digress.

 

[Caladan]

However, this has nothing to do with the OP so I shall desist and digress.

Really? I do believe it has plenty. The OP is a rant about the so called mockery the film industry makes out of Greek mythology. I personally find it a display of ignorance and rather hypocritical as well, considering how one of the most celebrated Greek writer presented the gods and some of the heroes of the Classical world.
Since you said you claimed to have found one sources about what I am talking about here, I suggest look more carefully, because I have found several only on the first page of google search results:

The Iliad - Homer - Ancient Greece - Classical Literature

http://www.nhinet.org/bell20-1.pdf

Homer's portrayal of gods in 'The Iliad' -- 14yo's paper - High School Writing Workshop - The Well-Trained Mind Community

SparkNotes: The Iliad: Book 1

Literary Articles: Homer's Sense of Humor in 'The Iliad'

Gods in The Iliad - Everything2.com

Hmm.. you know what? It appears that all the links on the first page of google search discuss Homer's depiction of the gods as comic relief, as petty, as bickering, and as a source of laughter. I guess you should have listened more carefully during those wasted two months of academic studies.

And of course I'll end with echoing Erasmus famous words: "if anyone examines more closely the lives of those sober gods in Homer . . . he will find them all full of folly"

 

[LuisDantas]

No it is not. One of the basic things they teach students of Greek literature in Classical departments in universities around the world when they cover the Iliad is the way the Olympian gods are parodied in comic relief from the serious and dramatic battle and political scenes.
The Iliad itself is not a parody book. It is heavy literature, but the gods... the gods ARE the comic relief from the heavy events and language of the book.

So that is not an orthodox take on the Greek gods? I always assumed that they are meant to be taken as such.

 

[Poeticus]

Really? I do believe it has plenty. The OP is a rant about the so called mockery the film industry makes out of Greek mythology.

I believe the OP is more upset that it has a non-White and a non-Greek portraying a Greek God/Hero, however I could be wrong. See my first posting on this thread...but, I wouldn't call his protest a rant since it wasn't lengthy. Displeasured, sure. Rant? Nah.

I guess you should have listened more carefully during those wasted two months of academic studies.

I must have listened carefully since I passed with 90s and 85s . However, they weren't related to my major at University, and hence, those grades were wonderful additions to my section of Electives. Thanks for the links, though.

 

[Caladan]

So that is not an orthodox take on the Greek gods? I always assumed that they are meant to be taken as such.

Careful luis, you might get burned at the stake by some of our local reconstructionists

I believe the OP is more upset that it has a non-White and a non-Greek portraying a Greek God/Hero, however I could be wrong. See my first posting on this thread...but, I wouldn't call his protest a rant since it wasn't lengthy. Displeasured, sure. Rant? Nah.

LOL. You went miles a head from my modest analysis.

I must have listened carefully since I passed with 90s and 85s . However, they weren't related to my major at University, and hence, those grades were wonderful additions to my section of Electives. Thanks for the links, though.

You must warn me about which Classical faculty you took your course

 

[Poeticus]

You must warn me about which Classical faculty you took your course

Caladan Classical Studies Program

 

[LuisDantas]

Careful luis, you might get burned at the stake by some of our local reconstructionists

I suppose. There is such a long line for them to enter, though, that I might as well ask that.

In any case, let's remind ourselves that this is the culture of the mythical heroes that had to pay a severe price for their hubris of being Better Than Others. It always seemed natural for me that the Gods themselves, always remarkably humanlike in their flaws, would be respected for their power, not their attitude.

 

[Caladan]

Don't even get me started about the heroes. If TDz86 is offended by the way modern film depicts Heracles, then he should never read how Homer depicted Achilles in the Trojan war, in what is perhaps the most celebrated Greek piece on these events.