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Here we are 1984, in 2020

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
Of all things...

There is an abundance of things to pick at society's leanings towards 1984, and this article picks masks and protests? I don't recall protests or PPE being a large part of 1984(honestly, I don't recall it being in there at all, but its been a year or two since last reading).

No comparisons of the telescreens and smartphones? No talk of getting the public enthused over Eurasia and Eastasia, and us always having been at war with them? What about correcting people's thoughts and memories...

Well, now I am an easy going person, but I have to say I am bitterly disappointed by this misleading post title!
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Of all things...

There is an abundance of things to pick at society's leanings towards 1984, and this article picks masks and protests? I don't recall protests or PPE being a large part of 1984(honestly, I don't recall it being in there at all, but its been a year or two since last reading).

No comparisons of the telescreens and smartphones? No talk of getting the public enthused over Eurasia and Eastasia, and us always having been at war with them? What about correcting people's thoughts and memories...

Well, now I am an easy going person, but I have to say I am bitterly disappointed by this misleading post title!
@InChrist has form as a Covid 19 conspiracy theorist, I'm afraid. :rolleyes:

Everyone Will Be Tracked

Here we go into the New World...

Last Days Events

There seems to be an overall theme, incorporating, in various ways, the "New World Order", Bill Gates, vaccination and the "End Times".
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Violence happens where democratic leaders allow the violence to happen.
Repeating the same partisan lie does not miraculously make it a truth.

To excuse violent protests because 93% of protests are non-violent is irresponsible.
What's "irresponsible' is your use of stereotyping.

As Gandhi is my main mentor, I certainly do not subscribe to violence used by any person or group except in last-recourse self-defense. I oppose any person or group that stereotypes others as you have done, therefore blame must be placed where it belongs, and Biden, Harris, and many other Dems have spoken out against it regardless of the pathetic lie you're propagating. Have you no shame?
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
@InChrist has form as a Covid 19 conspiracy theorist, I'm afraid. :rolleyes:

Everyone Will Be Tracked

Here we go into the New World...

Last Days Events

There seems to be an overall theme, incorporating, in various ways, the "New World Order", Bill Gates, vaccination and the "End Times".

Yes, I can see that...

I don't know a whole lot about forming conspiracy theories, but I think if one were to want to attempt to do so, they should at least choose to link it to a book that...oh, I don't know, actually has elements of the conspiracy they're trying to create? We have terrible mislabeling going on here.

I think I am a little let down, because I was hoping to discuss the book, and I'd never come across a discussion of it before. Conspiracy theories... well, they're a dime a dozen.

The biggest thing I don't get with conspiracy theorists is the sense of self importance. Lets say, lets just pretend for a moment, one or the other was true. What in the world makes the individual theorists think that they, and online to boot(because that's always the platform), are going to stop some mastermind plan that's been put together over decades(if not centuries), by some of the world's most influential people?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That describes Trump and the oligarchy of the right that is basically ruling the US, They lie and complain the left is lying. They act like tyrants and accuse the left of wanting tyranny. They embrace darkness and complain about others promoting darkness. They embrace mammon and complain about others.
Dems are the Olagarchy as well. Need to stop drinking kool-aid thinking they are for you.

They're not.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Yes, I can see that...

I don't know a whole lot about forming conspiracy theories, but I think if one were to want to attempt to do so, they should at least choose to link it to a book that...oh, I don't know, actually has elements of the conspiracy they're trying to create? We have terrible mislabeling going on here.

I think I am a little let down, because I was hoping to discuss the book, and I'd never come across a discussion of it before. Conspiracy theories... well, they're a dime a dozen.

The biggest thing I don't get with conspiracy theorists is the sense of self importance. Lets say, lets just pretend for a moment, one or the other was true. What in the world makes the individual theorists think that they, and online to boot(because that's always the platform), are going to stop some mastermind plan that's been put together over decades(if not centuries), by some of the world's most influential people?
Well we can always discuss the book if you like, though it's years since I read it. I'll never forget the classic opening though: "It was a bright cold day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen." ;)
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
Well we can always discuss the book if you like, though it's years since I read it. I'll never forget the classic opening though: "It was a bright cold day in April and the clocks were striking thirteen." ;)

I thought about opening a thread for it...

Its been a year or two since I've read it as well. I think last time I finished it, I went to the gas station, and found they had stuck a TV screen to all the gas pumps... Kinda screwed with my head!

I think the line that stuck out for me, and I don't know why, was O Brien saying he could float right off the floor like a soap bubble if the Party wanted it(but they didn't, so he didn't).
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I thought about opening a thread for it...

Its been a year or two since I've read it as well. I think last time I finished it, I went to the gas station, and found they had stuck a TV screen to all the gas pumps... Kinda screwed with my head!

I think the line that stuck out for me, and I don't know why, was O Brien saying he could float right off the floor like a soap bubble if the Party wanted it(but they didn't, so he didn't).
Yeah, telescreens.

Haha, I remember the TV screens on the gas pumps. It cropped up when I was working for Shell in Houston. At the time the US brand positioning was "quick and hassle-free". I pointed out that advertising to people when they were trapped, stuck at the pump filling up, was the epitome of hassle. So it didn't get adopted at that time. But times change.....

I was struck by the memory hole:- the "alternative fact" idea you could change history by sheer force of eliminating all references to the previous version, effectively "gaslighting" the citizens, so they no longer trusted their own memories. This must ring bells in Trump's USA, where I gather sales of 1984 have soared.

And the surveillance. We have that now, too. There are cameras everywhere in the UK, "for our own good", plus of course the commercial robot surveillance of our internet use.

Xi is pioneering a new hi-tech totalitarianism, based on cult of personality, in China. He'll be working on making people love Big Brother, while he herds more people into concentration camps.

Many warning signs, in different places.
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
Yeah, telescreens.

Haha, I remember the TV screens on the gas pumps. It cropped up when I was working for Shell in Houston. At the time the US brand positioning was "quick and hassle-free". I pointed out that advertising to people when they were trapped, stuck at the pump filling up, was the epitome of hassle. So it didn't get adopted at that time. But times change.....

I was struck by the memory hole:- the "alternative fact" idea you could change history by sheer force of eliminating all references to the previous version, effectively "gaslighting" the citizens, so they no longer trusted their own memories. This must ring bells in Trump's USA, where I gather sales of 1984 have soared.

And the surveillance. We have that now, too. There are cameras everywhere in the UK, "for our own good", plus of course the commercial robot surveillance of our internet use.

Xi is pioneering a new hi-tech totalitarianism, based on cult of personality, in China. He'll be working on making people love Big Brother, while he herds more people into concentration camps.

Many warning signs, in different places.

The gas station telescreens here tend to advertise for products you have to go into the store to get, even offering to print coupons if you want. I do appreciate the mute button.

I think the 'alternative facts' thing was going on long before Trump(and heightened with social media), but the biggest thing was Trump made it okay. "The President's doing it, so it must be true/okay/acceptable". It seemed with the onset of social media, you were able to form groups, and communicate only with those groups, about how 'it really happened'.

Surveillance is everywhere, but serious and pointless. What gets me is so many people worry about 'the government watching them/monitoring them', but those same people go and voluntarily put all their information online... In this day and age, its hard to keep banking information from being online, but I remember being required to give an email address at a local store to buy a shirt. No email, no shirt. Really?

I am totally unfamiliar with the situation you mention in China. Care to share further?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
The gas station telescreens here tend to advertise for products you have to go into the store to get, even offering to print coupons if you want. I do appreciate the mute button.

I think the 'alternative facts' thing was going on long before Trump(and heightened with social media), but the biggest thing was Trump made it okay. "The President's doing it, so it must be true/okay/acceptable". It seemed with the onset of social media, you were able to form groups, and communicate only with those groups, about how 'it really happened'.

Surveillance is everywhere, but serious and pointless. What gets me is so many people worry about 'the government watching them/monitoring them', but those same people go and voluntarily put all their information online... In this day and age, its hard to keep banking information from being online, but I remember being required to give an email address at a local store to buy a shirt. No email, no shirt. Really?

I am totally unfamiliar with the situation you mention in China. Care to share further?
Xi has imprisoned a million Uigurs in concentrations camps for "re-education", because they are muslim. He has a system by which people earn points for good citizenship: China has started ranking citizens with a creepy 'social credit' system — here's what you can do wrong, and the embarrassing, demeaning ways they can punish you which can be used to determine if you can get a job etc. He has now issued books of "thoughts" like Mao's Little Red Book, which people are encouraged to reference in their work and speech, no doubt earning points. Internet traffic in China is very heavily monitored and disruptive people find themselves charged with vague offences and can disappear.

He's just starting, but it has all the signs of a new, IT-enabled totalitarianism. Xi has of course altered the system so that he can remain in charge for life.
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
Xi has imprisoned a million Uigurs in concentrations camps for "re-education", because they are muslim. He has a system by which people earn points for good citizenship: China has started ranking citizens with a creepy 'social credit' system — here's what you can do wrong, and the embarrassing, demeaning ways they can punish you which can be used to determine if you can get a job etc. He has now issued books of "thoughts" like Mao's Little Red Book, which people are encouraged to reference in their work and speech, no doubt earning points. Internet traffic in China is very heavily monitored and disruptive people find themselves charged with vague offences and can disappear.

He's just starting, but it has all the signs of a new, IT-enabled totalitarianism. Xi has of course altered the system so that he can remain in charge for life.

I had heard of offenses against the Uigurs, which is horrible, of course. Had to make a point to refamiliarize myself with that situation... Such a horrendous humans rights situation. What can be done? Doing nothing doesn't seem acceptable...

I hadn't heard of any of these social tracking systems yet....that's is... I can't even imagine. Being denied a job because you played too many video games last week? Can't ride a train because you were caught smoking in the wrong spot? Enforced(or might as well be) reading? Very Orwellian indeed...
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I had heard of offenses against the Uigurs, which is horrible, of course. Had to make a point to refamiliarize myself with that situation... Such a horrendous humans rights situation. What can be done? Doing nothing doesn't seem acceptable...

I hadn't heard of any of these social tracking systems yet....that's is... I can't even imagine. Being denied a job because you played too many video games last week? Can't ride a train because you were caught smoking in the wrong spot? Enforced(or might as well be) reading? Very Orwellian indeed...
Here's a link to Xi Jinping Thought and how it is being used: ‘Xi Thought’ Is Creeping Into Everything From Chinese Sci-Fi to Company Filings

My favourite bit is this:
"The China Meteorological Administration was found in August to have some gaps to bridge in applying Xi’s idea of domestic and international situations into their work while the China Earthquake Administration got rapped for not fully reflecting Xi’s Thought into their disaster prevention work. Writers and producers in the nation’s burgeoning science fiction scene were urged by an official industry association to take Xi Thought on board and transform China into a sci-fi powerhouse."

So even in science, organisations are expected to show the "wisdom" of Xi in their work.:confused:

This is pure Mao, but enforced with c.21st IT surveillance. China could be beginning a descent into an Orwellian hellhole.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
And where Republicans are in control.
This story of it basically being a Democrat thing is a fantasy. It isn't real.


It's not excusing it. People have to keep pointing out the violence was not a significant part of the protests because RW propaganda spun it by hyper focusing on the rioting as if that was basically all that was going on and over exaggerating damages and how bad things actually got.
I guess they’re not rioting in Penn, right?
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Repeating the same partisan lie does not miraculously make it a truth.

What's "irresponsible' is your use of stereotyping.

As Gandhi is my main mentor, I certainly do not subscribe to violence used by any person or group except in last-recourse self-defense. I oppose any person or group that stereotypes others as you have done, therefore blame must be placed where it belongs, and Biden, Harris, and many other Dems have spoken out against it regardless of the pathetic lie you're propagating. Have you no shame?
I haven’t stereotyped anything. The 93% comes directly from the person I was responding too. Nice try, Ghandi.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
That describes Trump and the oligarchy of the right that is basically ruling the US, They lie and complain the left is lying. They act like tyrants and accuse the left of wanting tyranny. They embrace darkness and complain about others promoting darkness. They embrace mammon and complain about others.
That’s not how I see the situation. It’s the left who are tyrants who embrace political correctness and if someone says or thinks otherwise, they are cancelled, there business, family or life may even be targeted. Such hypocrisy and doublespeak from the (in) tolerant left.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
It’s the left who are tyrants who embrace political correctness
I'm Far Left, and legions of RW Conservatives are way more PC than I am. Except they don't use those terms, they use religious terms such as "teaches witchcraft" to try to get Harry Potter banned.
Such hypocrisy and doublespeak from the (in) tolerant left.
So, since the Left is a monolithic group, can I call you extremely intolerant and hateful given the Nazis are RW?
 

InChrist

Free4ever
In all honesty, while taking a radical conspiratorial view might be appealing and easy, in reality I see a world full of spoilt and selfish people who are too up their own backsides, alongside people trying to cause chaos through the way that paranoid theories have on people's minds (take Qanon as an example of the way it enforces nationalism, white supremacy and antisemitism - as a very mainstream example).

The world is too USA-centered too which is a problem because everyone takes on america's problems as their own.
If you're an american from america though, then this doesn't apply to you, in that case you should be sorting your crap out and leaving everyone else alone for once.
Well, President Trump is trying to do just that; get Americans to mind their own business. He is the first president in many years that hadn’t gotten the U.S involved in a war somewhere. He’s been bringing troops out of other countries. He wants US companies and manufacturing back in the U.S. instead of China.
The establishment, globalist Democrats and Republicans ( and media) don’t like it.
 
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