here we go again

[sojourner]

Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God." (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.........................so the word was not God as some translations have put over , but the word is a god, or devine like , or like God even. and the bible does tell us that Jesus is the image of God so he is like God . which brings to mind that the name micheal means
(Mi´cha·el) [Who Is Like God?]. and the scriptures do seem to indicate that this michael in revelation 12;7 is Jesus christ as a warrior king .it all fits into place as far as i can see.
Scriptural evidence indicates that the name Michael applied to God’s Son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ and also after his return.

The Bible also tells us in Gen. 2 that, since we have gained wisdom and discernment of good and evil, we have become like God (and...we are created in God's image.) Therefore, using your definition, why aren't we the Word?

 

[may]

And yet for 1800+ years nobody noticed this apparently clear teaching of Scripture. Why do you think that is, May? How do you account for absolutely nobody (so far as I'm aware), even the Arians who shared your belief as to the Word being a created god, identifying Christ as the Archangel Michael prior to your group's doing so?

James

many things are being revealed in this time of the end , especially regarding the book of revelation , And it is being revealed to his faithful slaves only , as daniel 12;4 says
And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant."....... many faithful ones have roved around the bible and now because of there faithfulness many things are being revealed to them . the book of revelation will only be revealed to one channel . and it is to his slaves. as revelation 1;1 says
A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John, ....................... we are now living in the Lords day , the Lords day started when Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly goverment Daniel 2;44 daniel 7;13-14 and according to bible prophecy and chronology Jesus recieved his kingship in 1914 and many things have happened to Gods people in line with the book of revelation since that time .

 

[sojourner]

many things are being revealed in this time of the end , especially regarding the book of revelation , And it is being revealed to his faithful slaves only , as daniel 12;4 says
And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant."....... many faithful ones have roved around the bible and now because of there faithfulness many things are being revealed to them . the book of revelation will only be revealed to one channel . and it is to his slaves. as revelation 1;1 says
A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John, ....................... we are now living in the Lords day , the Lords day started when Jesus was made king of Gods heavenly goverment Daniel 2;44 daniel 7;13-14 and according to bible prophecy and chronology Jesus recieved his kingship in 1914 and many things have happened to Gods people in line with the book of revelation since that time .

Who are these "slaves?" Are they not them that now (and have always) comprise the Church -- the Body of Christ?

 

[may]

Who are these "slaves?" Are they not them that now (and have always) comprise the Church -- the Body of Christ?

faithful ones at that matthew 24;45-47
Since Israel was God’s "servant" centuries ago, was it also the slave that Jesus spoke about? No, for ancient Israel sadly turned out to be neither faithful nor discreet.
Indeed, Israel climaxed a long history of rebellion by rejecting Jesus, at which point Jehovah rejected them.—Matthew 21:42, 43.
At Pentecost 33 C.E.
a new nation, a spiritual nation, became the "servant" that would declare Jehovah’s glory to the nations and supply food at the proper time. (1 Peter 2:9) Fittingly, it came to be called "the Israel of God."—Galatians 6:16.
What about today? When Jesus’ presence began in 1914, did he find a group of anointed Christians who were faithfully dispensing food at the proper time? He certainly did. This group could be clearly identified because of the fine fruitage that it was producing. (Matthew 7:20) History since then has proved this identification to be correct. i know some might think the catholic church is the slave class but they have been unfaithful they have taken on manmade doctrines and they did not keep awake to bible prophecies, Jehovah only blesses faithfulness

 

[sojourner]

faithful ones at that matthew 24;45-47
Since Israel was God’s "servant" centuries ago, was it also the slave that Jesus spoke about? No, for ancient Israel sadly turned out to be neither faithful nor discreet.
Indeed, Israel climaxed a long history of rebellion by rejecting Jesus, at which point Jehovah rejected them.—Matthew 21:42, 43.
At Pentecost 33 C.E.
a new nation, a spiritual nation, became the "servant" that would declare Jehovah’s glory to the nations and supply food at the proper time. (1 Peter 2:9) Fittingly, it came to be called "the Israel of God."—Galatians 6:16.
What about today? When Jesus’ presence began in 1914, did he find a group of anointed Christians who were faithfully dispensing food at the proper time? He certainly did. This group could be clearly identified because of the fine fruitage that it was producing. (Matthew 7:20) History since then has proved this identification to be correct. i know some might think the catholic church is the slave class but they have been unfaithful they have taken on manmade doctrines and they did not keep awake to bible prophecies, Jehovah only blesses faithfulness

Israel is still the household of God...as are we, by adoption.

Your statement:

When Jesus’ presence began in 1914

is not in the Bible. Therefore, it must be a "manmade doctrine."

 

[jonny]

The Word was Christ. That's an easy one.

 

[jonny]

The Word was Christ. That's an easy one.

I think this scripture makes this pretty clear:

1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

 

[may]

Your statement:

is not in the Bible. Therefore, it must be a "manmade doctrine."

keeping awake to bible prophecies in the bible , and bible chronology means that we dont and havent fallen asleep, and blessings come to those who didnt fall asleep , and i would have to disagree with your thoughts on the 1914 date , because it is most certainly a very significant date indeed . its all happening just as the bible foretold. Gods heavenly kingdom goverment is now well established Daniel 2;44 and Jesus is now a reigning king of this heavenly kingdom Daniel 7;13-14 and it all happened at the end of the gentile times ,or the appointed times of the nations, which was 1914. thrilling times indeed we are living in. dont get led along to dismiss this very important date.

 

[may]

Israel is still the household of God...as are we, by adoption.

quote] yes spiritual israel, from all nations

Those who put faith in Jesus’ sacrifice gained forgiveness, and God approved of them as ‘Jews by the spirit,’ who make up a spiritual nation called "the Israel of God."—Galatians 6:16.​

Yes, being accepted into spiritual Israel did not depend upon a certain national or ethnic background. Some, such as Jesus’ apostles, were natural Jews. Others, such as the Roman army officer Cornelius, were uncircumcised Gentiles. (Acts 10:34, 35, 44-48) Paul correctly said regarding spiritual Israel: "There is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, slave, freeman." (Colossians 3:11) Those anointed by God’s spirit became "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession."—1 Peter 2:9; compare Exodus 19:5, 6.

 

[may]

I think this scripture makes this pretty clear:

1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

And in time the frauds were fully exposed. what a disgrace to tamper with the word of God to try and make it fit the trinity teaching .:no:

 

[PureX]

Who​

Was "the Word"?​

what about John 1:1, which says in the King James Version: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"? John 1:14 tells us that "the Word became flesh and resided among us." Christendom claims that this "Word" (Greek, lo´gos) who came to earth as Jesus Christ was God Almighty himself. Yet, notice that even in the King James Version John 1:1 says "the Word was with God." Someone who is with another person is not the same as that other person. So even from this translation, two distinct personalities are shown. Also, no third person of any Trinity is mentioned at all.
As for the King James Version’s saying in the latter part of John 1:1 that the "Word was God," other translations say something different. Some are as follows:
1808: "and the word was a god." The New Testament, in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text, London.
1864: "and a god was the Word." The Emphatic Diaglott, by Benjamin Wilson, New York and London.
1935: "and the Word was divine." The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed, Chicago.
1935: "the Logos was divine." A New Translation of the Bible, by James Moffatt, New York.
1975: "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz, Göttingen, Germany.
1978: "and godlike sort was the Logos." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider, Berlin.
1979: "and a god was the Logos." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Jurgen Becker, Würzburg, Germany.​

Also, in 1950 the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., rendered the phrase, "and the Word was a god."

"Logos" was understood at the time it was used in this text, to be a kind of divine ideal, or divine intellectual blueprint upon which all material reality has been built. Jesus is claimed by Christians to be the human manifestation of this divine blueprint, and so they see Jesus as having existed "from the beginning" even though he did not exist in human form and on Earth from the beginning. He existed from the beginning as an expression of that divine ideal, or blueprint. And he becomes our salvation as he is the exemplification of God's love and forgiveness in human form. He is our example, our model, and through him we can transcend our "fallen" selves.

What the original term "logos" did NOT mean or refer to were the actual scriptures, themselves, as so many people wrongly believe, today. The bible is NOT the "word of God", or the divine logos that the scriptures is refers to. It's one of the most grievous and damging mistranslations in all history: the translation from "logos" to "word".

 

[may]

"Logos" was understood at the time it was used in this text, to be a kind of divine ideal, or divine intellectual blueprint upon which all material reality has been built. Jesus is claimed by Christians to be the human manifestation of this divine blueprint, and so they see Jesus as having existed "from the beginning" even though he did not exist in human form and on Earth from the beginning. He existed from the beginning as an expression of that divine ideal, or blueprint. And he becomes our salvation as he is the exemplification of God's love and forgiveness in human form. He is our example, our model, and through him we can transcend our "fallen" selves.

What the original term "logos" did NOT mean or refer to were the actual scriptures, themselves, as so many people wrongly believe, today. The bible is NOT the "word of God", or the divine logos that the scriptures is refers to. It's one of the most grievous and damging mistranslations in all history: the translation from "logos" to "word".

Prehuman Existence. The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: "In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo´gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god ["was divine," AT; Mo; or "of divine being," Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God." Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God." (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.

 

[PureX]

Prehuman Existence. The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: "In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo´gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god ["was divine," AT; Mo; or "of divine being," Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God." Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God." (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.

Yes, I think your interpretation is fairly accurate. In those early days, the Christian view of creation was more akin to the gnostics, and the Greeks, and the idea that the material world that we live in is a spontaneous manifestation of a divinely ideal world ("heaven"), which is itself a spontaneous manifestation of God's nature and intent (the logos being this nature and intent as a kind of intellectual blueprint: logos is the divine logic/reason/will out of which all realms of existence spring).

Jesus, then, is the human expression of that divine logic/reason/will. Jesus is the exemplification of God's nature on Earth, and it's through that divine nature that we find our way out of our material selves. It's how we can transcend this "life" into the next realm (Heaven) and in so doing bring Heaven to Earth.

 

[jonny]

And in time the frauds were fully exposed. what a disgrace to tamper with the word of God to try and make it fit the trinity teaching .:no:

Please prove that these scriptures in the Bible are a fraud. While you're at it, please explain why this discussion matters. I still don't know why it matters who or what "the Word" is & I don't see why it is such a big deal if people believe it is Jesus Christ. Does this belief completely rock the foundation of Christianity?

 

[dawny0826]

John 1 ;18 no man has seen God, and john 1 ;14 so the word became flesh , the word is Jesus not God , he was an only-begotten son. translating 1;1 wrongly leads to false thoughts about Jesus. finding out from the bible who Jesus really is, leads to everlasting life John 17;3

Respectfully, I stated that I BELIEVED as I posted. And I do.

We view God differently and we interpret scripture differently.

I know who Jesus Christ is and am at peace with my beliefs. I suspect you are at peace with your own.

 

[sojourner]

keeping awake to bible prophecies in the bible , and bible chronology means that we dont and havent fallen asleep, and blessings come to those who didnt fall asleep , and i would have to disagree with your thoughts on the 1914 date , because it is most certainly a very significant date indeed . its all happening just as the bible foretold. Gods heavenly kingdom goverment is now well established Daniel 2;44 and Jesus is now a reigning king of this heavenly kingdom Daniel 7;13-14 and it all happened at the end of the gentile times ,or the appointed times of the nations, which was 1914. thrilling times indeed we are living in. dont get led along to dismiss this very important date.

I see...if the doctrine is based upon something that is considered to be "prophecy," then the doctrine does not have to be found in the Bible. Interesting proviso.

 

[may]

I see...if the doctrine is based upon something that is considered to be "prophecy," then the doctrine does not have to be found in the Bible. Interesting proviso.

bible prophecy always comes true , the appointed times of the nations ended in 1914 and then the one with the legal right was given the kingship .. bible prophecy always comes true

 

[may]

Please prove that these scriptures in the Bible are a fraud. While you're at it, quote]
For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement. 1 john 5;7-8
After "witness bearers" אABVgSyh,p omit the words added in later Gr. mss and Vgc, namely: "in heaven, the Father, the Word and the holy spirit; and these three are one. (8) And there are three witness bearers on earth.so the correct way is quoted above

 

[may]

Yes, I think your interpretation is fairly accurate. quote] accurate understanding leads to greater accurate knowledge about who God is ,and who the word is.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The Word was Jehovah.

Now the question is who was Jehovah with.... "the Word was with God", if the Word is Jehovah, then who is referred to as God in this context?

PS - I don't mean to redirect your thread, I'm just curious.

The word Jehovah is not mentioned there. it may be some ones's translation of the different word. I can see if the LDS translated

as (YHWH) If you wanted to pronounce it then maybe it would sound like Yehweh or (Yehuwa).

But I assume the word in the new testament for God in the greek language is Theos. So how do we translate Theos as JehovaH? What language does this word come from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah#The_J_in_Jehovah
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