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Hey Socialist liberals...want 'immigrants'? Ya got em!

Audie

Veteran Member
Thats not the figure you have previously. Was that a false statement?

Census.gov gives 5.2 million native americans and the population of america at 327.2 million

Come on Christine! By this figuring, the first person
to step across t he international dateline heading east
became a native american as of that instant.

In a million years, a blonde whose ancestors came from Norway will never be a native.

Maybe the problem is with terminology.

As nations of immigrants, France and England should
should look into sending cruise ships to pick up
migrants, if the USA does not want them?
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Yes, so what happened before it was made illegal

And why accept european migrants but bar south american migrants.

There were many differences. One main difference was the Europeans had to cross an ocean. This meant their move to the US was a more permanent decision. This decision required the will to adapt and the need to assimilate. Most of the Europeans came over before the welfare state, which meant they understood they had to sink or swim. They did not have the option to recline in a social hammock.

Many, but not all Central American immigrants, come here for jobs, for free education and for free medical care. Those who work, still send money back to their native counties, and save for their retirement, in their cheaper countries of origin. America is a stop over place. This was not an option for the Europeans, until the welfare state was established.

The modern welfare state lure is why Trump wants only immigrants who can contribute; net give, instead of net take. This is more in line with the practical constraints of European immigration.

One way to do this is to stop welfare and all freebies for illegal immigrants. This will change the lure dynamics. The self reliant, who know they will need to work and net contribute, will still come. The first test of self reliance is the ability to do it by the book, instead as a thief in the night.

Current estimates are that the cost of illegal immigration is about $125 Billion per year. This covers everything from welfare, free education (local taxes) and free medical care. This a huge freebie lure that draws not only the poor, but also the con artists and criminals. Sanctuary cities will protect criminals since they are all blended with the poor and needy.

Trump wants to build the wall, which is a one time cost of about $25 billion with a $5 billion annual cost. This saves over $100 billion the first year, and then forever, yet politicians from both sides, complain. The question becomes, how much of this extra $100 billion in welfare cost is skimmed, as a campaign kick back to these politicians? All the middle men benefit, and they are all beholden to the makers of laws. If you run a shuttle service company for illegals, that the state pays, this makes you money. Which palm do you grease?

For example, free education for illegals is very expensive. The estimate is about $45 Billon. Although this is expensive to the tax payer, it benefits the teacher's unions. Having to teach all extra subjects, in fives or more languages, creates lot of new jobs for teachers and/or can be used in collective bargaining for a pay raise. How much of a kickback is this worth from the unions? Is it 1% or 5%. And who makes the most from this kickback? Why would they want to change anything? Why not expand it?

How about businesses, that use illegal immigrants for labor, but do not pay any formal benefits. The illegal immigrants will still get benefit from their state and the federal government, to the tune of $125 billion per year. In essence, the tax payer pays the labor benefits for these businesses. How much of a kickback is this worth?

The swamp is ripping off the country using illegals as pawns. Maybe we need to prohibit any politician from receiving campaign contributions, from anyone who is a middle man, for any goods and services, paid for by the tax payers, to illegal aliens. Without the skim, the hypocrites will change the system.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
There were many differences. One main difference was the Europeans had to cross an ocean. This meant their move to the US was a more permanent decision. This decision required the will to adapt and the need to assimilate. Most of the Europeans came over before the welfare state, which meant they understood they had to sink or swim. They did not have the option to recline in a social hammock.

Many, but not all Central American immigrants, come here for jobs, for free education and for free medical care. Those who work, still send money back to their native counties, and save for their retirement, in their cheaper countries of origin. America is a stop over place. This was not an option for the Europeans, until the welfare state was established.

The modern welfare state lure is why Trump wants only immigrants who can contribute; net give, instead of net take. This is more in line with the practical constraints of European immigration.

One way to do this is to stop welfare and all freebies for illegal immigrants. This will change the lure dynamics. The self reliant, who know they will need to work and net contribute, will still come. The first test of self reliance is the ability to do it by the book, instead as a thief in the night.

Current estimates are that the cost of illegal immigration is about $125 Billion per year. This covers everything from welfare, free education (local taxes) and free medical care. This a huge freebie lure that draws not only the poor, but also the con artists and criminals. Sanctuary cities will protect criminals since they are all blended with the poor and needy.

Trump wants to build the wall, which is a one time cost of about $25 billion with a $5 billion annual cost. This saves over $100 billion the first year, and then forever, yet politicians from both sides, complain. The question becomes, how much of this extra $100 billion in welfare cost is skimmed, as a campaign kick back to these politicians? All the middle men benefit, and they are all beholden to the makers of laws. If you run a shuttle service company for illegals, that the state pays, this makes you money. Which palm do you grease?

For example, free education for illegals is very expensive. The estimate is about $45 Billon. Although this is expensive to the tax payer, it benefits the teacher's unions. Having to teach all extra subjects, in fives or more languages, creates lot of new jobs for teachers and/or can be used in collective bargaining for a pay raise. How much of a kickback is this worth from the unions? Is it 1% or 5%. And who makes the most from this kickback? Why would they want to change anything? Why not expand it?

How about businesses, that use illegal immigrants for labor, but do not pay any formal benefits. The illegal immigrants will still get benefit from their state and the federal government, to the tune of $125 billion per year. In essence, the tax payer pays the labor benefits for these businesses. How much of a kickback is this worth?

The swamp is ripping off the country using illegals as pawns. Maybe we need to prohibit any politician from receiving campaign contributions, from anyone who is a middle man, for any goods and services, paid for by the tax payers, to illegal aliens. Without the skim, the hypocrites will change the system.

You are over describing the case.

The simple fact is that circumstances change over time.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I am not off by anything, i have shown you my base figures.

Support, pointing out your figures were false? Does the degree of falseness matter?
How did your base figures support that 98% of those in the US are immigrants?

This should be fun!
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
There were many differences. One main difference was the Europeans had to cross an ocean. This meant their move to the US was a more permanent decision. This decision required the will to adapt and the need to assimilate. Most of the Europeans came over before the welfare state, which meant they understood they had to sink or swim. They did not have the option to recline in a social hammock.

Many, but not all Central American immigrants, come here for jobs, for free education and for free medical care. Those who work, still send money back to their native counties, and save for their retirement, in their cheaper countries of origin. America is a stop over place. This was not an option for the Europeans, until the welfare state was established.

The modern welfare state lure is why Trump wants only immigrants who can contribute; net give, instead of net take. This is more in line with the practical constraints of European immigration.

One way to do this is to stop welfare and all freebies for illegal immigrants. This will change the lure dynamics. The self reliant, who know they will need to work and net contribute, will still come. The first test of self reliance is the ability to do it by the book, instead as a thief in the night.

Current estimates are that the cost of illegal immigration is about $125 Billion per year. This covers everything from welfare, free education (local taxes) and free medical care. This a huge freebie lure that draws not only the poor, but also the con artists and criminals. Sanctuary cities will protect criminals since they are all blended with the poor and needy.

Trump wants to build the wall, which is a one time cost of about $25 billion with a $5 billion annual cost. This saves over $100 billion the first year, and then forever, yet politicians from both sides, complain. The question becomes, how much of this extra $100 billion in welfare cost is skimmed, as a campaign kick back to these politicians? All the middle men benefit, and they are all beholden to the makers of laws. If you run a shuttle service company for illegals, that the state pays, this makes you money. Which palm do you grease?

For example, free education for illegals is very expensive. The estimate is about $45 Billon. Although this is expensive to the tax payer, it benefits the teacher's unions. Having to teach all extra subjects, in fives or more languages, creates lot of new jobs for teachers and/or can be used in collective bargaining for a pay raise. How much of a kickback is this worth from the unions? Is it 1% or 5%. And who makes the most from this kickback? Why would they want to change anything? Why not expand it?

How about businesses, that use illegal immigrants for labor, but do not pay any formal benefits. The illegal immigrants will still get benefit from their state and the federal government, to the tune of $125 billion per year. In essence, the tax payer pays the labor benefits for these businesses. How much of a kickback is this worth?

The swamp is ripping off the country using illegals as pawns. Maybe we need to prohibit any politician from receiving campaign contributions, from anyone who is a middle man, for any goods and services, paid for by the tax payers, to illegal aliens. Without the skim, the hypocrites will change the system.

And without the cheap labour that helps keep costs down, fruit pickers, swimming pools and gardens clean. Work that no self respecting 6th generation american would be seen doing do you think that americans would have the same standard of living?

4 myths about how immigrants affect the U.S. economy
 

We Never Know

No Slack
And without the cheap labour that helps keep costs down, fruit pickers, swimming pools and gardens clean. Work that no self respecting 6th generation american would be seen doing do you think that americans would have the same standard of living?

You are right. The work they do for the pay they get many Americans wouldn't do it. Does it really keep cost down? I don't think it does because when companies here move to another country to make their products much cheaper, it doesn't lower the prices when they ship it back here to be sold.
Those underpaid workers generate more profit for those they work for.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Come on Christine! By this figuring, the first person
to step across t he international dateline heading east
became a native american as of that instant.

In a million years, a blonde whose ancestors came from Norway will never be a native.

Maybe the problem is with terminology.

As nations of immigrants, France and England should
should look into sending cruise ships to pick up
migrants, if the USA does not want them?

We are all of immigrant ancestry.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
You are right. The work they do for the pay they get many Americans wouldn't do it. Does it really keep cost down? I don't think it does because when companies here move to another country to make their products much cheaper, it doesn't lower the prices when they ship it back here to be sold.
Those underpaid workers generate more profit for those they work for.


Since i posted that i have edited to add a link, you may find it interesting.

However, i am a brit, brexit is nigh. Already the health service, fruit and veg farmers, building contractors etc are feeling the pain in a reduction in immigration. The health service is short of staff and hence waiting times increase, yes people are suffering, even dying prematurely because of it. Fresh food prices have increased around 20% in the last few months and are set to increase more. Supermarkets are stockpiling food for the days when home grown food becomes unavailable.

In america maybe the health care wont be effected much by banning immigrants but certainly food and other costs will be effected.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
You are right. The work they do for the pay they get many Americans wouldn't do it. Does it really keep cost down? I don't think it does because when companies here move to another country to make their products much cheaper, it doesn't lower the prices when they ship it back here to be sold.
Those underpaid workers generate more profit for those they work for.

There is a labour shortage in the USA at this time.
And not just for the 'nobody else will do it" jobs.

We also see it in the empty slots for gradstudents
esp in science and engineering. Those are filled
by international students, from India etc.

AND,to make sure the American immigration
system is totally insane. it is difficult for those
students to stay and work in the US when they
get their masters and PhDs!!!


With declining birth rate, and aging population, the
US may find itself competing for immigrants. :D
 

Audie

Veteran Member
i am talking about a country built on immigration.

Oh. That would be all countries then.

But re the USA- as noted previously, the immigration
policies are insane.

Run across the border, no papers, no education, no
skills, no english-you are probably home free.

Try to get in legally? Ha. You try it.

Immigration, as I think all but a very few would
say, is fine. But it should be according to a
legal framework that bears some semblance to
sanity.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
There is a labour shortage in the USA at this time.
And not just for the 'nobody else will do it" jobs.

We also see it in the empty slots for gradstudents
esp in science and engineering. Those are filled
by international students, from India etc.

AND,to make sure the American immigration
system is totally insane. it is difficult for those
students to stay and work in the US when they
get their masters and PhDs!!!


With declining birth rate, and aging population, the
US may find itself competing for immigrants. :D

Many grads can't get jobs in their field of degree.

By comparing this information, researchers found that during those periods, 43 percent of U.S. college and university graduates’ first jobs did not require a bachelor’s degree. The researchers considered a job that does not use a person’s education “underemployment.”

https://learningenglish-voanews-com...lege-graduates-are-underemployed/4543268.html
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Undocumented workers should be greatly welcomed and feel very safe in sanctuary cities; these would be great places for them having to avoid abiding by the law. The state of California ought to treat them so nice, there'd be no other place they'd rather be. ...:)

I think that many of these people feel it is better to be somewhere where they have a chance, or think they have a chance, than it is to be somewhere where they know they don't have a chance. That is the level of desperation they have arrived at. As a fellow human being, I feel for their desperation.

Where they came from the law held them no hope. Here, because we are America, they have hope. That is what America stands for. And if California is the last refuge of America then long live California.

Aren't you worried that busing all of these people to blue states won't spell the final death of xenophobic conservatism in the Republican party?

The more I think about Trump's tweets the more I like the outcomes...a long series of blue waves on a two year cycle.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
For years now the Socialist Democrats have been offering and advertising their cities as Sanctuary cities.

It's pretty clear by now Socialist Democrats never ever mean what they say in the first place, given how they're acting about the real possibility of getting an influx of illegals....er I mean 'immigrants. Not that I ever think they're even capable of fulfilling what they openly say and promise.

If Democrats didn't fulfill what they said or promised then there wouldn't have been so much for our current president to have want to have to tear down that our last president built up.

Looking at the long view our country and the world our country has always led are moving in the direction of compassion for all combined with the freedom to achieve. Socialist Democrat is a label for something you have more in common with than you might want to admit. But is a topic for another thread.

Most labeling or name calling for that matter is done by a person who wants to distance themselves from an idea they fear might have validity in their own psychology.
 
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