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Higher Dimensional Organisms

Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
Just a fun thing to think about:

Supposing there are higher dimensions (beyond time), which is currently supported by a number of theories in physics, then could not organisms have evolved to live "there"?

Second dimensional beings, Flatlanders as they've been called, would move around in their 2D matrix of existence, entirely unaware that they were looping and twisting in the 3rd dimension. Their ability to interact with higher dimensions would be necessarily extremely limited. And 3D objects that passed through their senses would be strange to them. A ball moving past a Flatlander would look like a small dot at first, expanding to a circle, eventually reaching a circle with the ball's diameter, and then shrinking back to a dot before disappearing. What would the Flatlander think of, for example, a human interacting with it, or its world?

3D objects, including us, affect the 2nd dimension. What if in the fourth dimension, there exists a plethora of "animals" (I prefer "constructs") that navigate and live within time itself. They wouldn't be limited to our experience of time, and we could never understand their perceptions. Or even constructs in the fourth spatial dimension (5D) and beyond.

If these construct organisms exist, we'd have no real way of knowing, because, like the Flatlanders, we simply couldn't perceive their full structure or nature at once. We would experience infinitesimal fragments of them, as they moved through their world (interacting with ours like we would Flatlanders - barely aware of the fact that the lower dimensions exist).

Now for the fun... What if all (or some of) the Gods that people have worshiped for tens of thousands of years are merely our limited perception of higher dimensional constructs that took a passing interest in us, and interacted with us? What if we have been acting like a Flatlander that worshiped the humans it dimly perceived?

I can see no reason why such constructs could not exist, living and evolving with their own rules of selection, perhaps becoming sentient (in a way different to our own sentience). Of course, there's no proof, and I can't think of a way to get any, but it's just a thought experiment.

One more thing: According to some theories, following the Big Bang, the lower dimensions (1-4) expanded rapidly, whereas the higher dimensions sort of curled up and shrank "within" the lower ones. Of course, the language I use is not appropriate, but it shall have to suffice.

If this is the case, then perhaps subatomic particles are types of constructs. All possibilities exist at once, time is only experienced because of evolutionary need in our form of life. These constructs would "experience" this world much differently than we do. These particles could be akin to the dot that the Flatlander sees. It may be why we cannot understand quantum mechanics perfectly - it's governed by higher dimensional logic/order. If we could think in higher dimensional terms, we could glimpse the whole nature of these particles.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my musings.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Flatlanders are basically impossible, as they cannot take in nutrients/anything without requiring a hole which cannot exist in 2d. 4d+ is certainly an option though.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Flatlanders are basically impossible, as they cannot take in nutrients/anything without requiring a hole which cannot exist in 2d. 4d+ is certainly an option though.
Sure they could, they'd just absorb the nutrients into whatever constitutes their exterior surface. Think of that old cellphone game where you played a 2D worm who ate little 2D balls, each ball just got tacked onto the end of the worm.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I think it's a bit of a mistake to suppose reality works in other hypothetical dimensions the same way it does in ours. I wouldn't apply our logic to those worlds. >_> Sorry, humans, some things really are just beyond your understanding.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Sure they could, they'd just absorb the nutrients into whatever constitutes their exterior surface. Think of that old cellphone game where you played a 2D worm who ate little 2D balls, each ball just got tacked onto the end of the worm.

Would have to be a form of osmosis, because to have a digestion system in 2d is to split the body in half.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
Would have to be a form of osmosis, because to have a digestion system in 2d is to split the body in half.
Not necessarily, think of a 2d lysosome. You could have 2d food enter the 2d animal through some from of invagination of the outer surface, perhaps like a phosopholipid membrane forming a vesicle, then the food could be transported to a digestion vesicle where the two 2d membranes fuse allowing the food to enter and be slowly digested from the outside by 2d enzymes. Sexy.
 

Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
Could our structures be the interdimensional 'protrusions' of pandimensional beings?

Indeed. We could just be the "dot" of higher dimensional beings, the protrusions into the third dimension.

Halcyon:

Your 2D membranes would not be able to fuse, because that would create depth, the 3rd dimension. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I'm going on no sleep 40+ hours.

Also, a theoretical Flatlander could only perceive and interact with the perimeters of other 2D objects.

I'd love to hear you describe a functional Flatlander, though, if I am misunderstanding you.


And yes, folks, I know that Flatlanders as imagined are impossible, but they are merely a way to describe our relation to potential higher dimensional constructs.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
4D lightly curved space (similar to our 3D ligtly curved space; contrasting to the very very tightly curved higher dimensions used in physics) produces very, very different laws of physics. For one, stable orbits around stars are impossible, and I would guess that subatomic particles would behave vastly differently, which would almost certainly make conventional chemistry impossible.
 

Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
4D lightly curved space (similar to our 3D ligtly curved space; contrasting to the very very tightly curved higher dimensions used in physics) produces very, very different laws of physics. For one, stable orbits around stars are impossible, and I would guess that subatomic particles would behave vastly differently, which would almost certainly make conventional chemistry impossible.

Of course it wouldn't be a realm such as we're used to. That doesn't presuppose that it doesn't have its own rules that can allow for the existence of different types of life.
 
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F0uad

Well-Known Member
Watched to much SCI-Fiction haven't you?

Lets say there are other beings living in a different time-layer how does that connect to evolution or a evolved species?
 

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
Watched to much SCI-Fiction haven't you?

Lets say there are other beings living in a different time-layer how does that connect to evolution or a evolved species?

Sci-fi built the world you and I live in, it had a hand not in laying the bricks but in illuminating the possibilities that could be aspired to by those who made the ideas real.

In any case, these questions are useful if we want to unchain our awareness from 3 dimensional embodiment as presented to us by our mundane sensory fields and perhaps glimpse a more raw state of being-as-awareness; or perhaps just plain ol' 'experiential reality.'
 
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Druidus

Keeper of the Grove
Watched to much SCI-Fiction haven't you?

Not enough.

Lets say there are other beings living in a different time-layer how does that connect to evolution or a evolved species?

I'm assuming, knowing nothing first-hand of higher dimensions, that a natural selection like phenomenon would operate on lifeforms there as well as here.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
What if all (or some of) the Gods that people have worshiped for tens of thousands of years are merely our limited perception of higher dimensional constructs that took a passing interest in us, and interacted with us? What if we have been acting like a Flatlander that worshiped the humans it dimly perceived?

I find this notion more plausible than most mainstream fantasies about god(s).
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Only problem I see is that 5der's would have to assume, theoretically, that 3der's exist. If we can't accept a 2der existing, wouldn't higher dimensional organism have the same limitations? Or would this be one of their special senses, the sense of knowing?
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Would have to be a form of osmosis, because to have a digestion system in 2d is to split the body in half.

Could just eat other 2d organisms or some sort of life gathering synthesis could do the trick being careful not to split in half.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
Could just eat other 2d organisms or some sort of life gathering synthesis could do the trick being careful not to split in half.

color.GIF


In 2D, the line of the digestive system would be the thing that breaks the organism apart, just like cutting a line across a paper to make a digestive system, the paper will be split and dead
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It doesn't seem to have any evidence, but it's probably not falsifiable either. I think that it's likely that there are extraterrestrials out there, and it may be possible that there exist creatures in other universes, in other dimensions, etc.

as they moved through their world (interacting with ours like we would Flatlanders - barely aware of the fact that the lower dimensions exist).

I can see no reason why such constructs could not exist, living and evolving with their own rules of selection, perhaps becoming sentient (in a way different to our own sentience).
Isolating these two statements, if these hypothetical creatures exist 'beyond time', how can they move through their world, interact with anything, and evolve? All of those concepts seem to imply time.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Just a fun thing to think about:

Supposing there are higher dimensions (beyond time), which is currently supported by a number of theories in physics, then could not organisms have evolved to live "there"?
The problem is that "higher dimensions", at least as far as physics and ontology is concerned, means a universe described by some n-dimensional space where n is greater than 4. It also means that anything in the universe must somehow be described in terms of that space. In other words, creating "higher dimensions" doesn't create a "special space" in which organisms might live. It means everything in the universe is somehow explained as existing in this n-dimensional space. However, according to those theories which do include a universe where n is greater than 4, the resulting dimensional space we reside in has very little effect upon us apart from the 3 dimensions of space and the 4th of time.
 
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