Hindu-Bahai Gita Discussion

[Dawnofhope]

It's quite simple, really. The struggle I and other Hindus I've encountered have with the Baha'i Faith is with those that identify as Baha'i tell Hindus what is correct and incorrect about Hinduism or attempt to imply Abrahamic origin, such as in the comment below.


A Manifestation of what God?

As I understand it, Baha'i Faith is an Abrahamic religion, and a statement such as the one above implies that Krishna is a manifestation of the God of Abraham. Why is it difficult to understand why Hindus might have a problem with this?

If you and other Baha'is want to believe this, I personally have no problem with this (I can't speak for other Hindus), but I will take exception to a Baha'i wanting me to believe this.

Why does it bother you that another should want you to believe as they do? Living in the world of people, it is human nature to feel our beliefs or worldview are correct. Do we not wish to some extent to have our beliefs reflected in those around us?

The last time I checked the USA was having an election this year where there are competing personalities and ideologies trying to win over the hearts and minds of their countrymen.

So it does mystify me somewhat, there is such sensitivity around competing religious world views.

That said, I don't expect Hindus to view the world through a Baha'i lens and certainly would never insist on it.

Categorizing a religion as Abrahamic or not is of limited value for me personally and doesn't reflect my thinking.

Hinduism emerged in complete separation from Judaism, Christianity and Islam both temporally and geographically. That said, we inhabit the same earth and are part of the human family. The metaphysical structure of the universe exists independent of what we believe it to be.

Thanks for sharing your views.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why does it bother you that another should want you to believe as they do?

I just said it didn't.

If you and other Baha'is want to believe this, I personally have no problem with this...

I will reiterate what I said...

I will take exception to a Baha'i wanting me to believe this.

That said, I don't expect Hindus to view the world through a Baha'i lens and certainly would never insist on it.

Thank you. I hope other Baha'is will follow your lead in this.

Categorizing a religion as Abrahamic or not is of limited value for me personally and doesn't reflect my thinking.

Same. However, when one of one paradigm attempts to inject their this paradigm into that of another, and further expects another to accept that that said paradigm is relevant to their own, this categorization becomes relevant.

This reminds me, you never answered my question about what God Baha'i believe Krishna is a manifestation of.

 

[GoodAttention]

A Manifestation of what God?

As I understand it, Baha'i Faith is an Abrahamic religion, and a statement such as the one above implies that Krishna is a manifestation of the God of Abraham. Why is it difficult to understand why Hindus might have a problem with this?

If you and other Baha'is want to believe this, I personally have no problem with this (I can't speak for other Hindus), but I will take exception to a Baha'i wanting me to believe this.

Could you consider Abraham's God to be a manifestation of Brahman?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Could you consider Abraham's God to be a manifestation of Brahman?

A more correct wording that reflects my understanding would be that the God of Abraham is an appearance in Brahman.

 

[Dawnofhope]

This reminds me, you never answered my question about what God Baha'i believe Krishna is a manifestation of.

Krishna is a Manifestation of 'God'. But when I think of God the first phrase the comes to mind of 'Unknowable Essence'. I do not think 'Abraham' and in fact 'Abraham' would not be included in my top 100 list in regards attributes of 'God'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Krishna is a Manifestation of 'God'. But when I think of God the first phrase the comes to mind of 'Unknowable Essence'. I do not think 'Abraham' and in fact 'Abraham' would not be included in my top 100 list in regards attributes of 'God'.

That is the Bahai feint. It is not a Hindu belief. What you do with Abraham does not concern any Hindu.
For a Hindu atheist like me, Krishna is a myth.

 

[Aupmanyav]

A more correct wording that reflects my understanding would be that the God of Abraham is an appearance in Brahman.

I agree to that. Even a dog is an appearance of Brahman.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Could you consider Abraham's God to be a manifestation of Brahman?

Abraham is a character in Jewish Mythology, Brahman is a fact.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A Manifestation of what God?

As I understand it, Baha'i Faith is an Abrahamic religion, and a statement such as the one above implies that Krishna is a manifestation of the God of Abraham. Why is it difficult to understand why Hindus might have a problem with this?

If you and other Baha'is want to believe this, I personally have no problem with this (I can't speak for other Hindus), but I will take exception to a Baha'i wanting me to believe this

I will take exception to a Baha'i wanting me to believe this.

Thank you. I hope other Baha'is will follow your lead in this.

I see that absolutely no Baha'i wants you or anyone to believe, that has not been, and will never be an intent of posting on any forum, or for any discussion in life. What Baha'u'llah offered is always given by Baha'i as an alternative thought one can consider, or not consider. They are not given by force, but I agree they may be given unwisely. Not everyone becomes wise overnight, life is a journey from adolescence to maturity.

Hindu have been and will always be free to choose their own path, even if in the future if the world chooses to be a majority of Baha'i. It is written into Baha'i Law that a minority will have a larger representation in any decision making process.

As mentioned above, all the Baha'i offer is that Baha'u'llah has explained many concepts of Faith, which resonate with some teachings that some Hindus may embrace, and indeed, some will challenge current concepts.

We can agree to disagree in every exchange, or we can choose to find differnt frames of references.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A more correct wording that reflects my understanding would be that the God of Abraham is an appearance in Brahman.

Could you consider that Abraham is an appearance in Brahman. That all the Prophets mentioned in a book called the Bible are an appearance in Brahman?

In other words Brahman is the source of Abrahams consciousness.

That is how I understand it, is this following explanation the way you see it.

In Hinduism, Brahman (Sanskrit: ब्रह्मन्; IAST: Brahman) connotes the highest universal principle, the Ultimate Reality of the universe.[1][2][3] In major schools of Hindu philosophy, it is the non-physical, efficient, formal and final cause of all that exists.[2][4][5] It is the pervasive, infinite, eternal truth, consciousness and bliss which does not change, yet is the cause of all changes.[1][3][6] Brahman as a metaphysical concept refers to the single binding unity behind diversity in all that exists (Wiki)

Regards Tony

 

[SalixIncendium]

Could you consider that Abraham is an appearance in Brahman. That all the Prophets mentioned in a book called the Bible are an appearance in Brahman?

Yes.

In other words Brahman is the source of Abrahams consciousness.

Then you've misunderstood my words.

That is how I understand it, is this following explanation the way you see it.

In Hinduism, Brahman (Sanskrit: ब्रह्मन्; IAST: Brahman) connotes the highest universal principle, the Ultimate Reality of the universe.[1][2][3] In major schools of Hindu philosophy, it is the non-physical, efficient, formal and final cause of all that exists.[2][4][5] It is the pervasive, infinite, eternal truth, consciousness and bliss which does not change, yet is the cause of all changes.[1][3][6] Brahman as a metaphysical concept refers to the single binding unity behind diversity in all that exists (Wiki)

Yes.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes.


Then you've misunderstood my words.


Yes.

I was not misunderstanding your words.

I am trying to clarify the statement "the God of Abraham" in a mutual frame of reference.

Your 2 positive responses is the way I see Brahman in Christianity, Islam and the Bahai Writings.

So when we read the story of Abraham, those inspirations of Abraham are from Brahman.

It does not have to be seperated into the 'God of' Abrahamic thoughts. It is "Brahman as a metaphysical concept refers to the single binding unity behind diversity in all that exists".

Maybe my communication is just blunt?

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

I just said it didn't.

You are quite correct.