Hindu Dharma?

[Aupmanyav]

No, no, no. What I meant was that Satya is 'param padam', the highest state.

 

[atanu]

Namaskaram
as this Hinduism DIR is ...''Discuss Individual Religion'' , ...not Discuss individual Culture, .... Hindu laws of inclusivity seem only partialy relevant , ....

please Atanu ji , if you could elaborate on your concerns I would be both interested and most greatfull .

Namaskar Ratikala

I voiced my concern in the OP and let me repeat it.

When a person, actually holding Lokyata belief, professes to be Hindu Advaitin, it is untruth.

Lokyata belief on one hand and advaita or ajAtivAda understanding on the other, are diametrically opposite. Advaita believes in one truth called Brahman of the intrinsic nature of Sat-Chit-Ananda. This is the teaching of Veda, Vedanta, and of advaita Guru Shankara. This one truth is like an infinite un-cut marble that has all the designs. It is itself the truth, existence, and knowledge. It does not take birth due to material interactions. Material interactions become possible due the Sat-Chit-Ananda.

Lokyatas, wilfully (or due to sheer ignorance?), are misguiding readers of Hinduism forum.

I believe that there is nothing wrong in believing one way or another. But it is wrong to impose upon other readers that:

1) Veda is not the core of Hindu dharma.
2) Brahman is mere electrical energy.
3) Consciousness rises in brain due to chemical reactions.
4) There is no soul and its reincarnation.
5) Consciousness is limited to one body-brain and one life. etc.​

These are all basic tenets of Materialism and these are not taught in Hindu Dharma.

My concern is that some newcomers may get misguided that Hindu dharma teaches materialism. This has to some extent happened to Buddhism Dir. It should not happen to Hinduism Dir.

But the way of Ishwara is inscrutable. I bow to that.

Regards.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I believe that there is nothing wrong in believing one way or another. But it is wrong to impose upon other readers that:

1) Veda is not the core of Hindu dharma.
2) Brahman is mere electrical energy.
3) Consciousness rises in brain due to chemical reactions.
4) There is no soul and its no reincarnation.
5) Consciousness is limited to one body-brain and one life. etc.​

But the way of Ishwara is inscrutable. I bow to that.

I have always maintained that I am a maverick 'advaitist' and that "I do not in any way represent the well-meaning though superstitious Hindu majority". How does one impose his/her views in a forum? Every one states his/her own opinion if different.
1. Yes, I believe that Vedas are an addition to Hinduism and not the core of Hinduism. Parts of Vedas are close to the core since they were were written after Aryan settled in India.
2. As you say, Ishwara is inscrutable. It could even be energy. We do not know it fully.
3. Consciousness by chemical and electrical impulses is a scientific fact.
4. There is no proof of God, soul, and hence no reincarnation.
5. Yeah, through what material or process does it transfer to another life or body?
This is 21st Century. By 2050, India will be one of the two or three most prosperous and powerful nations of the world. Do not hold it back. Move with times.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Oh, I see, I am off your ignored list. Thanks.
Like in 'Advaita', there are no clear dividing lines between religion, science, politics, economics, materialism and philosophy. One thing impacts another.
There is no 'moksha' in 'advaita', when all things are Brahman themselves.The only hindrance is realization of this fact. "Brahma veda Brahmaiva bhavati"
I hope someday this will be understood.

अहं निर्विकल्पॊ निराकार रूपॊ विभुत्वाच्च सर्वत्र सर्वेन्द्रियाणाम् l
न चासंगतं नैव मुक्तिर् न मेय: चिदानन्द रूप: शिवोऽहम् शिवॊऽहम् ॥

"Aham Nirvikalpo Nirākāra Rūpo, Vibhutvaachcha Sarvatra Sarvendriyānām;
Na Cha Asangatam Naiva Muktir Na Meyah Chidānanda Rūpah Shivo'ham Shivo'ham."

I am all pervasive. I am without any attributes, and without any form. I have neither attachment to the world, nor to liberation. I have no wishes for anything because I am everything, everywhere, every time, always in equilibrium. I am the form of eternal happiness, the auspicious, Shiva.
http://www.geetganga.org/nirvana-shatakam-निर्वाण-षटकम्

Changed Goswami Tulsi Das' line a little in my signature.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Aupmanyav ji

I have always maintained that I am a maverick 'advaitist' and that "I do not in any way represent the well-meaning though superstitious Hindu majority". How does one impose his/her views in a forum? Every one states his/her own opinion if different.

this comment is not nececarily aimed at you but just observation ....when people express veiws there is allways someone impressionalble who's thoughts and actions will be coloured by what they read especialy if it ia a veiw held by the majority , ....for example I have noticed many times that the word surrender is met with objection even hostility , ..yet it is an important principle in Vedic culture , ...the more materialistic the beleif the more the person clings to self and to oppinion and rejects Vedic principles , ....the more this mistake is vissable in posters outlook the more muddied the waters become , untill old school devotees become looked upon as being unreasonably strict and in the instance of surrender too submissive , ......

we submit for one reason , we realise our limitations as embodied souls , we realise that by dint of birth in human form we have a covering of ignorance or delusion , .....

those of materialistic bent not willing or able to realise this focus overly upon the self thinking it to be everything , this is a severe handycap to any form of Sadhana , .....

so we have to have the principle of surrender , ....we have to have the principle of truth , ....we then have to strive for it .

1. Yes, I believe that Vedas are an addition to Hinduism and not the core of Hinduism. Parts of Vedas are close to the core since they were were written after Aryan settled in India.

will I become blue in the face by keep repeating this Veda is a self existing eternaml truth , ....newer was there nor will there be a time when it does not exist , ......Veda's the books we posess became manifest due to our ignorance , ....vedas as revealed texts can prehaps be dated and put in a historical time frame , ...but Veda canot as it is an eternal self existing truth , .......

2. As you say, Ishwara is inscrutable. It could even be energy. We do not know it fully.

inscrutable is an excelent word , as it is that which is too vast for our simple minds to grasp , nor can it be found by scientific examination as even science in its advanced state is insuficient , ...going down the line of reasining that thinks it can find or identify such vastness or encapsulate its qualities only leads to frustration as yes in one respect it is the energy , power or creative force behind all things that were or will be , but as it is etenal and we as matter are not it canot be found in matter , nor can it be found by material means , .....it can be found only by the Sadhak who surrenders all sence of self knowing it to be illusuory , ....

3. Consciousness by chemical and electrical impulses is a scientific fact.

I am no scientist but surely even the most inteligent of Scientists will admit that by examining matter all that can be found is matter , .....Consciousness when embodied in matter has an efect which may be measured by way of a reaction or efect on the matter it inhabits , but surely by this method all we can find is the reaction not the consciousness , this then would make the measurable chemical and electrical impulses mearly reactions caused by the presence of consciousness , ...thus also proving the inscrutable nature of consciousness , ....

why do we cling only to measurable material facts ? .....this is like only recognising an action and denying that any intention lay behind it , .........

4. There is no proof of God, soul, and hence no reincarnation.

to whom then are you offering your heart , ..?

O Son of Wind God, destroyer of troubles, of auspicious form; along with Sri Rām, brother Lakshaman and Mother Sīta, O King of Gods, make my heart your sole abode

5. Yeah, through what material or process does it transfer to another life or body?
This is 21st Century. By 2050, India will be one of the two or three most prosperous and powerful nations of the world. Do not hold it back. Move with times.

at last you have answered your own question , ......move with the times , ....are you serious ? ....you mean go headlong into Kaliyuga and embrace Greed and Ignorance ! ....leave behind Knowledge , Wisdom and Goodness ? .....please ask why a white girl like me renounces her own culture to study yours , .....because the pride of powerfull nations makes them totaly blind to the human predicement , both wealth and power corrupt , and in the state of infatuation with their own importance these nations loose all sence of rightiousness , decency and what constitutes true Knowledge , .....

please , please think this through carefully , ......you have this as your signature , .....O Son of Wind God, destroyer of troubles, of auspicious form; along with Sri Rām, brother Lakshaman and Mother Sīta, O King of Gods, make my heart your sole abode , .....
how can you write this and not hold that Rightiousness of Ram as supreme ???

 

[atanu]

Namaskaram Aupmanyav ji

this comment is not nececarily aimed at you but just observation ....when people express veiws there is allways someone impressionalble who's thoughts and actions will be coloured by what they read especialy if it ia a veiw held by the majority , ....for example I have noticed many times that the word surrender is met with objection even hostility , ..yet it is an important principle in Vedic culture , ...the more materialistic the beleif the more the person clings to self and to oppinion and rejects Vedic principles , ....the more this mistake is vissable in posters outlook the more muddied the waters become , untill old school devotees become looked upon as being unreasonably strict and in the instance of surrender too submissive , ......

we submit for one reason , we realise our limitations as embodied souls , we realise that by dint of birth in human form we have a covering of ignorance or delusion , .....

those of materialistic bent not willing or able to realise this focus overly upon the self thinking it to be everything , this is a severe handycap to any form of Sadhana , .....

so we have to have the principle of surrender , ....we have to have the principle of truth , ....we then have to strive for it .

will I become blue in the face by keep repeating this Veda is a self existing eternaml truth , ....newer was there nor will there be a time when it does not exist , ......Veda's the books we posess became manifest due to our ignorance , ....vedas as revealed texts can prehaps be dated and put in a historical time frame , ...but Veda canot as it is an eternal self existing truth , .......

inscrutable is an excelent word , as it is that which is too vast for our simple minds to grasp , nor can it be found by scientific examination as even science in its advanced state is insuficient , ...going down the line of reasining that thinks it can find or identify such vastness or encapsulate its qualities only leads to frustration as yes in one respect it is the energy , power or creative force behind all things that were or will be , but as it is etenal and we as matter are not it canot be found in matter , nor can it be found by material means , .....it can be found only by the Sadhak who surrenders all sence of self knowing it to be illusuory , ....

I am no scientist but surely even the most inteligent of Scientists will admit that by examining matter all that can be found is matter , .....Consciousness when embodied in matter has an efect which may be measured by way of a reaction or efect on the matter it inhabits , but surely by this method all we can find is the reaction not the consciousness , this then would make the measurable chemical and electrical impulses mearly reactions caused by the presence of consciousness , ...thus also proving the inscrutable nature of consciousness , ....

why do we cling only to measurable material facts ? .....this is like only recognising an action and denying that any intention lay behind it , .........

to whom then are you offering your heart , ..?

O Son of Wind God, destroyer of troubles, of auspicious form; along with Sri Rām, brother Lakshaman and Mother Sīta, O King of Gods, make my heart your sole abode

at last you have answered your own question , ......move with the times , ....are you serious ? ....you mean go headlong into Kaliyuga and embrace Greed and Ignorance ! ....leave behind Knowledge , Wisdom and Goodness ? .....please ask why a white girl like me renounces her own culture to study yours , .....because the pride of powerfull nations makes them totaly blind to the human predicement , both wealth and power corrupt , and in the state of infatuation with their own importance these nations loose all sence of rightiousness , decency and what constitutes true Knowledge , .....

please , please think this through carefully , ......you have this as your signature , .....O Son of Wind God, destroyer of troubles, of auspicious form; along with Sri Rām, brother Lakshaman and Mother Sīta, O King of Gods, make my heart your sole abode , .....
how can you write this and not hold that Rightiousness of Ram as supreme ???

It is the best post I have yet read in this forum.

Best regards.

 

[Aupmanyav]

we submit for one reason , we realize our limitations as embodied souls , we realise that by dint of birth in human form we have a covering of ignorance or delusion, .. those of materialistic bent not willing or able to realize this focus overly upon the self thinking it to be everything , this is a severe handycap to any form of Sadhana, ..

While I appreciate your excellent words, Ratiben, I have always done that, you are such a wonderful person, only too far from where I stay, notwithstanding our little differences of opinion, otherwise we would have had some great time together, I will like to mention that I arrived at my conclusion after some sadhana and through the grace of Lord Rama.

As for Lord Rama, Mother Sita, brother Lakshaman and Lord Hanuman, they are my idols, my beacons in life, that is why I keep them in my heart, all the time.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Prabhu ji

It is the best post I have yet read in this forum.

Best regards.

My best regards also , ...I am humbled by your kind remark , ...after all had you not opened the thread I would not have commented , ....I am humbled also by your comitment to maintain the purity of traditions , .....Prabhu ji I thank you .

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Aupmanyav ji

While I appreciate your excellent words, Ratiben, I have always done that, you are such a wonderful person, only too far from where I stay, notwithstanding our little differences of opinion, otherwise we would have had some great time together, I will like to mention that I arrived at my conclusion after some sadhana and through the grace of Lord Rama.

beware what you say , ...when finances permit , ....I will be coming to Jaipur , ...which means coming through Deli then we can happily discuss the Grace of Lord Rama , ....next to which small differences of opinion are nothing , ...

As for Lord Rama, Mother Sita, brother Lakshaman and Lord Hanuman, they are my idols, my beacons in life, that is why I keep them in my heart, all the time.

Jai Jai for that I am made very happy , .....

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is wonderful news Ratiben. Hope we meet. I have a close friend in Jaipur. If ever you need any help there, just let me know, as also in Jodhpur which is my city.

 

[ajay0]

I believe that there is nothing wrong in believing one way or another. But it is wrong to impose upon other readers that:

1) Veda is not the core of Hindu dharma.
2) Brahman is mere electrical energy.
3) Consciousness rises in brain due to chemical reactions.
4) There is no soul and its reincarnation.
5) Consciousness is limited to one body-brain and one life. etc.​

These are all basic tenets of Materialism and these are not taught in Hindu Dharma.

My concern is that some newcomers may get misguided that Hindu dharma teaches materialism. This has to some extent happened to Buddhism Dir. It should not happen to Hinduism Dir.

I found the second laughable.

But seriously speaking, if this sort of stuff is happening in this forum, it does not serve the purpose of Hinduism, but of Maya.

It would be the duty of the moderators and forum members to ensure proper information is disseminated and the forum does not become the devil's platform.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What is the purpose of the forum? What is proper information? Is it what the scriptures mention or what is validated by science also? Who decides what is 'proper' in Hinduism or not? Ajay, this is no less than a mine-field. Views differ.

 

[Bhudev]

Hindu Dharma is a Ethno-Religious Way of Life of Indic people. every Indian Hindu/ Muslim/Sikh/Jain/Buddhist have their own Caste/Tribe. just like Jews have Judaism, we have Dharma.

 

[Kirran]

I think the primacy of group identify in religion needs to be kept in mind - we easily buy into Western narratives of defining religions by doctrine and practice, which don't even apply properly to Christianity and Islam, let alone Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism...

 

[sayak83]

I often come across people, active in internet, who while opposing all tenets and practices of Hindu Dharma however, act as if they are integral part of Hindu Dharma, by employing a subtle confusion. This thread is to discuss this issue.

Reportedly, the ‘Hindu’ term was first used by Persians to denote the people living in the sub-continental peninsula, bordered by the river Sindhu (whose distortion gave rise to the term ‘Hindu’). Today, it is a cultural-Legal term, and includes most Indians, except some, as explained in the blog below.



On the other hand, Hindu Dharma (a term which undoubtedly has come in common use) actually refers to Sanatana Dharma or Vaidika Dharma. It is not merely a cultural or a legal usage.

Hindu Dharma - वेद Veda

This is the standard understanding of what Hindu Dharma is. Brahman, Ishwara, Atman, Karma, Purusartha, Moksha, Shruti etc. are standard terms derived from Vedas and subsequent scriptures.
.....

So, when we refer to a dharma called Hinduism are we referring to dharma called Sanatana Dharma, which has Vedas as the root or not?

Can Lokayata or Charvaka darsana-s, which deny Ishwara, Brahman, consciousness beyond body, Karma, re-incarnation, testimony of Vedas as proof, be counted as Vaidika or Sanatana Dharma?

Category No.
Carvaka, Ajjivika, Jaina, Buddha, Samkhya, Vaisesika etc. have always been a part of the discourse of Dharma that is today called Hinduism All the great philsophers and theologians of the Dharma (Sankara, Udayana, Ramanuja, Vacaspati Misra etc.) have included them in their arguments and dialogue partners as contending darsana-s, but not as alien dharma-s. Such treatises of eminent scholarship were being written right up to the 18th century and includes all these groups. What has been excluded from this 3000 year dialogue are the truly alien religions :- Judaism, Greek religions, Islam, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Confucianism etc. even though all of them were known and people were familiar with them. An example

Vidyaranya - Wikipedia

Vidyaranya's most famous works are Pārāśara-Mādhavīya and the Sarvadarśanasaṅgraha "Compendium of school of philosophies", a compendium of all the known Indian schools of philosophy. To quote Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan, the Sarvadarśanasaṅgraha "sketches sixteen systems of thought so as to exhibit a gradually ascending series, culminating in the Advaita Vedanta (or non-dualism)." The sixteen systems of philosophy expounded by him are:[5]

1. Cārvāka
2. Buddhism
3. Arhata or Jainism
4. Purna-Prajña
5. Nakulisa-Paśupata
6. Shaivism
7. Pratyabhijña (Kashmir Shaivism)
8. Raseśvara
9. Vaisheshika or Aulukya
10. Akshapada or Nyaya
11. Jaimini
12. Pāṇiniya
13. Samkhya
14. Patanjala or Yoga
15. Vedanta or Adi Shankara

Of course Vidrayana's belief that Vedanta is the culmination of all Hindu darsana's is his own take (Gangesa or Prabhakara will disagree) . But that is not the point. The point is these groups have always considered themselves part of the same conversation regarding dharma and many of the sramanic traditions (ajjivika, jaina etc.) are as old as the upanisads and much older than later theistic Hinduism based on agamic texts. You do not get to exclude them from the Hindu fold.

 

[atanu]

Category No.
Of course Vidrayana's belief that Vedanta is the culmination of all Hindu darsana's is his own take (Gangesa or Prabhakara will disagree) . But that is not the point. The point is these groups have always considered themselves part of the same conversation regarding dharma and many of the sramanic traditions (ajjivika, jaina etc.) are as old as the upanisads and much older than later theistic Hinduism based on agamic texts. You do not get to exclude them from the Hindu fold.

Same confusion repeated, IMO.

The term 'Hindu' can be used in multiple context. But Hindu dharma primarily means Vaidika dharma.

 

[Kirran]

Nice to see you again, @atanu

 

[Aupmanyav]

Category No. Nice to see you again, @atanu , in spite of all the differences of opinion that we may have. .