Hindu housewives?

[Islington]

Hello everyone,

I've been reading some books lately and some of them mentioned the place of women in Hinduism.

Long story short, unless they are renunciant, women's place should be at home, not working, raising and teaching very young children (until 10 at least), maintaining a positive aura in the home, caring for the shrine, managing the home funds, etc.
She would be free to read, write, of course, play music, but ideally she would not go outside, in the streets unaccompanied.
In return, her husband would protect her, care for her, give her what she wants, need and be always respectful of her. The idea of treating her like a goddess comes back quite often and this all sound like a perfect picture in a perfect world where everyone is content, at their place, in the society.


I'm kind of lucky, I have been able to experience both way of living, the one with the whole family living in one house full of women and the one where a mother is working and alone to raise her children.
But then, this is only me, only what I have experienced from my little life.


So I would like to ask you, as a man, woman, or in-between. What do you think of this life as an ideal? Does it appeal to you, personally? Do you think this is applicable in this 21th century? In the country you currently live in?

Go ahead, I'm anxious to read your opinions!

 

[sayak83]

Hello everyone,

I've been reading some books lately and some of them mentioned the place of women in Hinduism.

Long story short, unless they are renunciant, women's place should be at home, not working, raising and teaching very young children (until 10 at least), maintaining a positive aura in the home, caring for the shrine, managing the home funds, etc.
She would be free to read, write, of course, play music, but ideally she would not go outside, in the streets unaccompanied.
In return, her husband would protect her, care for her, give her what she wants, need and be always respectful of her. The idea of treating her like a goddess comes back quite often and this all sound like a perfect picture in a perfect world where everyone is content, at their place, in the society.


I'm kind of lucky, I have been able to experience both way of living, the one with the whole family living in one house full of women and the one where a mother is working and alone to raise her children.
But then, this is only me, only what I have experienced from my little life.


So I would like to ask you, as a man, woman, or in-between. What do you think of this life as an ideal? Does it appeal to you, personally? Do you think this is applicable in this 21th century? In the country you currently live in?

Go ahead, I'm anxious to read your opinions!

Nothing wrong with going out and working. Many Hindu women do. What one considers good for oneself depends on the person. Also gender roles change with times. No issue with that.

 

[Valjean]

Hello everyone,

I've been reading some books lately and some of them mentioned the place of women in Hinduism.

Long story short, unless they are renunciant, women's place should be at home, not working, raising and teaching very young children (until 10 at least), maintaining a positive aura in the home, caring for the shrine, managing the home funds, etc.
She would be free to read, write, of course, play music, but ideally she would not go outside, in the streets unaccompanied.
In return, her husband would protect her, care for her, give her what she wants, need and be always respectful of her. The idea of treating her like a goddess comes back quite often and this all sound like a perfect picture in a perfect world where everyone is content, at their place, in the society.


I'm kind of lucky, I have been able to experience both way of living, the one with the whole family living in one house full of women and the one where a mother is working and alone to raise her children.
But then, this is only me, only what I have experienced from my little life.


So I would like to ask you, as a man, woman, or in-between. What do you think of this life as an ideal? Does it appeal to you, personally? Do you think this is applicable in this 21th century? In the country you currently live in?

Go ahead, I'm anxious to read your opinions!

This presumes a very insecure, stratified and dangerous society; a society with little opportunity for autonomy or social improvement; a society afraid of change or enterprise.

 

[sayak83]

This presumes a very insecure, stratified and dangerous society; a society with little opportunity for autonomy or social improvement; a society afraid of change or enterprise.

That's how Hindus felt under Muslim and Mongol rule, from which era most these texts are from.

 

[Valjean]

I think that's how many rural Hindus feel even today, so afraid to deviate from the tried-and-true that the slightest change, even if it benefits him, causes anxiety.

 

[Vinayaka]

So I would like to ask you, as a man, woman, or in-between. What do you think of this life as an ideal? Does it appeal to you, personally? Do you think this is applicable in this 21th century? In the country you currently live in?

Go ahead, I'm anxious to read your opinions!

As an ideal, sure, but in reality, very difficult to do, and so many variations. I'm 64 years old, and have experienced this as a child, and as a father/husband. I can't imagine my childhood of getting off that school bus, and Mom not being there. My brothers and I would have gotten into so much more trouble, and the kids I knew who did have that situation did get into more trouble. Not all of them, but many.

When we got married in 1975, we looked at all the options. Boss worked until the first child came along, and then we opted for the Mom at home route. There were problems in the areas of loneliness, money, and envy for me being out. Over time it became even clearer that we'd made the right decision - for us. I worked with many female colleagues in the school system, and for the most part, all of them who had kids were doing amazing stuff juggling the two careers. The kids were all fine.

Forty years later things have really changed. I personally only know two families that do this now. I see the women with toddlers at the temple on weekday mornings. It looks great, especially for the kids. The choice between going with Mom to temple 'helping' her cook and all that, seems far better than the option of day care. Just recently our priest's wife wanted to go back to work, and the little guy was off to day care. He bawled so much over the first 2 weeks that the day care called home to tell them that it just wasn't working, and they'd have to take him out. Poor little guy. But I think they;ll try to find another friendlier , and probably more expensive day home for him. The first observation for the two that are staying at home is that their husbands both have really decent high paying jobs. One is a veterinarian.

The books you are reading, as you know, I'm very familiar with. One of the problems is that it sounds so cut and dry, but in reality its just presenting the ideal. People leave or stop reading because of it, without really delving into how much of it is actually applied. In that (my) sampradaya, the heart of the teaching is individual circumstance. So if a young couple who didn't know what to do in this regard, but sat down with the Guru to discuss it, and put everything on the table, wisdom for that particular circumstance would apply.

Even 40 years ago, when a family I know well was struggling financially, the advice was for both to go to work, at least until they got back on their feet really well.

So thanks for the topic.

The bottom line is that it's the person's choice, and they're lucky if circumstances prevail (money, spousal support) where they do have that choice.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think that's how many rural Hindus feel even today, so afraid to deviate from the tried-and-true that the slightest change, even if it benefits him, causes anxiety.

In the cities and in the west, the real deviation is to stay home.

 

[sayak83]

I think that's how many rural Hindus feel even today, so afraid to deviate from the tried-and-true that the slightest change, even if it benefits him, causes anxiety.

Yes, patriarchy is a problem. People are trying to educate people and working on empowering women at home and workplace. But social conventions are hard to change quickly.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Long story short, .. experienced from my little life.

So I would like to ask you, as a man, woman, or in-between. What do you think of this life as an ideal? Does it appeal to you, personally? Do you think this is applicable in this 21th century? In the country you currently live in?

Generalizing either the city women or the village women will be a mistake. There are all kinds. At Municipal and Village level upto 50% political seats are reserved for women, and the Upper House of the Parliament has already passed the bill giving 33% reservation in the Parliament. Indian women generally do not remain docile for all their life, in cities or in villages, with age they acquire power.

Those who are at the helm, Defense Minister (Nirmala Sitaraman), Foreign Minister (Sushma Swaraj), Chief Minister of Jammu & Kashmir (Mehbooba Mufti), Of Bengal (Mamta Bannerji), Chairpersons of Indian Banks (State Bank of India - Arundhati Bhattacharya, Chanda Kochar - ICICI Bank, Shikha Sharma - Axis Bank, Shanti Ekambaram - Kotak Mahindra Bank, Usha Ananthasubramaniam - Punjab National Bank, Naina Lal Kidwai - HSBC, India, Kalpana Morparia - JPMorgan, Kaku Nakhate - Bank of America, Archana Bhargav - Union Bank of India, Vijylskshmi Iyer - Bank of India, for more List of Indian businesswomen - Wikipedia). The wives of two martyred armymen recently got commission in Indian army (the age rules were relaxed for them).

Other too are free to do what they like (taking into consideration the law and order problems - going out late in night is not advocated anywhere in India). The village women always work and perhaps one third of women in cities also work. Of course, home management and cooking is in their sphere barring a few. Sure, the world is not perfect. There are men who will have excellent equation with their wife and others who will always be quarreling, and sometimes divorcing.

If you ask for my view, I think unless men devote more time to house-keeping, managing a job and the house (children and many a times the husband too) is taxing for women. Again, many women take up jobs for the heck of it - just for money, they do not have any interest in the job. Women teachers in schools and employees in government offices are seen knitting woolens. This is not good for their jobs also. So, I would say, this all depends on situations.

 

[Islington]

Utopias and ideals are things I am really wary of, to be honest.
I've found these ideas in old and more modern books and/or articles (yes, that one too, @Vinayaka, but not the only one!) and I wonder why they pleased so many people. They kept this ideal. No matter where it came from.
Is this patriarchy? Perhaps, perhaps not.

There is a certain benefit for children to have a parent (no matter which one) staying at home!
And I remember my grandmother and mother saying that in the countryside, everyone have their share of work! No matter man, woman, child or beast! I guess this is the same, no matter which country one is from.

Yes, I am asking for everyone's opinion, here. As you all know, I am one of these newbies and the diversity of your opinions will help me to consider things from a different angle. (Especially since fancying myself a parent is less than an ideal for me! )

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I think as others have said we have to looks at the historical context for writings like this. Personal opinions aside, I don't think it's realistic to assume that everyone's home situation can allow for this "ideal". Two parents working is often about necessity here in the west,because cost of living has grown out of control. I know lots of men and women who would love to stay home with their kids but aren't able to.

Then you have the couples who, for whatever reason don't wish to have children. As a childless woman myself who works freelance from home, I can tell you that if I had to stay inside all day, even with hobbies, I would go insane. People need fresh air and social lives to be healthy, regardless of gender.

Ideals, like Dharma shift with context. It's also perfectly normal to have an ideal to shoot toward. However, letting it go beyond a preference leads to attachment and unhappiness.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is a certain benefit for children to have a parent (no matter which one) staying at home!

In case of India, if it is not the parents, it is grand-parents - us. My grandsons return at 1.30 and 2.30 pm. Their mother comes at 3.30. She is a teacher. So, preparing their lunch, having them change into home clothes, feeding them in the afternoon, getting the younger one for a nap in the afternoon and many a times feeding in the evening also is my wife's job. The younger one likes to get to sleep in the night with my wife, my daughter-in-law will carry him to their room when he is asleep. My wife helps him in chanting of his night mantras. I have an audio of that, but do not know how to post it here. The elder one sleeps in our room, though he has a room for himself. Grand-parents are indispensable and are supposed to earn their keep.

 

[sayak83]

As an ideal, sure, but in reality, very difficult to do, and so many variations. I'm 64 years old, and have experienced this as a child, and as a father/husband. I can't imagine my childhood of getting off that school bus, and Mom not being there. My brothers and I would have gotten into so much more trouble, and the kids I knew who did have that situation did get into more trouble. Not all of them, but many.

When we got married in 1975, we looked at all the options. Boss worked until the first child came along, and then we opted for the Mom at home route. There were problems in the areas of loneliness, money, and envy for me being out. Over time it became even clearer that we'd made the right decision - for us. I worked with many female colleagues in the school system, and for the most part, all of them who had kids were doing amazing stuff juggling the two careers. The kids were all fine.

Forty years later things have really changed. I personally only know two families that do this now. I see the women with toddlers at the temple on weekday mornings. It looks great, especially for the kids. The choice between going with Mom to temple 'helping' her cook and all that, seems far better than the option of day care. Just recently our priest's wife wanted to go back to work, and the little guy was off to day care. He bawled so much over the first 2 weeks that the day care called home to tell them that it just wasn't working, and they'd have to take him out. Poor little guy. But I think they;ll try to find another friendlier , and probably more expensive day home for him. The first observation for the two that are staying at home is that their husbands both have really decent high paying jobs. One is a veterinarian.

The books you are reading, as you know, I'm very familiar with. One of the problems is that it sounds so cut and dry, but in reality its just presenting the ideal. People leave or stop reading because of it, without really delving into how much of it is actually applied. In that (my) sampradaya, the heart of the teaching is individual circumstance. So if a young couple who didn't know what to do in this regard, but sat down with the Guru to discuss it, and put everything on the table, wisdom for that particular circumstance would apply.

Even 40 years ago, when a family I know well was struggling financially, the advice was for both to go to work, at least until they got back on their feet really well.

So thanks for the topic.

The bottom line is that it's the person's choice, and they're lucky if circumstances prevail (money, spousal support) where they do have that choice.

Not only that, Hinduism is practiced by thousands of communities from forest aboriginal hunter gatherers, fisher communities, nomadic pastorals, peasants and jet setting CEO-s, both men and women and transgendered people. To create a domestic ideal that works for all from 3000 BCE to 21st century is just illogical.

 

[Shantanu]

Hello everyone,

I've been reading some books lately and some of them mentioned the place of women in Hinduism.

Long story short, unless they are renunciant, women's place should be at home, not working, raising and teaching very young children (until 10 at least), maintaining a positive aura in the home, caring for the shrine, managing the home funds, etc.
She would be free to read, write, of course, play music, but ideally she would not go outside, in the streets unaccompanied.
In return, her husband would protect her, care for her, give her what she wants, need and be always respectful of her. The idea of treating her like a goddess comes back quite often and this all sound like a perfect picture in a perfect world where everyone is content, at their place, in the society.


I'm kind of lucky, I have been able to experience both way of living, the one with the whole family living in one house full of women and the one where a mother is working and alone to raise her children.
But then, this is only me, only what I have experienced from my little life.


So I would like to ask you, as a man, woman, or in-between. What do you think of this life as an ideal? Does it appeal to you, personally? Do you think this is applicable in this 21th century? In the country you currently live in?

Go ahead, I'm anxious to read your opinions!

As I see it when you are married and you want children than the husband should do the earning and the wife stays at home to look after the children and run the home. But as soon as she is a little free she is entitled to look for a career of her own and earn her own money for the home. So long as the family is surviving it does not matter once the children have had proper parental care for the first 10 years of their lives. After that the kids can go to school and come home and look after themselves. The talents of the women in society cannot be suppressed.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam

There is no "ideal" anything. There are only potential, possibilities.
Our souls and advancement on the path are so varied, our needs for growing and furthering our knowledge and experiences are not the same. Therefore, presenting one ideal thing is kind of fruitless: it would work for those whose karma and Dharma brought them where they need to be. But not for the others.
For some it works, a lot is gained. Experience, wisdom, closer to realization
For some it doesn't work. A lot is gained. Experience, wisdom, closer to realization.
It is the same. There is no ideal.
One path ends, another open. Always.
What is important is to keep walking.

Aum namah Shivaya

 

[SomeRandom]

I think these days ideally a "woman's place" is wherever the hell she wants it to be. Same for the man. As to kids, it takes two to tango so both should invest time into teaching and raising said kids as a couple. A unified unit. Both live in the house (presumably) so why should only the woman do the housework? Men aren't children, they're old enough to do chores as well.
But that is not reality for some people. As long as pragmatic solutions are found then so be it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If men cannot help the women in housework, then women should decide whether they should work or not. The load on a woman should not be made unbearable. That is really the only thing which I am concerned with. 'Don't be unfair to women'.