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Hindu Monotheism
- Thread starter duvduv
- Start date
If this is as you describe, then how can Vishnu be considered the Supreme God Brahman? In any case, I am sure it would have been just as easy or easier if all Hindus focused together on the single Supreme God of the universe, who I can't see is any different than the God of the Bible starting with Genesis, and the same of the Ten Commandments. That's what it sounds like from those selections of the Vedas. The Great Spirit of the Plains Indians of North America, Allah of the Muslims, etc.
You'd call yourself a polytheist?
Sure. Definitely not a monotheist. I guess it depends on how we define things. Henotheism is a version pf polytheism I think. God and gods is still Gods.
I think of polytheism and henotheism as basically saying there are a load of deities, and no Supreme. Whereas I think for you and I we say that the Absolute is God.
Semantics!
Far more than semantics I'm afraid. When I, and many others go to different temples, where the main shrine is to a different God, the vibration is definitely different. This is not a scholarly thing but an inner feeling. Murugan temples feel different than Siva temples, than Amman temples, etc.
But if you want to think its just semantics, that's fine too. Hindus can always agree to disagree in a cordial way.
But the main point here, as usual, is that even the Hindus that do take a monotheistic approach, I'm certainly not convinced it is the same God as the Abrahamic God. For sure the understanding of said God is vastly different.
For those folks who believe its all the same God, I see no reason why they couldn't happily just switch religions. If that were truly the case, then worshiping 'It' would be the same in a mosque, a synagogue, a temple, a church, a cathedral, at home in a shrine, or in nature.
Yeah, sure, Murugan's a different vibe to Shiva's a different vibe to Kali's a different vibe to Vishnu etc.
If you have read my recent post -- see the conclusion section.
The multiple pre-manifestations of nirguN nirAkAr Bramhan' are a hierarchy of Divine Principles, called tattva. VishNu is very very very very close, one of the 2 immediate manifestations of the Absolute Truth, Bramhan, and more popular due to His response and sweet interactions with devotees while protecting them and enabling their transcendence of the mortal realm.
Our road to the Divine becomes much sweeter when we are revealed the various aspects and choose what we feel is the most venerable. This in turn is governed by our own soul-composition -- a ratio of goodness: passion: ignorance.
Asking that Hindus go to a blurred or obscured Bramhan which they cannot relate to or understand is putting an obscure cloud between them and the Divine.
FYI: Abrahamic God is Shiv when angry or destructive or quiet, VishNu when sweet, protective or playful, BramhA while He creates the world.
Hinduism takes a mature and realistic approach:
1. Not all people can understand, experience and feel Bramhan directly. Those who can , do so - I told you already, and they are not clubbed as a group - they are individuals who may have started off on one of many paths.
2. So we have to be gentler with the ones who find it easier to relate to a personality closest to Absolute Formess Bramhan that may have unknowns but also has knowns they can focus on and remember.
3. What Aupmanyav ji described is kAmya bhakti -- or a practical approach to different deities for sailing the mortal realm, and not necessarily to transcend it.
These people will go to Saraswati for music/eloquence, Lakshmi for wealth etc. Those mentioned in point 2. above will surrender to One - called their IshTa (favorite or intimate Deity), but also venerate others related to the Deity as their family. e.g. Shiv devotees also worship GaNesh , He is family, and has been given the honor of "The First Worshipped before any worship"
As we go on in life, the same person may switch from 3 to 2 to 1 or be ambivalent depending on circumstances.
|| om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ||
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Further, you cannot truly and honestly 'worship' Bramhan with knowledge, unless you allow yourself to be absorbed by/into Bramhan. You have to give up ego - to live here, you may keep a pure-functional ego, but not struggle or fight for the sake of the ego.
An easy practical peek into knowing Bramhan: Let your chosen Deity show you Their svarUpa (real transcendental nature) , which is Bramhan. As you meditate and see for yourself -- the quiet transcendental being -- this is Bramhan.
Without Deity: Meditate, feel the quiet existence , without thoughts. This is Bramhan.
So walk as Bramhan , talk as Bramhan, eat sleep read -- all activity has to happen in awareness of Bramhan.
Practically, can you be in this state 24 X 7 X rest of your life? Independence, no fear, no one to run to for shelter, in any circumstance,
Only then will you realize truly : I AM Bramhan.
This is the real ultimate teaching of Hinduism. However, it provides with a route full of learning, understanding and devotion before you reach there so you are not lost. On the route, you are taught respect, honor, non-judgement, duty, calling, a good clear conscience ....
Be still and know that I AM Bramhan.
When you are Bramhan, You are no longer TWO.
First we were TWO
Then I was TWO-in-ONE
Then I was ONE with a promise to go back to TWO-in-ONE whenever it is nicer to be TWO, and acknowledge the many within the ONE.
An easy practical peek into knowing Bramhan: Let your chosen Deity show you Their svarUpa (real transcendental nature) , which is Bramhan. As you meditate and see for yourself -- the quiet transcendental being -- this is Bramhan.
Without Deity: Meditate, feel the quiet existence , without thoughts. This is Bramhan.
So walk as Bramhan , talk as Bramhan, eat sleep read -- all activity has to happen in awareness of Bramhan.
Practically, can you be in this state 24 X 7 X rest of your life? Independence, no fear, no one to run to for shelter, in any circumstance,
Only then will you realize truly : I AM Bramhan.
This is the real ultimate teaching of Hinduism. However, it provides with a route full of learning, understanding and devotion before you reach there so you are not lost. On the route, you are taught respect, honor, non-judgement, duty, calling, a good clear conscience ....
Be still and know that I AM Bramhan.
When you are Bramhan, You are no longer TWO.
First we were TWO
Then I was TWO-in-ONE
Then I was ONE with a promise to go back to TWO-in-ONE whenever it is nicer to be TWO, and acknowledge the many within the ONE.
Is that not due to personal sanskara, personal preferences ....?
Here, this video may be of use to you.
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Well I can. But you are right, different places give different vibrations. Which is okay too. Some like to eat a buffet, others want their favourite meal. (Okay I have to start eating before I post on RF
)But for some their religion is not just a religion, it is a way of life, it is family and ancestral pride. Having said that, the ability is still there to have the cake and eat it too. I mean I know many "converted" Hindus who are still Hindu, they just happen to incorporate Catholic or Christian practices. Which probably helped Hinduism survive multiple invasions as it were, if you think about it. Though even these converts see God as we Dharmics perceive Him and not like their Abrahamic brethren.
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I'm not sure. I don't think so, but could be. Sometimes energy comes unbidden in the most unexpected places, or from unexpected Gods. You just never know. It's like saying 'Surprise me!'
From my very limited experience. it seems to me that is individualistic. I've met Kerala Christians who are more afraid of God than your average God-fearing American fundy. But also I've met a couple of Tamil 'Christians' who come to temple regularly.
Well individuals will be......individual I guess.
because the all(plural) is representative of the All(singular), All in all, or ehyeh asher ehyeh, ahmi yat ahmi, tat tvam asi, ahea ashur ahea, nuk pu nuk.
the Absolute cannot be divided against it's parts.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Well, I do not need any God, so I have Brahman, the whole of universe including Vinayaka, Kirran, Some Random, Duvduv and myself, Satyamevajayanti too, a perfectly valid position in Hinduism. Why should I hanker after a Supreme God (or Goddess) who is just as imaginary as the multitude of Gods and Goddesses? @duvduv , do you have any proof better than those for his existence which I have come across? The books said:
Ayamatma Brahman: This self is Brahman.
Tat Twam Asi: That is what you are.
Sarvam Khalvidm Brahma: All things here, are Brahman.
Ayamatma Brahman: This self is Brahman.
Tat Twam Asi: That is what you are.
Sarvam Khalvidm Brahma: All things here, are Brahman.
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Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
Namaste,
My humble contribution.
Yajurveda 40.1:
The Devata (subject matter) for the Yajus Mantra is “Atma, or the “Self”, therefore the context in which “Isha”, is to be understood is not an external God but the all-pervading Atman.
This Mantra is in first person, here is an old oriental translation:
1. I WAS the first possessor of all precious gear: the wealth of every man I win and gather up. On me as on a Father living creatures call; I deal enjoyment to tho. man who offers gifts.
Old orientalist translation reads:
Indra am I, none ever wins my wealth from me never at any time am I a thrall to death. Pressing the Soma, ask riches from me alone: ye, Purus, in my friendship shall not suffer harm.
The Devta is Indra Vaikuntha, and this is what the last Mantra of this sukta (10.48) says:
11- I, as a God, ne'er violate the statutes of Gods, of Vasus, Rudriyas, Adityas. These Gods have formed me for auspicious vigour, unconquered and invincible for ever.
Here the word “Devta”, is translated as gods, but I do not agree with this translation, the right word for Devta would be in this context “Giver”,
Old Translation:
I HAVE enriched the singer with surpassing wealth; I have allowed the holy hymn to strengthen me.I, furtherer of him who offers sacrifice, have conquered in each fight the men who worship not.
And in the vary next Mantra:
10-49-2
The People of the heavens, the waters, and the earth have stablished me among the Gods with Indra's name. I took unto myself the two swift vigorous Bays that speed on divers’ paths, and the fierce bolt for strength.
This (like the other translations) sound like Arya Samaj translations, and I have always been fond of the Aryas for keeping the translations theistic and varied through the years.
In Tulsi Ram (Arya Samaj Translator) has a different version, I have noticed that there is no “He Alone deserves to be worshiped”, line: He ends with “we worship the same one lord and offer him homage with libations of fragrant materials”.
Unfortunately, I have misplaced my Atharva Veda Translations, and the PDF version I have is inconsistent and hard to navigate.
Tulsi Ram’s Translation:
Devta is ParamAtman, and SvyamBhu Brahma is the Risi, we have to mention this to know the context of the Mantras.
I am Glad you mentioned this Mantra, here is an instance of re-birth or Multiple births of the Atman, and final merger/union with the Paramatman mentioned.
Loosely it goes as such: Having known and crossed all material existence, having gone to the regions of all the world, through all directions and sub directions, reaching the foremost source of existence, the “self”, endowed with knowledge attains and merges and becomes One with “It”, in union.
Now the Vedas are not really expressing “Monotheism”, at least not in the way we understand it.
Its much deeper then that- here are some Mantras from the Vedas to help you understand.
That (Supreme Being) is Agni; that is the sun; that is the wind; that is the moon; that is light; that is Brahman; and that is Prajapati. Madhyandina Yajurveda 32.1
They call Him Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni, and he is the Divine good winged bird (the sun with beautiful rays). The sages describe one and the same Divine Being in various ways and call it Agni, Yama and Matarisvan. Rigveda 1.164.46
Having omnipresent eyes, faces, arms and feet, God alone welds together with his arms and rays the various elements of the Universe. Rigveda 10.81.3
He is our Father, Creator and Ordained knows all the places and all creatures. He alone is the name giver of the gods. The other beings approach him to enquire about Him. Rigveda 10.82.3
That Supreme Power is more exalted than the Heaven, the Earth and is superior to the powerful deities. What was that which the waters received as the first germ of creation and at which all the deities looked together? Rigveda 10.82.5
Now in order to get a grasp on these, we have to get to the Upanishads, here is one Upanishad of the Vedas that kind of provides us with an explanation regarding the “Monotheism”, of the Vedas.
There are, no doubt, two forms of Brahman- one having a form and the other formless. The Mortal and the immortal. The stationary and the moving. The discernible and the indiscernible. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 2.3.1
This is quite different type of Monotheism, its not really Monotheism where God is separate from Creation, nor is the Atman or the self separate.
Hope this helps
Dhayavad