Hindu Mythology

[stvdv]

For instance, who can really describe feelings in words?

That is a great example to explain to Atheists why god can't be understood/experienced if others explain it to you

 

[Samael_Khan]

That is a great example to explain to Atheists why god can't be understood/experienced if others explain it to you

Depends on the religion. Christians would say such a thing but yet try to prove that God exists. I don't know of any Sunni muslims who have experienced Allah.

 

[Marcion]

Who is Lord Shiva? I only know about the god Shiva who is part of the Trimurti.

That depends who you ask. According to P.R. Sarkar Lord Shiva was a tantric Guru who lived in India over 7000 years ago and who reformed and modernized tantra for that primitive age. He also gave the marriage system where men promise to stay loyal to their family (wife and offspring) and he taught a system of medicine and elevated the arts of dance and music. He also put an end to tribal warfare (tribes attacking each other from their hill tops and kidnapping the women).

To his followers Shiva was God (Bhagavan) because (like Krishna) he commanded all the bhags (occult powers) and was a fully realised Guru by birth (he had no spiritual teacher).
7000 years is a very long time so of course Shiva and his relatives were heavily mythologized and his teachings were largely forgotten.
The vedic Hindus took some time but they also eventually had to accept the divinity of Shiva and accepted Him as God.

 

[Samael_Khan]

That depends who you ask. According to P.R. Sarkar Lord Shiva was a tantric Guru who lived in India over 7000 years ago and who reformed tantra for that primitive age. He also gave the marriage system where men promise to stay loyal to their family (wife and offspring) and he taught a system of medicine and elevated the arts of dance and music.

To his followers Shiva was God (Bhagavan) because (like Krishna) he commanded all the bhags (occult powers) and was a Guru by birth (he had no spiritual teacher).
7000 years is a very long time so of course Shiva and his relatives were heavily mythologized and his teachings were largely forgotten.
The vedic Hindus took some time but they also eventually had to accept the divinity of Shiva and accepted Him as God.

That is fascinating, thanks.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I have just started reading a book published by Penguin Classics called Hindu Myths. It is translated and put together by Wendy Doniger who has compiled all her favourite stories together.

I have finished the first section about Prajapati and Brahma and the different variations of the creation myths in the different source materials, the Rg Veda, the Brahmanas and Upanisads, Mahabharata and Puranas.

So, I must say that I am confused! I have just figured out that Prajapati and Brahma are the same being and that Agni the god of fire which was the first creation to come from Brahma, and since fire is essential to sacrifice in order to maintain cosmic order, my understanding is that sacrifice essentially was the first creation, so universal order is the most important aspect in Hindu philosophy.

Then I read another story about the first man, Manu (I think) who had 1000 eyes, 100 hands, and 1000 feet, who was split apart in order to be the foundation of creation.

And then there is the incest, which to me seems to me to say that the sky is father of the earth, his daughter, and they had sex and his semen spilled on the ground which created everything, which I understand to be the rain falling to earth to create primordial life.

My question is: what are the purpose of Hindu myths? Is it supposed to tell a coherent truth or is it largely to make one think? I understand that the different stories are the result of different local tribes coming up with stories? I also find polytheistic religions to be highly metaphorical and creative. Is that the point? Is it to get us to think of universal truths rather than specific deities?

Your post needs a few comments. This is a long read, but I hope you will find it interesting. Here they are:

1. Wendy Doniger is not the right person to talk about Hindu mythology. She was a good researcher but later on has taken an anti-Hindu view, seeing sex everywhere.

2. Prajapati and Brahma are not the same Gods. Prajapati was the Aryan Chief God at one time. The history of the belief is older than 5000 years. Brahma is a Puranic God, that is later than 1000 BCE, which arose after the assimilation of Aryans in the indigenous society.

3. Worship of Fire-God, Agni, is Aryan and is much older than the concept of Puranic concept of Brahma. RigVeda mentions that Agni 'Agon' was brought to the humans by Sage Atharvan (Avesta Athravan) Atar, Atish.

Hindu Time-Keeping (Don't get afraid of large numbers)

4. A Manvantara lasts 306,720,000 years and repeats seventy-one Yuga Cycles (four ages). Each cycle lasts for 4,320,000 years. Kaliyuga, the last, extends for 432,000 years. We are currently in the Kaliyuga (of the Seventh manvantara) of which 5,122 years have passed and it has 426,878 more years to go as of 2021 CE. The current Kaliyuga started with the conclusion of the Krishna Avatara and end with the Kalki Avatara according to some in Hinduism.

5. A bigger unit, Kalpa (a day of Brahma), which lasts for 4.32 billion years. There are a total of fourteen manvantaras, where each is followed by and the first preceded by a manvantara-sandhya (dusk) with each sandhya (the time-gap between two Manvantaras) lasting for 1,728,000 years (the duration of the first Yuga, i.e., Satya Yuga, the divine age). Each Kalpa is followed by a pralaya (smaller dissolution) of equal length (i.e., 4.32 billion years). That is a night for Brahma.

6. And Brahma lives for a 100 years, that means some 365 Kalpas and 365 Sandhyas (a night of Brahma)). After that will come a 'maha pralaya' (Great dissolution). After which a new universe is created and gets its new Brahma.

7. So where are we? Manu is not the only first man. They arise in all Manvantara and according to Hindu mythology, there has already been 706 Manvanataras and the current one is the 7th. So, there have already been 707 Manus, the current one being 'Manu Vaivasvata'.The current Brahma is in his 51st year in his middle age, 50 Kalpas have gone by. Which means that 50 x 14 = 700 Manvantaras + 6 of current Kalpa have gone by.

8. Manus never had '1000 eyes, 100 hands, and 1000 feet, who was split apart in order to be the foundation of creation'. They were and the current one is just like us. You are confusing Manu with 'Purusha' of a RigVedic hymn. The 'Purusha Sukta', sure is a metaphorical hymn of which I still have to understand the meaning.

9. Yes, there is an incest attempt story in RigVeda which concerns Prajapati. This story is some 4,500 years old. It was actually an astronomical event connected with seasons, time for rituals, caused by precession of equinox, which caused the Aryans to push back the beginning of the year by a month. Aryans kept their year beginning by noting the Asterism in which the sun arose on the day of vernal equinox. This was the time when the day of beginning of the year was changed from the asterism of Orion to that of Pleiades. This was also the time when the worship of Prajapati waned and the authority of Indra was established.

10. Mostly, the myths are like half forgotten dreams where the gaps are filled in time. That is why there can be more than one version of a myth. The arise out of some historical and geographical event. Other myths are purposely created to teach ethics and morality to the society. I do not think, Hindu myths are overly metaphorical.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The meaning for me is that if the Lord is your guide and your path is determined by Him, you will be going in the right direction.

That is not the meaning for me since I am an atheist. My meaning of Gita is to analyze a situation, not to go by emotions (Arjuna was emotional since he was to fight his cousins), and then engage is the right action irrespective of any other thing.

"sukha-duḥkhe same kṛitvā, lābha alābhau jaya ajayau;
tato yuddhāya yujyasva, naivaṁ pāpam avāpsyasi." BG 2.38

"Taking happiness or sorrow, propfit or loss, wins or defeats as the same, engage in the war (because that is your duty at the moment), by doing so you shall never incur sin.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So then those who worship symbolically still believe that an actual god exists? It sounds to me as if symbolic worshipers are actually monotheist if that is the case.

In polytheistic Hinduism, there are 12 chief Gods and Goddesses as per my curent count: Shiva/Parvati, Vishnu/Lakshmi, Rama/Sita, Krishna/Radha or Rukmani, Ganesha and Kartikeya (Vinayaka's Murugan) each with his two spouses, Saraswati and Hanuman. I do not think there are any true monotheists in Hinduism. While having a chosen God or Goddess, Hindus will acknowledge many Gods and Goddesses.

That is a great example to explain to Atheists why god can't be understood/experienced if others explain it to you

Well, no other person has been able to explain God to me nor I have understood/experienced any God after becoming an atheist (for half my life I was a theist).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ahh. So people tried to do what some Christians do, twist the text to support their anti social tendencies. Reminds me of the Thuggee death cult (from which we get the word "Thug"), who claimed to be children of Kali, who used to rob and kill people in the name of Kali. (ironically many of these people turned out to be muslim). They believed that their brutal actions would save mankind, otherwise Kali would destroy the world.

Yeah, thugs, robbers and thieves, whether Hindu or Muslim, used to worship Mother Goddess. In the tiger-infested Sundarban delta opf Bengal, Hindu and Muslims alike used to and still worship Bonodevi (the Goddess of the forest) to save them from tiger attacks.

Bonbibi and her Muslim attendant.
Bonodevi Bonbibi in bengal - Google Search