hindu women

[Poeticus]

Ratikala,

Take a very close look at the following:

Now, take a look at the following:

But, take a closer look at this one:

Do you know the origins of the Purdah?

And, I respect your right to have the opinion that you do, obviously. But, that is not what I am addressing. I am questioning the logic behind you calling her immodest. The Hindu shāstra-s say that she is in the fine and is being modest.

And, I am not overreacting. In fact, I saw the following as a little over the top:

No , No , ...these are not hindu women either , ... hindu women are looking for god , but these ones here they are loudly proclaiming ...''its all about the money ..CASH !''

this has nothing what to do with hindu women

Ratikala, this is not Islam. Clothing does not correlate with devotion or modesty - there is no such pramAna in the foundational shAstra-s as far as I know. Priyanka Chopra is Hindu. Either way, she's laughing all the way to the bank, and since she is of the Vaishya Varna - it's her duty to make money. How can you, as a Hindu, be against her making money when it's her duty by Varnā-shrama? It doesn't matter what her level of commitment is. There is no shAstric pramAna that has a hierarchy regarding expressions of commitment. She's Hindu. And, she's a wonderful Hindu.

 

[ratikala]

Ratikala,

Take a very close look at the following:

yes she is showing her brests ,..... I have allready told you I have no objection to that .

Now, take a look at the following:

yes here she is decently covered

But, take a closer look at this one:

Do you know the origins of the Purdah?

now please dont be so extreme I am not suggesting that she live in seclusion .

And, I respect your right to have the opinion that you do, obviously. But, that is not what I am addressing. I am questioning the logic behind you calling her immodest. The Hindu shāstra-s say that she is in the fine and is being modest.

It is the style of dress combined with the ACTION'S portrayed in the video which I find imodest , Ok so she behaves better off screen that is a releif , but realy it is the actions that I think are most degrading .

And, I am not overreacting. In fact, I saw the following as a little over the top: Originally Posted by ratikala

No , No , ...these are not hindu women either , ... hindu women are looking for god , but these ones here they are loudly proclaiming ...''its all about the money ..CASH !''

this has nothing what to do with hindu women

so now you are missing bits out .....

actualy I said that I thought this was funny but no , ... you want to edit my words and take offence ....

Ok now this one was realy funny , .....'' I am hotter than the tropics , lets go to rio ''

No , No , ...these are not hindu women either , ... hindu women are looking for god , but these ones here they are loudly proclaiming ...''its all about the money ..CASH !''

I am simply saying that the empasis is not hindu it is simply crass seduction and badly done at that , you even agreed that it was not a good song .

Ratikala, this is not Islam. Clothing does not correlate with devotion or modesty - there is no such pramAna in the foundational shAstra-s as far as I know. Priyanka Chopra is Hindu. Either way, she's laughing all the way to the bank, and since she is of the Vaishya Varna - it's her duty to make money. How can you, as a Hindu, be against her making money when it's her duty by Varnā-shrama? It doesn't matter what her level of commitment is. There is no shAstric pramAna that has a hierarchy regarding expressions of commitment. She's Hindu. And, she's a wonderful Hindu.

OK can she please please make money with out all the pathetic bump and grind ?
please ?

am vaisnava , to a vaisnava the ideal woman in every respect is Mother Sita .

 

[ratikala]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] just wonder what you think of this ?



Hindu ideals versus Western ideals

By Swami Shivananda, Divine Life Society, Rishikesh
In the West the wife governs the home.
In an Indian home it is the mother who controls.
In the West the woman is wife. In India she is the mother. The mother is worshipped as the goddess Lakshmi (Goddess of prosperity) of the house. The Sruti (Taittiriya Upanishad) emphatically declares: "Matru Devo Bhava" (Let thy mother be thy God)."
In the West the wife governs the home. In an Indian home it is the mother who controls. In the West the mother has to be subordinate to the wife. In India the wife has to be subordinate to the mother.
If a woman is pure she can save and purify man. She can purify the race. She can make a home a sacred temple. Hindu women have been the custodians of the Hindu race. Hindu religion and civilisation still survive in spite of the many foreign invasions. Other civilisations have come and gone, but only Hindu civilisation has survived on account of the purity of Hindu women. The women are taught to regard chastity as their most priceless possession, and the loss of it equal to the eternal damnation of their soul. From their very childhood religion is ingrained in Hindu women. As such they illumine and enliven the home through the glory of their purity. This is the secret of the endurance of the Hindu religion, civilisation and culture.
That home is a miserable place, a veritable hell on earth wherein the husband moves up in spirituality and the wife pulls him down into sensual grooves, and vice versa. Both should be harmoniously blended or joined by the sacred thread of self-knowledge, each aspiring eagerly for God-consciousness. That home really is heaven where the husband and wife lead an ideal divine life, singing the Lord’s name, repeating His mantra, studying sacred scriptures, controlling the senses and serving devotees and renunciates.
[/FONT]

 

[ratikala]

and this ?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]We continue below with Swami Shivananda’s writings on the vital role of women as the builders of nations:
The performance of domestic duties, the management of her household, the rearing of children, the economising of the family means- these are a woman’s proper office. She is already endowed with divine power. She already governs the world by her power of gentle love and affection. To make noble citizens by training her children, and to form the character of the whole human race is undoubtedly a power far greater than that which a woman could hope to exercise as a voter or a law-maker, as a president, minister or judge.
The mother's impressions strike deep root in the brain of the foetus that dwells in the womb. If the pregnant woman does Japa (repetition of Lord's name with or without rosary) and Kirtan (Singing the Lord's glories), if she studies religious books and leads a pious life during pregnancy, the foetus is endowed with spiritual inclination or spiritual tendency.
A woman’s natural sphere of activity is the home, where she can prove most helpful to man, because she is the most adored. She can be patriotic by living in a simple homestead, bringing forth noble, cultured citizens, politicians, warriors and saints.
In the West babies are born and brought up in nursery schools and maternity homes. They do not know the health giving, affectionate, tender and soul-expanding caresses of their mothers. They do not know what it is to sleep in the warm embrace of a loving mother. Brought up in the atmosphere of bargain and economics, they develop even in their teens, an unceasing devotion to the dollar and mammon.
The social atmosphere in the West is overcharged with sex. Early marriages may be rare in the West but not early sex-indulgence. There cannot be real love between the parties. Marriage becomes a contract, not a sacrament. Hence there are countless divorces.
India recognises the ideal of motherhood as the highest for a woman. There is so much talk in the West about the emancipation of women. Scrutinise her closely and you will find her a slave of appetites, fashions, and the dollar. In our Vedic period women enjoyed an honourable and exalted position. They occupy a high position now also. The object of marriage is mutual happiness of the parties, the raising of children, and worship and service of the Lord.
Coming to the forefront in blazing daylight is certainly not the test or criterion of the true greatness of a woman.
The happiness for a woman lies not in catering for carnal passions, not in challenging man in his own field by forgetting her natural course of duties, but in leading the ideal life as taught in the sacred scriptures; the crowning glory of womanhood. Then alone will woman be restored to the original dignity of the Universal Mother, which she is to every Indian now.






[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]this was writen early 1900s ?




what is she now in india ?

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]

 

[Poeticus]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica] just wonder what you think of this ?



Hindu ideals versus Western ideals

By Swami Shivananda, Divine Life Society, Rishikesh
In the West the wife governs the home.
In an Indian home it is the mother who controls.
In the West the woman is wife. In India she is the mother. The mother is worshipped as the goddess Lakshmi (Goddess of prosperity) of the house. The Sruti (Taittiriya Upanishad) emphatically declares: "Matru Devo Bhava" (Let thy mother be thy God)."
In the West the wife governs the home. In an Indian home it is the mother who controls. In the West the mother has to be subordinate to the wife. In India the wife has to be subordinate to the mother.
If a woman is pure she can save and purify man. She can purify the race. She can make a home a sacred temple. Hindu women have been the custodians of the Hindu race. Hindu religion and civilisation still survive in spite of the many foreign invasions. Other civilisations have come and gone, but only Hindu civilisation has survived on account of the purity of Hindu women. The women are taught to regard chastity as their most priceless possession, and the loss of it equal to the eternal damnation of their soul. From their very childhood religion is ingrained in Hindu women. As such they illumine and enliven the home through the glory of their purity. This is the secret of the endurance of the Hindu religion, civilisation and culture.
That home is a miserable place, a veritable hell on earth wherein the husband moves up in spirituality and the wife pulls him down into sensual grooves, and vice versa. Both should be harmoniously blended or joined by the sacred thread of self-knowledge, each aspiring eagerly for God-consciousness. That home really is heaven where the husband and wife lead an ideal divine life, singing the Lord’s name, repeating His mantra, studying sacred scriptures, controlling the senses and serving devotees and renunciates.
[/FONT]

and this ?

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]We continue below with Swami Shivananda’s writings on the vital role of women as the builders of nations:
The performance of domestic duties, the management of her household, the rearing of children, the economising of the family means- these are a woman’s proper office. She is already endowed with divine power. She already governs the world by her power of gentle love and affection. To make noble citizens by training her children, and to form the character of the whole human race is undoubtedly a power far greater than that which a woman could hope to exercise as a voter or a law-maker, as a president, minister or judge.
The mother's impressions strike deep root in the brain of the foetus that dwells in the womb. If the pregnant woman does Japa (repetition of Lord's name with or without rosary) and Kirtan (Singing the Lord's glories), if she studies religious books and leads a pious life during pregnancy, the foetus is endowed with spiritual inclination or spiritual tendency.
A woman’s natural sphere of activity is the home, where she can prove most helpful to man, because she is the most adored. She can be patriotic by living in a simple homestead, bringing forth noble, cultured citizens, politicians, warriors and saints.
In the West babies are born and brought up in nursery schools and maternity homes. They do not know the health giving, affectionate, tender and soul-expanding caresses of their mothers. They do not know what it is to sleep in the warm embrace of a loving mother. Brought up in the atmosphere of bargain and economics, they develop even in their teens, an unceasing devotion to the dollar and mammon.
The social atmosphere in the West is overcharged with sex. Early marriages may be rare in the West but not early sex-indulgence. There cannot be real love between the parties. Marriage becomes a contract, not a sacrament. Hence there are countless divorces.
India recognises the ideal of motherhood as the highest for a woman. There is so much talk in the West about the emancipation of women. Scrutinise her closely and you will find her a slave of appetites, fashions, and the dollar. In our Vedic period women enjoyed an honourable and exalted position. They occupy a high position now also. The object of marriage is mutual happiness of the parties, the raising of children, and worship and service of the Lord.
Coming to the forefront in blazing daylight is certainly not the test or criterion of the true greatness of a woman.
The happiness for a woman lies not in catering for carnal passions, not in challenging man in his own field by forgetting her natural course of duties, but in leading the ideal life as taught in the sacred scriptures; the crowning glory of womanhood. Then alone will woman be restored to the original dignity of the Universal Mother, which she is to every Indian now.






[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]this was writen early 1900s ?




what is she now in india ?

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][/FONT]

Ratikala,

1. Shivananda does not speak for the whole Hindu conglomeration.
2. Priyanka is not promiscuous, if that is what you are insinuating.
3. You have given me statements of Shivananda, but not any ShAstric injunction saying that pre-marital intercourse will lead to the damnation of the soul - which seems non-Hindu-like, IMHO.
4. "What is Priyanka now in India?" She's a woman, an ambassador for UNICEF, presumably still a virgin [and not that it matters at all] (the Indian media agrees with me on her still being a virgin - and, nothing gets by the Indian media...nothing, nada, zilch, zippo, nil), she's an actress, she's an entrepreneur, she's a philanthropist, she's a human being, and, most importantly, she is a fellow Hindu.
5. She's Hindu. She's Hindu. She's Hindu. Shivananda, as great as he may be, cannot change Priyanka's Hindu identity. Not even the RigVedic Rishis, which override Shivananda, can alter the fact that she is a Hindu, unless Priyanka, herself, chooses to change her faith.
6. Anyone with enough knowledge regarding Ancient and Classical Indian/Hindu history can confirm the fact that sexuality was more vibrant during the pre-Islamic times of Hindustan. It is easy to see that Shivananda's comments were targeted towards a specific audience - and, these comments did not utilize the full picture of what constituted as liberal sexuality and what did not when it came to Indian society - he paints the picture that sexuality as per Hinduism had always been static, while the facts clearly say otherwise.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The body is evanescent and clothing it is not ordained as law. Let us take a look at what the Rig Veda has to say on the matter of concealing the body unnecessarily:

abhrātéva puṃsá eti pratīcī́
gartārúg iva sanáye dhánānām
jāyéva pátya uśatī́ suvā́sā
uṣā́ hasréva ní riṇīte ápsaḥ (1.124.7)

"She seeketh men, as she who hath no brother, mounting her car, as if it were to gather riches. Dawn, like a loving matron for her husband, smiling and well attired, unmasks her beauty." (1.124.7)

We also notice that it was in the 10th Century AD that the Sari grew to cover the whole body as opposed to concealing various parts of the body partially, coinciding with the early periods of Muslim rule of the Sub-Continent. (Pillai, S. D. (1997). Indian sociology through ghurye, a dictionary. Tardeo, Mumbai: Popular Prakashan Private, Limited.)

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Why must a woman's chastity be unsullied and a man can have a dalliance with whomever he wants and nobody makes a fuss? Why are there no rules for male chastity? Is it because it can't be "proven"? (Even though "proof" for a women is based on a completely erroneous understanding of female anatomy).

The problem I see is equating a woman's clothing or lack thereoff with intrinsic immorality. Judge her actions if you must, but don't equate clothing to behavior. Covered or no, an immoral person is immoral. A naked woman can be chaste and moral or unchaste and moral.

The logic is entirely off, regardless of what scripture says. What has lead to a percieved rise in immorality is humanity's personal baggage about sexuality to being with. Why can a man jog without his shirt on and I can go to jail for doing the same?

The only reason wearing less is perceived as rebellious and sexy is that we've created an environment of shame around nudity. We've placed female "purity" (I hate calling it that) above everything else to the point where she has no value in any other way. Why not value women's intelligence, artistic skill, ingenuity, confidence, generosity? I should think those qualities would shape the world more then what she chooses to do with her body.

:camp:

 

[satyaroop]

you asked for peoples feelings on the subject , ... I gave you my feelings ,

and thank you for that

 

[satyaroop]

there's also the story of annapurna
mahadev and paravathi had a conversation, mahadev said the world is an illusion and therefore unnecessary
parvathi disagreed and left
the world then starved for mother nature was gone
mahadev realised his error
and parvathi returned as annapurna
annapurna the nourisher, signifying the importance of satisfying your appetite for worldly pleasures

if I have bored anyone with the above, here's another babe
[youtube]-_2gW3zwMMQ[/youtube]
Chaiyya Chaiyya - YouTube

 

[satyaroop]

Why can a man jog without his shirt on and I can go to jail for doing the same?

I wish more more women would think like this
come on ladies, take off your clothes !
now!!!
:run:

 

[satyaroop]

I wish more more women would think like this
come on ladies, take off your clothes !
now!!!
:run:

the above was meant to be funny and not offensive.

a pious woman (or man) radiates another kind of beauty, a far greater beauty, and that beauty is also appreciated.

 

[ratikala]

if I have bored anyone with the above, here's another babe
[youtube]-_2gW3zwMMQ[/youtube]
Chaiyya Chaiyya - YouTube

thank you that cheared me up ,

chaiyya is shadow , and allthough whilst walking in the shadow of worldly love one might experience a temporary heaven , if one walks in the shadow of god the love that develops there is eternal .

plese remember this song took its inspiration from Bulleh Shah's ''Thaiyya Thaiyya''
which is reflecting on divine love

we were born to experience love , not lust ,
but first a man must go through lust to realise that it is not love .

you have shown your position here by calling this woman a ''babe''

there is more to this song than just a hot body ,...

CHAIYYA CHAIYYA

Chorus:
jinke sar ho ishq kii chha.nh He whose head is in the shadow of love
pao.n ke niiche jannat hogi will have heaven beneath his feet.
jinke sar ho ishq ki chha.nh Whose head is in the shadow of love...
chal chhaiyya Walk in the shadow.
pao.n jannat chale chal chhaiyyan Walk in heaven, walk in the shadow.
vo yaar hai jo khushbuu kii tarah There's a friend who is like a sweet fragrance,
jiskii zabaan Urdu kii tarah whose words are like poetry (lit. Urdu, the language of poetry),
merii shaam raat merii qainaat who is my evening, my night, my existence.
vo yaar mera saiyya saiyya That friend is my beloved!
Chorus
gulposh kabhii itarae kahii.n Sometimes (my beloved) flirts like a flower,
mahake to nazar aa jaa'e kahii.n so fragrantly that you may see her scent.
taawiiz banake pahanuu.n use Having made it into an charm, I will wear it.
aayat kii tarah mil jaaye kahin She shall be obtained as a miracle is obtained.
mera nagama vahii.n mera qalama vahii.n She is my song, my declaration of faith
(kalama: the Muslim confession of faith, as in, "la ilaaha il allaah" - "there is no God but Allah"). (vo yaar hai jo imaam ki tarah) (My friend is like a priest to me.)
mera nagama nagama mera qalama qalama My song... my declaration of faith...
yaar misale.n os chale She moves like the dew.
paon ke tale phirdaus chale She walks with the garden of heaven beneath her feet, kabhii Daal Daal kabhii paat paat sometimes through the branches, sometimes amidst the leaves.
mai.n hawa pe DHuu.nDHuu.n us ke nishaan I shall search the wind for her trail! Chorus
mai.n uske ruup ka sedaaii I trade in her beauty.
vo dhuup chhaa.nho.n sa harjaaii Fickle, she flits shamelessly from sun to shade.
vo shokh ra.ng badalta hai She changes her bright colors;
mai.n ra.ng ruup ka saudaaii I negotiate that as well.
Chorus

​

​

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram :namaste

Ratikala,

1. Shivananda does not speak for the whole Hindu conglomeration.

I asked you what you thought of what was said ? ....not who said it

2. Priyanka is not promiscuous, if that is what you are insinuating.

I am not attacking Priyanka , I am passing coment on the role she is playing in the vidio clip ..... she is an actress yes ? ...she is acting a part , it is the person she portrays in the part that I am commenting on not her in person .

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

if I have bored anyone with the above, here's another babe
[youtube]-_2gW3zwMMQ[/youtube]
Chaiyya Chaiyya - YouTube

This is called a woman, for your information. Not a "babe". It is insulting.

Aum Namah Sivaya

 

[satyaroop]

you have shown your position here by calling this woman a ''babe''

This is called a woman, for your information. Not a "babe". It is insulting.

if I say that a particular woman is a babe, it means that I find that woman physically attractive
is it wrong for me to say so?

this is why the thread was created, to discuss this sort of narrow-minded mentality which has become a part of hinduism

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam,

this sort of narrow-minded mentality which has become a part of hinduism

Don't get me wrong: I have no problem with beautiful womens and bare breasted womens at ALL. I find many womens attractive too you know ? This is not an exclusive man trait to find good curves and faces cute and attractive. So, for me, this is not a narrow minded mentality problem. My mentality is fine, thanks for asking.

is it wrong for me to say so?

No, absolutely not, you have all the rights to find a woman attractive and to express it !
The problem is how it is said

if I say that a particular woman is a babe, it means that I find that woman physically attractive

The way that it is said is not the correct one. Any normal woman you find attractive won't appreciate being called a babe.

Let's imagine this situation:

> You find a woman attractive [There is nothing wrong with that]
> You want to tell your female friends that you find this woman attractive [again, all yours]

A. You tell them: "Look how hot is this sugar babe, mh, nice chick look at this booty han yeah *wink wink*"
B. You tell them "Look how beautiful/attractive/nice dressed/whatever she is, I like those kind of womens !"

There is a 99% chance a female you say (A) will be offended and a slight chance she slap you on the face too.

However, there is a 99% chance a female you say (B) will agree with you, or don't care, or laught, or whatever normal social reaction of a non offended person will have.

Of course I exagerrated, it was general examples, I am not accusing you of anything. I just try to show you that the problem is not how this woman is dressed, the problem is not that you find this woman attractive, but the way you say it.
You talk like a "chick babe hot sugar baby" and it is not saying that you find a woman attractive, it's saying that you are consider her in a sexual and inferior way, to say, THAT is no appropriate. For a man, a Hindu, or both.

I hope you get what I mean, again, this is not for me a question of mentality or closed mindness. Like I said, I enjoy beautiful womens. But I don't disrespect them with slang terms.

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[satyaroop]

You talk like a "chick babe hot sugar baby" and it is not saying that you find a woman attractive, it's saying that you are consider her in a sexual and inferior way, to say, THAT is no appropriate. For a man, a Hindu, or both.

I hope you get what I mean, again, this is not for me a question of mentality or closed mindness. Like I said, I enjoy beautiful womens. But I don't disrespect them with slang terms.

"consider her in a sexual and inferior way", you said
Do I find certain women sexy? yes.
Does that mean I find her inferior? no.
does sexy and inferior have to go together?

I'm not disrespecting anyone.
you're acting strange.

 

[satyaroop]

you have shown your position here by calling this woman a ''babe''

post # 11, you called aishwarya rai a babe

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I wish more more women would think like this
come on ladies, take off your clothes !
now!!!
:run:

It's funny actually that you should mention that - in the City of New York it is technically legal for a woman to walk in public topless, and some women are actually doing it now. parents complain of course, but they have no legal recourse. It will take a LONG time for it to become a common thing,for obvious reasons, but it's got to start somewhere. Even I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it because of the stigma attached.

PS. No offense taken

:camp:

 

[Vinayaka]

The ultimate goal of life is moksha, and we do our dharma to the best of our abilities in order to make progress towards the ultimate goal. Attachment to sensual pleasures, wealth, lust, etc. may get in the way, or be a side diversion to this goal. Note that it is the attachment to, not the activity itself. Attachment generally means remnants of experiences remaining within the mind. So one person can go past a bikini clad woman and practically not notice, the japa or the next temple being so strong. Another may allow it to be the starting point for a continuing fantasy. This would depend on the person's training, and will power available to practice the training.

I'm not personally offended by words like 'babe' although I would never use them. I just understand that the individual who uses them is operating from a different POV than I am. My will goes to seeing God within everyone, regardless of gender. So both genders are my friends, brothers, and sisters, and any or all 'love/lust' is directed at my spouse.

As far as modesty goes, there is substantial variance from culture to culture within Hinduism. In South India, you rarely see a head scarf. In the North, it's rare to see a Hindu woman without one.

There is also a great range in 'seriousness about practicing' for lack of a better way to put it. We have the 24-7 variety, and also the occasional variety. Each individual is free to allot whatever amount of time they wish to practice. Therefore, sweeping generalisations simply do not work.

The media, and movie industry isn't based on dharma, it's based on money. They make whatever sells, and the most disposable money is held by a younger crowd. So movies are made for the audience most likely to be be parted from their money. Any individual can choose to not watch movies.

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

The conversations, Ratikala-MV and Satyaroop-JayaBholenath in particular, have highlighted on some core issues and fault lines.

For one thing, I do not foresee the Indian society becoming more liberated any soon in the future because of the Islamic presence and influence being exerted on it; one very good example, discussed here, is the Bollywood culture, which drives from Islamic/ Mughal sensibilities.

Is there a way a society may become freer yet not immoral at the same time? Here far from criticising the West, the US in particular, I think they have made a real headway in this yuga.

How to say it? I will try translating Vedic ideas (that usually come to my brainwashed mind) into plain language.

Vedic : "Indra helps create separate Dyo (Heaven) and Prithvi (Earth) from a seeming chaos. And yet He unites them afterwards, for the sake of flow of Soma." (MV can understand)

Regarding sexuality, and movie business in particular, therefore, the "acting" part should be separated from the "sex" part: by creating the mainstream cinema and the porn industry. Each of them is hereafter received with respect, for their professionalism as well as their content, nothing wrong- everything is right with it.

After certain time, these two are again united in some way (without losing their distinct individuality). This is the final evolution. Evolution, for both the profession, and the viewership and masses at large.

Again, I must say these things are not possible in India in centuries to come, due to Islamic presence, which promotes titilllation in the name of intertainment.

And surely, by sexuality I mean both: male and female.

pranām