hindu women

[ratikala]

post # 11, you called aishwarya rai a babe

no I rather sarcasticaly called the belly dancing troup in the background babes because that is How they are allowing them selves to be portried ,
which I think you gathered is not how I belive women should be seen or how women should portray them selves , even in the guise of comedy .

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram :namaste

The ultimate goal of life is moksha, and we do our dharma to the best of our abilities in order to make progress towards the ultimate goal. Attachment to sensual pleasures, wealth, lust, etc. may get in the way, or be a side diversion to this goal. Note that it is the attachment to, not the activity itself.

jai jai , thank you prabhu ji , ''the ultimate goal of life is moksha'' :namaste

yes , sure the young want to enjoy them selves this is fine , but life can be enjoyable without engaging in lust as lust it self only agravates more lust . one can lust after money , position , atention and of course the bodys of others but this only forms negative attatchments .

vinayaka ji says clearly that we should be looking to see the divine in all beings , but untill we can do that we are taught to give respects to a female as either a sister or a mother and likewise a woman should respect a man as either a brother or a father , this way we avoid lustfullnes

even when a man takes a wife it is better to focus on love and respect than it is to focus on lust as lust is seldom satisfied and eventualy leads to discontent .

and as desire is a natural responce and is difficult to curb , we should try to refine lust and transform it to a higher emotion .

The media, and movie industry isn't based on dharma, it's based on money. They make whatever sells,

and the way it has gone in recent years ...in order to continue selling they will play on our emotions and if possible increase our desire , thus securing their own sucess , ....they will seduce by any means as long as they can grab your attention they will get your money , .... unfortunately there is less and less artistic or poetic content and beauty has been traded for sensationalism , but as the change is gradual we dont notice it happening nor do we notice how our minds are conditioned by it , and how society is shaped by it .

 

[Vinayaka]

but as the change is gradual we dont notice it happening nor do we notice how our minds are conditioned by it , and how society is shaped by it .

Oh, some of us notice. More than we know, I suspect.

 

[ratikala]

Oh, some of us notice. More than we know, I suspect.

I think this is a real problem for the youth , of course it is only natural to get involved in what you see going on arround .

when one gets a little older one learns to step of the roundabout , only then do you realise how fast it is spinning

 

[satyaroop]

Hindu culture traditionally is a modest culture.

how would you counter some of the other points mentioned by Maitraavarunni

Also, one has to keep in mind that the Kamasutra is a Hindu (Sutras) text; and last time I checked, the Khajuraho (Sex Temple) is Hindu as well. Sexual liberation has been a part of Hindu history. Such a wonderful thing cannot be swept under the rug. One only has to look at the Ellora and Ajanta Cave Paintings to notice that the clothing Hindu women wore back then in what is now the modern-day areas such as Maharashtra were much less than the bikinis ... [/FONT][/SIZE]

a few of the RigVedic Rishis were women

this seems to suggest that ancient hindus were not modest in their thinking, but very bold in their thinking

 

[Vinayaka]

how would you counter some of the other points mentioned by Maitraavarunni

I can't. I'm not a scholar.

 

[satyaroop]

I can't. I'm not a scholar.

ok lol

I asked because you made a scholarly claim, you know, saying that you know what hindu tradition is

 

[satyaroop]

no I rather sarcasticaly called the belly dancing troup in the background babes because that is How they are allowing them selves to be portried ,
which I think you gathered is not how I belive women should be seen or how women should portray them selves , even in the guise of comedy .

if the kajra re video is so very inappropriate, what are you thoughts on the khajuraho sculpture

Spoiler: some may be offended, be warned - EROTIC IMAGE

something out of your worst nightmare?

 

[Maya3]

I think it's very slippery territory when we start talking about what any gender should or should not do. Scripturally, I'm sure there are many rules or recommendations for how the genders should behave but they become less and less relevant with every passing year for a multitude of reasons. Gender is no longer as cut and dry as it use to be, for one, and for another I think it's fair to say that most gender specific rules laid out in texts were written by men - wealthy, and/or educated men, which were few and far between in the old days. So in short I think it's silly to automatically live by rules laid out by one small demographic of people centuries ago without first judging their relevance to today. Societies change all the time.

In short, anyone can live however they want regardless of gender. Biological sex aside, gender roles are a social construct.

:camp:

Excellent point.

I also have a problem with the notion that a Hindu should do this or not do this, especially when it is mentioned in the context of what should women do?

Hinduism is about becoming Self Realized. It is an individual choice how much time you want to spend on this in this lifetime. You might have a very strong belief in God, but have another focus such as dance or art in this lifetime as an example.
We also don't know how much time another person spends in deep meditation and service when she/he is not dancing or acting in a movie.

Rules about our behavior discussed by men is insulting.

Why must a woman's chastity be unsullied and a man can have a dalliance with whomever he wants and nobody makes a fuss? Why are there no rules for male chastity? Is it because it can't be "proven"? (Even though "proof" for a women is based on a completely erroneous understanding of female anatomy).

The problem I see is equating a woman's clothing or lack thereoff with intrinsic immorality. Judge her actions if you must, but don't equate clothing to behavior. Covered or no, an immoral person is immoral. A naked woman can be chaste and moral or unchaste and moral.

The logic is entirely off, regardless of what scripture says. What has lead to a percieved rise in immorality is humanity's personal baggage about sexuality to being with. Why can a man jog without his shirt on and I can go to jail for doing the same?

The only reason wearing less is perceived as rebellious and sexy is that we've created an environment of shame around nudity. We've placed female "purity" (I hate calling it that) above everything else to the point where she has no value in any other way. Why not value women's intelligence, artistic skill, ingenuity, confidence, generosity? I should think those qualities would shape the world more then what she chooses to do with her body.

Extremely well put!

Maya

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram satyaroop :namaste

if the kajra re video is so very inappropriate, what are you thoughts on the khajuraho sculpture

Spoiler: some may be offended, be warned - EROTIC IMAGE

something out of your worst nightmare?

hardly it is after all a fact of life , it is how you were created ,
the question here is wether one attatches to it with a lustfull mind or whether one looks on it as as emblematic of the indivisible unity of the ultimate creative force , tibetan tantra which originated in india is equaly full of depictions of union and is commonly accepted to represent the mystical union of wisdom and compassion .

please consider that these adorn temple walls therefore may have some sugnificance deeper than their apparent erotic alure .

 

[satyaroop]

Ratikala
In response to

Also, one has to keep in mind that the Kamasutra is a Hindu (Sutras) text; and last time I checked, the Khajuraho (Sex Temple) is Hindu as well. Sexual liberation has been a part of Hindu history. Such a wonderful thing cannot be swept under the rug. One only has to look at the Ellora and Ajanta Cave Paintings to notice that the clothing Hindu women wore back then in what is now the modern-day areas such as Maharashtra were much less than the bikinis Priyanka wore in that video. What does this tell us? Well, it tells us that the concepts of "modesty" varied throughout the history of Hinduism.

You said

yes everything is wonderfull in its right place , and the differnce as I see it is in satya yuga there was no rape all people where pious and respectfull of onanother , now it is very different our minds are easily distracted .

"Rapes are happening", "minds are easily distracted", you said.
this is the reason why you find bollywood videos of clothed dancing women to be inappropriate
you seem to know what motivates a rapist
In your opinion, how should a woman dress and behave so that she does not fall victim to rapists?
skirts, pants, gloves, sunglasses?

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam

In your opinion, how should a woman dress and behave so that she does not fall victim to rapists?
skirts, pants, gloves, sunglasses?

This is a abrahamic mindset. Control the other. Cover it. Hide it. Condemn it.
This is not Hindu mindset.
Hinduism don't teach to control others, but to control yourself. Desire and lust have to be tamed, Dharma have to be kept in mind in all situations. Hinduism teach us how to get closer to God, not how to justify behaving like animals.
As per the law of nature sexuality is not condemned and desire not controlled. There is no rule and it is chaos.
As per the law of culture and society sexuality is not condemned but desire IS controlled. There are rules and it is order.
Hiding and desguising womens is not a solution to rapes, and it is condemning sexuality, denying the woman of her rank and attribute in the world. Without Sakti, there is no Siva. But everything is NOT permitted. Satyaroop I have personally nothing to be attached of this body, I would be gladly go in any outfit that suits the culture I am in. How much time without being raped would you give me if I was to dress like womens in vedic times ? Do you know that here in India I was victim of sexual harassement wearing perfectly fine clothes, with long sleeves and all ? Should I hide some more ? No. But should I undress pretending to be free from the boundaries of whatever ? No. Because I would be severly raped. Then what should womens do then for you?
Unless people learn to control desire like it is taught since the beginnings of time, then I see no solution.

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[satyaroop]

my question is simple
if Ratikala thinks that bollywood music videos encourages rape, I would like to know what exactly she would like to see curbed in these videos
just a question.

I'm curious because she finds the khajuraho sculpture perfectly natural and acceptable and bollywood music videos to be unacceptable

regarding the khajuraho sculpture she said

the question here is wether one attatches to it with a lustfull mind

why is the same attitude not applied to bolywood music videos?

 

[satyaroop]

here in India I was victim of sexual harassement

I don't know what to say, I'm bad at this
If you were around I would put a comforting hand on your shoulder.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam,

I don't know what to say, I'm bad at this
If you were around I would put a comforting hand on your shoulder.

Thank you but I don't need comfort because Fortunately it didn't go far, and I am strong woman. But let us think of every other womens in India that are way less fortunate than me, everyday the newspapers are full of these terrible stories...They are the ones who need comfort. What is happening is sad and shouldn't be forgotten

Aum Namah Shivaya

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram :namaste

my question is simple
if Ratikala thinks that bollywood music videos encourages rape, I would like to know what exactly she would like to see curbed in these videos
just a question.

dearest prabhu you are most excelent at twisting my words

I said that in satya yuga there was no rape , I did not say that I thought bollywood movies encoraged rape ,

but I will tell you what I do think , that society has become more sexualised .
why has society become more sexualised ?

this is kali yuga everything has become more degraded , our minds are more feeble , we have less taste for dharma , we are easily distracted , and we have become self indulgent .

bollywood is simply reflecting this mind set it is giving people what they want , and because it is popular they give more ,

because peoples minds are feeble they want entertainment , because their minds are not attatched to dharma they have no boundarys , because they have no boundarys anything goes .

Rape happens because there is no attathcment to dharma .

if bollywood had a sence of moral responcibility it would stop churning out so much meaningless entertainment and start to focus on films with a social concience , this is where the conversations before were comenting on bollywood pre 1990 , the few older films that I have watched have a moral thread woven in to the story so at least you have the element of entertainment but there is somthing deeper to reflect upon .
from what you have shown me of the recent films it would appear that these are simply light enetertainment ....the mind needs to be chalenged otherwise it stupifies , if I lived on a diet of songs like the second one you posted my mind would turn to jelly , ... if one is constantly subjected to wrything bodies and inane lyrics one looses all inteligence , one needs examples . bollywood could choose to set those examples .

I'm curious because she finds the khajuraho sculpture perfectly natural and acceptable and bollywood music videos to be unacceptableregarding the khajuraho sculpture she said

the question here is wether one attatches to it with a lustfull mind

why is the same attitude not applied to bolywood music videos?

why ? ...... because I am asking you to think what the difference is between the temple depictions and bollywood movies .......

bollywood is there for your enetertainment , .... a temple what ever it depicts is there for a different purpose .


JayaBholenath has put it very nicely , .....

quote JayaBholenath
Hinduism don't teach to control others, but to control yourself. Desire and lust have to be tamed, Dharma have to be kept in mind in all situations. Hinduism teach us how to get closer to God, not how to justify behaving like animals.
As per the law of nature sexuality is not condemned and desire not controlled. There is no rule and it is chaos.
As per the law of culture and society sexuality is not condemned but desire IS controlled. There are rules and it is order.

bollywood now plays on desire therefore it has a hand in the creation of the ''chaos'' sosiety is experiencing ,

this does not mean that a girl canot dance or canot dress beautifully but it does mean that some boundarys need to be re introduced .

jayabholenath is allso correct to say at the end of the day each person must control their own desires ,

it is not so much about what is shown , but how we are 'encoraged' to perceive it .

 

[Poeticus]

Ratikala,

You might like the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[youtube]Vcci8hv8dCQ[/youtube]

 

[satyaroop]

you are most excelent at twisting my words.....

I'm not twisting your words, only reading in-between the lines
like a hare, you twist and turn while you run in a zig zag manner, taking evasive action

btw, do you still feel that the bollywood music videos are inappropriate, or have you changed your mind
no big deal, just asking because your zig zag movement is confusing

 

[chinu]

how should a hindu woman behave
is there a particular way? or is she free to live here life any way she pleases?

In the ancient time, term "Hindu" was simply used for the people who use to live across river Indus, that's the only difference according to me between a Hindu and any other human on this earth.

And in that sense, the only question remains is; How should a woman behave ? rather than "how should a Hindu women behave". But, if you think there's any other difference between Hindu and Other human, please give me in order to carry on the topic.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram maitra varuni :namaste ji

Ratikala,

You might like the following:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[youtube]Vcci8hv8dCQ[/youtube]

jai jai , excelent :namaste

now I have been watching a film all evening I have no time left to talk to satyaroop