Hinduism according to Advaita

[DeviChaaya]

Indeed it does not, but it does put one at odds with another group saying another deity is supreme, and this was the only point I was making when I said Advaita is not ethnocentric. In principle even a Christian or a Muslim could adopt Advaita and still maintain Jesus and Allah as their chosen deity. Ramakrishhna adopted this idea so he switched his saguna concept to Jesus and Allah and practised living as Christian or a Muslim, and had vision(darsana) of Jesus and Allah. In effect, and it is something I will cover later today when I cover sadhana, in Advaita it really does not matter what religion you are, if you practice your religion with faith and dedication, you too can attain to Saguna Brahman realisation. However, will this also lead to Nirguna Brahman realisation? This is a very good question and I will cover it, because Advaita views on this vary in the community.

I think the whole Ramakrishna had visions of Allah/Jesus thing is overstressed. The Math likes to emphasise that he took up these religions and practice sincerely and had these visions but in order to adopt these religions it requires more than one day of each. I do not think he really had a true understanding of either of them. The Koran is full of vile things and the bible is not much better; the difference between the two is that the followers of one can't leave the 7th century and the followers of the other only left the witch burning because they were dragged kicking and screaming into modernity by the European Renaissance.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Sadhana overview continued

Sadhana basically means practising a means to some goal to attain something. In Dharmic religions that goal is moksha or liberation. Liberation from what? Samsara or the vicious cycle of birth and rebirth. How? Again, the Dharmic religions all agree up until this point, and that is on ignorance being the cause of samsara. What is this ignorance of, this is where each Dharmic religion and sub-schools of Dharmic religions offer differing views, but differing not that considerably either. The overwhelming consensus of all Dharmic religions because ignorance is the root of samsara, the only means to liberation from this vicious cycle is knowledge. Yet what is that knowledge. I am here to give you Advaita's position, not Jainism or Buddhism or Dvaita Vedanta's views. I will however give a very simple and crude summary:

Buddhism: The knowledge of the unreality of forms(empty of all forms) because of their impermanence, this mainly includes the notion of a permanent enduring self.
Jainsim: The knowledge of the limited view of reality(naya-vada) like in the story of the elephant and 5 blind men
Dvaita Vedanta: The knowledge of Ishvara​

Advaita does NOT deny any of these positions, in fact we agree with all of these views, but we simply say there is something higher and that is Brahman which these other schools do not teach you about, not because they are wrong, but because they are interested in things other than Brahman, those things in relative reality. They take you as far as they can and they are very beneficial in the early stages of spiritual development. If we could graphically represent it for you this is how we see various traditions of knowledge:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Superstition...............Charvaka ....Modern science.....Buddhism...Jainism..Dvaita.............Advaita
Total ignorance --------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Total knowledge

Charvaka is definitely better than blind faith, because it emphasises the importance of using your perception to know something and we must be sceptical of just faith. Modern science is better than Charvaka because they use both perception and inference, so can include those things which cannot be perceived, but inferred. Buddhism is better than modern science because it recognises those things which have been perceived and inferred are just impermanent forms whose substantiality is owing to flux(a view now shared by Quantum theory) Jainism is better than Buddhism, because it recognises that reality is both impermanent and permanent and is multifaceted i.e., frm one view it is impermanent but from another permanent. Dvaita Vedanta is better than Jainism because Jainism cannot account for how contradictory views of reality can still cohere perfectly, which can only be explained by Ishvara as the cosmic intelligence that maintains infinite universes. Finally, Advaita is better than Dvaita Vedanta because it it is able to reconcile how jiva, jagat and Ishvara merge into the final absolute.

Advaita position is the knowledge of unreality that jiva, jagat and ishvara are separate and realising through direct experience(anubhava) your Self as Brahman . This is variously called Self-realisation or Brahma realisation. They are interchangable, because realising Brahman is realising the Self and realising the Self is realising Brahman.

Consider Jiva, Jagat and Ishvara as circles next to each other and Brahman as the big circle that includes all: Like this

The fact that there are these three circles, necessitates by axioms of mathematics that there be this big circle that includes them and allows all three circles to interrelate. We thus see Brahman as a logical necessity. I will cover in more detail the logical arguments for why Brahman is an absolute necessity. For now we will just focus on Brahman from the point of view of sadhana.

The Cosmic you/subtle body vs the current you from point of view of sadhana:

In Advaita your sadhana is to attain Brahman. This is the highest goal of existence, you are trying to attain that lord which which is higher than the sum of infinite universes and infinite souls. As I already stressed earlier, it is not going to be easy to attain in one life time. Could you in one lifetime travel to the edge of this observable universe and back? Brahman is as unattainable to you right now, as the moon is to an ape. Thus Brahman is not some small wordly goal, this is a cosmic goal. And Advaita the system of philosophy that provides you the means to get to that goal is thereby a cosmic religion. Hence, because Advaita is a cosmic religion, aims for a cosmic goal, it pertains to the cosmic you that will be around for several cycles of cosmos constantly moving towards the goal. That cosmic you has been around since the beginning of this current cycle of creation, for by the lowest estimates it some 13 billion years. Hence, in recent history of this cosmos, you are a very ancient being.

But the current entity you take yourself to be 'you' is not ancient at all, it is in comparison a blip in the recent time of your cosmic you. In Advaita this part of you is called the gross body. The gross body you have in this life, is born of particular parents, with a name/s, a race, a gender, a life span usually less than 100 years and all your goals in life are centralisd around this body, feeding it, pampering it, adorning it. Thus even when a teaching like Advaita is revealed to a person who gives too much importance to this body, they want to use it to service their body(like Neo-Advaitins)

There is another body that people are generally not aware of because they cannot see it, hence doubt that it exists and that is their subtle body. This subtle body is their real 'I' egoic self, the real actor and thinker which acts through the instruments of the body and it has been there since the beginning of the current cycle of creation.(In fact it is eternal, but goes into an unmanifest state at the end of each creation) It has passed through millions upon millions of such gross bodies, from simple to complex, to get to this human body and then once attaining that human body, it has gone through innumerable incarnations in human bodies to get to the point where you are today.

So understand this point, the journey of the gross body is not a long one. I will explain the gross body, subtle body and relationship between them later. This distinction is the starting point in all Dharmic religions, hence there is a lot of time spent contemplating on them and gaining conviction that the subtle body really exists, as once you are convinced the subtle body is more important, you will give less priority to the gross body. If you are not convinced, your will spend this life time in service of this gross body.

In Advaita we are constantly reminded just how fortunate we are to have attained a human body, not because a human body is the final stage in evolution, because in fact there are many stages beyond(the human body is just an intermediate stage between animal and god) but because a human being is capable of doing sadhana to take control of their own evolution, which is not possible in an animal body. If we act well we can speed it up but if we do not we can slow it down, or even regress. Thus having attained a human body, if it does not do sadhana, it has wasted its life time.

For a soul to even get access to Advaita, to hear about it, is the result of good karma. We are not born with a manual telling us who we are, where we are going, how to get there etc Advaita is that manuel. If one was born into Advaita, they are even more fortunate.

The VC declares in the opening verses itself:

For all living creatures, a human birth is indeed rare; much more
difficult it is to attain full manhood; rarer than this is a Sattvic
attitude in life. Even after gaining all these rare chances, to have
steadfastness on the spiritual path as explained in Vedic literature
is yet rarer; much more so to have a correct understanding of the
deep import of the scriptures. Discrimination between the Real
and the unreal, a personal realization of spiritual Glory and
ultimately to get fully established in the living consciousness that
the Self in me is the Self in all---these come only later on, and
culminate in one‘s liberation. This kind of a perfect liberation
cannot be obtained without the meritorious deeds of many
millions of well-lived lives.

Is there a man who, having somehow obtained this rare human
birth, together with masculine temperament and also a complete
knowledge of the scriptures, is foolish enough not to strive hard
for Self-realisation? One verily commits suicide, clinging to things
unreal.

Is there a greater fool than the person who, having got the rare
chance of a human birth and there too, the masculine qualities of
the head and heart, falls short in his efforts to realize his own
highest good?

Let erudite scholars quote all the scripture, let gods be invoked
through sacrifices, let elaborate rituals be performed, let personal
gods be propitiated---yet, without the realization of one‘s identity
with the Self, there shall be no liberation for the individual, not
even in the life times of a hundred Brahmas put together.
​

Note: Manhood or Masculine temperment here means the development of a rational mind and not literally a male body. In Dharmic religions masculine energy is associated with rationality, clear thinking etc

Hence concludes the Sadhana overview section.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

I think the whole Ramakrishna had visions of Allah/Jesus thing is overstressed. The Math likes to emphasise that he took up these religions and practice sincerely and had these visions but in order to adopt these religions it requires more than one day of each. I do not think he really had a true understanding of either of them. The Koran is full of vile things and the bible is not much better; the difference between the two is that the followers of one can't leave the 7th century and the followers of the other only left the witch burning because they were dragged kicking and screaming into modernity by the European Renaissance.

Hari Om,

We share similar views on Abrahamic religions. However, in Advaita we have a tolerant and accommodating views of other religions, as an elderly wise man would of children, younger adults and those younger than him. In terms of religion Hinduism is like the grandfather of religions. Its origins trace back as far as 10,000 years and perhaps even beyond(if we allow for the possibility of lost civilisations in prehistory) In comparison Abrahamic religions like Christianity and Islam are only 2000 and 1200 years old. Hence, Hinduism has had a long amount of time to mature. Just as we would not condemn children for doing bad things, we should not condemn Abrahamic religions for doing bad things. You will note that even in the Abrahamic religions, later better forms of religion branched out over time like Gnostic Christianity and Sufism, and look at recent history the development of Unitarian Christianity and Bahai etc. You can clearly see that they are maturing with time. When they reach the 10,000 year age they too might be as mature as Hinduism.

We should also not see evil in religion as purely black and white, but again as a spectrum. I can think of religions that have done more evil things than Abrahamic religions, like the ancient Aztec religion which involved mass human sacrifices. There was some evil also in early Hinduism, such as the sacrificial Brahmanical religion of sacrificing animals(purva mimamsa) which to a large extent has been replaced by the Vedanta(uttra mimamsa)

When I cover viveka, I will attempt show you how the development of viveka mirrors different stages of religion.

The point I was making that Saguna Brahman can manifest in any form that the devotee chooses, including Jesus and Allah. There are genuine saints(sadhikas) in the Abrahamic traditions like St Francis of Assisi, several Sufi Saints like Rumi etc that have practised their religion faithfully and attained to certain stages. I will also cover this when I cover the break down of sadhana. Saguna Brahman in Advaita is a tool where the sadhika attempting to get to Nirguna Brahman, uses a concept or an image which they imagine Nirguna Brahman through and when the devotion becomes so strong, they gain a vision of that(ishvara darshana) Ramakrishna had already through his sadhana to Devi Maa attained to ishvara darshana stage. He then was able to show how he could switch to any saguna image and Saguna Brahman could assume that form.

Consider NDE experiences. In NDE experiences the subject experiences their own version of heaven, their own version of God etc e.g Christians see Jesus. The forms that they experience are conditioned by their culture, but the same structures of experience are present in them all. This is not to say that it is a hallucination, rather something real is manifesting in the vision but it is manifesting through the prism of the devotee's mind.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Adikaari

One of the most unique concepts of Advaita is the idea that one must be an adhikaari or a qualified student for the truth of Advaita. This sets Advaita apart from a proselytising or missionary religion looking for souls to harvest, in fact Advaita is the exact opposite, it is very selective about who is allowed initiation. It is based on a list of qualifications.

First I will give you a list of the qualifications, along with the definition directly from the shastras. The qualifications are four

(1)Viveka: The discrimination between the real and unreal, leading to the total conviction that only Brahman is real and everything is unreal and the Self is non-different to Brahman
(2)Vairagaya: The total absence of attachments for all objects, gross sense objects to subtle objects, for objects seen and objects heard about
(3)Sad Sampati: The six-fold inner wealth

Sama: Total Control of mind
Dama: Total Control of senses
Uparati: Total Withdrawl of senses into their respective locus
Titiksha: Total tolerance or forberance for all opposites heat/cold , profit/loss, pain/pleasure
Shradda: Total faith and conviction in the words of scripture and Guru
Samadhanam: Total one-pointed focus or concentration​

(4) Mumukshtva: Total yearning for Brahman​

If these are the qualifications to even begin study of Advaita, then nobody would ever qualify. Therefore, it is not the case that these are beginner qualities; rather these are the qualities which when fully matured lead to the realisation of Self/Brahman. It is similar to the multiple container analogy of Tibetan Buddhism before one becomes a Bodhisattva one must fill up containers each representing a different quality, like compassion etc

Why these qualifications?

Shankara had noted that both in his students and in the previous students of Advaita that not everybody grasped it the same and had varying levels of success, he discovered that the reason for this variance, is because the students themselves had varying aptitude. Think about it, for the study of any subject, says Physics, some have a natural ability for it and go onto win nobel prizes, while others will drop out of high school(viveka) In Sports, some will be able to renounce all bad habits of diet and lifestyle, and go onto win Olympic gold models, while others will give into temptation and not get past school tournaments(vairagaya) In flying a plane, some will have the necessary mental control etc to become pilots, while others will struggle to even drive a car(sad sampaati) In mountain climbing, some will have the burning zeal to get to the top of the highest mountain, others will quit before the half way point(mumukstva)

The same is true for spirituality. Not every seeker is the same. Not everybody reading what I am posting here is going to understand it, and of those who understand it, not everybody is going to apply it, and of those who apply it not everybody is going to have the same level of success. You have varying abilities. Traditionally in Advaita tradition, we would only select the most qualified student, with brilliant mind, strong character, full of virtues and zeal to even reveal the teaching. However, in recent times, the standards have relaxed a bit, partly because of mass media Advaita is available to the masses now. However, this teachings are really only for the genuine seeker.

What is a seeker?

Why are you a seeker what is it that you are seeking? Advaita says there are purursharths or goals of people:

1. Kama: Pleasure, sex, comfort, entertainment and art etc
2. Artha: Wealth, money, power and fame etc
3. Dharma: Career, education, skills, duties etc
4. Moksha: Liberation​

Now lets analyse them.

(1) What are we seeking through pleasure, comfort, sex, entertainment and art etc? The answer is happiness.
(2) Why are we seeking to attain more money, power and fame? The answer is so we can get more pleasure etc, so we can get more happiness
(3) Why do we earn a livelihood and why do we want to develop better skills to progress in our careers? The answer is so we can can get more money etc, and so can get more pleasure etc, so we can get more happiness.
(4) Having tried absolutely everything to get happiness career etc, money etc, pleasure etc that it only gives us temporal and limited happiness. We don't just want a bit of happiness, we want to everlasting happiness.

After this analysis you will come to the conclusion that what you really want is to maximise happiness(sukh prapti) and minimise suffering(dukh nivriti) This is not only true for you, this is true for the tiniest creature down to a bacteria. No creature wants pain and every creature seeks pleasure.

So we are all actually seeking moksha, everlasting happiness, but not all of us are aware of it(certainly not the bacteria) The vast majority of beings are caught up in samsara(the world) pursuing the other goals, because it still has not dawned on them that moksha is the goal they seek. A seeker is somebody for who it has and they already have developed some level of qualifications. These qualifications do not just develop one by one, but they develop together at the same time. For a long time you had been seeking happiness in objects ---- in places, in people, in circumstances etc but you discovered that the happiness was not in the object. When this discrimination arose(viveka) dispassion for those objects also arose(vairagya). Once bitten, twice shy. Sometimes we need to be bitten repeatedly before the dispassion arises. When that arises we develop some degree of self control when we encounter the object again, we restrain our senses, we withdraw inwards, we tolerate all obstacles with faith and focus. At the same time the yearning for happiness increases as we eliminate yet another object that had the promise of happiness but we did not find it there(mumukstva)

We measure how qualified you are on a spectrum ranging from 0% to 100% by the purification of your mind or chitta suddhi and which guna or quality is more predominant in you

0%(Tamas)-------------------------------50%(Rajas)------------------------------100%(Sattva)

There are signs and indicators for where you are in that spectrum which I will cover in more detail when I discuss sad samappti. For now I will just cite the VC on the guna spectrum:

At the Tamas end:


115. Absence of correct judgment, contrary judgment, lack of definite
belief and doubt—certainly these never leave one who has any
connection with this veiling power; also, the projecting power
gives endless trouble.

116. Ignorance, laziness, dullness, sleep, inadvertence, stupidity etc.,
are the attributes of tamas. One tied up with these cannot
comprehend anything, but remains like one asleep, or like a
stump of wood or a block of stone.

Rajas end:

112: Desire, anger, greed, hypocrisy, arrogance, jealousy, egoism,
envy, etc.—these are the dreadful attributes of rajas, from which
the worldly tendencies of man are produced. Rajas is therefore
the cause of bondage in life.

Sattva end:

118. The characteristics of mixed sattva are, utter absence of pride
etc., yama, niyama etc., and also faith, devotion, yearning for
liberation, the divine tendencies, and a natural turning away from
everything unreal.

119. The characteristics of pure sattva are cheerfulness, self realization,
supreme peace, contentment, bliss, and a steady
abidance in the supreme Self, by which the aspirant comes to
enjoy everlasting bliss.​

This spectrum here is not just measuring the differences between one human and another human, but between all 84 lakh species of life. Hence it ranges from a bacteria to Lord Brahma. If bacteria is 0% of the spectrum, then plants, fish, reptiles, birds are at probably 10% of the spectrum. Between 10-25% are mammals ranging to apes. So where are humans on this scale? They are somewhere between 25%-50%. If 50% is where the Devas, Asuras, Ghandarvas etc start, then humans are working there way up to the Rajas part of the spectrum.

 

[Kirran]

That's because Advaita Vedanta is a philosophy, not a religion. i agree, anyone can adopt it, just as how anyone can adopt Visistadvaita or Tattva Vedanta. Vaisnavism is a religion, Advaita is not. Also, Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda were Neo-advaitins. Different from Shankaracharya's Advaita philosophy. I don't think Adi Shankaracharya would approve of being anything else other than Vedantic, and not adhering to sruti.

Sorry Terese, this isn't quite right. You are confusing Neo-Advaita and Neo-Vedanta. Neo-Advaita is a Western phenomenon, which is composed of people who take certain core ideas of Advaitic philosophies and preach on them, without advocating any practices in association with them. Neo-Vedanta is, on the other hand, the exonymous term for what constitutes modern normative Hinduism, which is based on Advaitic philosophical ideal and practices of yoga, bhakti etc. I don't think it's anything new, personally.

 

[Terese]

Sorry Terese, this isn't quite right. You are confusing Neo-Advaita and Neo-Vedanta. Neo-Advaita is a Western phenomenon, which is composed of people who take certain core ideas of Advaitic philosophies and preach on them, without advocating any practices in association with them. Neo-Vedanta is, on the other hand, the exonymous term for what constitutes modern normative Hinduism, which is based on Advaitic philosophical ideal and practices of yoga, bhakti etc. I don't think it's anything new, personally.

Thanks for informing me

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Viveka

I will now break down sadhana chushtaya for you starting with viveka. What is viveka? Viveka literally means discrimination. This word has negative connotations today, but really it simply means the ability to separate two things by ascertaining their properties e.g. milk and water, air and sound, heat and water. Somebody who has low viveka, will taste water that is sweet and say this this is sweet water, not realising that it is not the water that is sweet, it is rather water mixed with something that is sweet. Viveka is the thus the same thing as intelligence. If you have a very sharp mind, you will be able to recognise patterns, find the odd one in out in a list of words, predict the next number in a sequence. IQ tests in some sense measure aspects of viveka. Hence, it not surprising that Hindu gurus like Shankara, Vivekananda, Aurobindo et al had brilliant minds. However, IQ tests do not measure every aspect of viveka, which even contemporary theories of intelligence acknowledge.

This means Advaita is not for dullards, it demands a brilliant intellect. If you have a brilliant intellect you will be able to follow the arguments in Advaita. However, viveka in this context is not just mere intellectual understanding. Understanding the arguments is actually not that difficult if you are capable of abstract reasoning, and the arguments are simple, but rather actually having direct experiences of those truths through sadhana. Viveka passes in stages through the species:

The stages of viveka

The faculty of viveka develops gradually from none of a bacteria to the highest omniscience of Lord Brahma. In the lowest organisms like bacteria, plants, trees and sponges it is virtually absent. This is what is meant when the VC says almost as dead as a rock at the level of pure tamas. In lower animals like fish, insects, reptiles, birds it is present in only a rudimentary state. In higher animals like mammals it is present in a basic state. In the human viveka develops the ability to think about its own thoughts and thus true self-awareness, this reflective ability allows humans to think about science, religion, philosophy, art etc which lower animals cannot. Hence, why the VC says the first stage is attaining a human body.

Rational mind

The next stage the VC talks about is the development of a rational mind. This is called nitya-nitya viveka, meaning the comparison of one impermanent thing with another impermanent thing. The ability to classify things we experience in the world into classes, sub-classes and species by their properties is this level of viveka. The entire Nyaya-Vaiseshika shastra is dedicated to this type of viveka. This is the foundation of any advanced thinking. If you cannot differentiate classes of things, you will not understand the more advanced stages. The culmination of this type of Viveka is to end up with something very similar to the Vaiseshika scheme: Substance, qualities, actions, genus, species, inherence, absence etc. You will understand the differences between the elements, space, time, mind and consciousness and why they are different.

Sattvic mind

The next stage the VC talks about is developing a sattvic mind. This is called priya-shreya viveka. You apply your rational mind in order to understand life, to understand the difference between what is pleasurable and what is good for you. What is good for you is often not pleasurable and what is pleasurable is often not good for you e.g. coffee.

We have already covered the analysis of the pururarths or goals of life which is included in this category of viveka. There is another analysis that I will share, these are the doctrines or positions that we pass through when learning from life experience:

(1)Paristhiti vada, the doctrine of situations
(2)Karma vada, the doctrine of action​

(1) We initially try to attain happiness by changing situations or circumstances objects(visheyas) place(desh) time(kaal) people(lokas) bodies(deha)

Respective examples

"I will be happy when I get the new Iphone"
"I will be happy when I move to USA"
"I will be happy in 5 years time"
"I will be happy when I meet the right man/woman"
"I will be happy when I change my body, or get a new body"

Or by juggling several at once "I will be happy in 5 years time when I move to USA and meet there the right person"

People who like this, live indiscriminately, waiting for happiness to come to them. Eventually, the viveka must dawn that the experiences in our life, our birth, our body, life span and health etc are determined by the law of karma. If we want to obtain anything in life we must know clearly know the object we want to obtain, what are the means are to obtaining it and then put in self-effort to obtain it.

For this there are literally hundreds of shastras. Here are just a few:

Kama: Kama shastra, Natya shastra, Vaastu Shastra, 64 Kalas, Ayurveda
Arth: Arthashastra
Dharma: Dharma shastras, Niti shastras

In addition to occult sciences like mantra, tantra, yantra vidyas.

If one understand the law of karma, how it works, then they can exploit it. The law of karma includes every physical law, mental law and moral law.

(2) The karmavadin understand the laws of cause and effect and can use it to obtain any object they want in this universe, gross or subtle, from billions in wealth to the highest siddhis. However, the karmavadin become arrogant with all these attainments and while they enjoy their accomplishments(siddhis) they feel little need to progress. When it is over the next stage of viveka follows recognising the faults. These are

1. They are limited
2. They are temporal
3. They make you dependent on objects
4. They contain hidden pains
5. They drain your resources, energy​

Consider the following examples. You queue up for the latest roller coaster at the theme park. You spend $100 for the ticket to the theme park to ride the roller coaster. You wait in the long queue for 2 hours. You finally get to it , it was a great thrill, it lasted only 45 seconds though so you feel a bit dissatisfied, you want a bigger thrill next time. You spent $100 and 2 hours for 45 seconds ride, still were not content at the end of it.

You have friends who have some drugs, you spent $200 to get the drug. You and your friends take it. You have an initial high, and are buzzing for an hour, then comes the come down you feel drained and very low. You want another high, you take more, but need to take more to get the same high. Then comes the crash again, you feel even more drained and even more low.

You can apply this analysis to any object, no matter what size, how subtle or what type. They all suffer from the same faults. It is easier to see in the examples above, but what about examples where you require an even larger investment of time and energy and when the duration of the high is much longer e.g. You want to be a movie star. First you go to acting school and spend 5 years learning the craft. Then you spend another 5 years going for auditions(struggling) to get a break in TV. You spend another 5 years doing TV, ads and low budget movies till you get your big break. Then you become a movie star, you enjoy your fame for another 5 years and then your career wanes. You spent 20 years of your life to discover this.

A question that is provoked. That we Advaitins already know that this stage will come and that must not get attached to the higher objects, can we maintain this when they do actually come? It is easy to sit here now and say that we would be able to maintain detachment even when the higher attainments like siddhis come or you will not become arrogant, but that is because you have not attained it. Having vairagya for what you have not obtained is easy. Forget the heavenly pleasures, but how will you react if you had power like that of Trump or movie star fame like that of Brad Pitt, would you remain detached would you renounce it? The universe will throw these tests and the vast majority of us will fall at the first hurdle(I know I certainly did)

When the realisation dawns that karmavada is not sufficient one turns to the next type of viveka when God finally enters the picture.

I will discuss the next two stages of viveka later.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Viveka continued:

Religious mind: Realising God exists and is as real as you are real

We left off last time from how karmavada is not sufficient. For some people even though they recognise that all objects attained are limited, temporal etc and recognise the ups and downs in life, they rationalise it by saying, well, "That's just life, sometimes happinness, sometimes sorrow" This is almost like resignation. If that is life, then the nature of life is suffering, because one always remains in a state of anxiety. If there is nothing beyond this, well why live at all. There is a whole philosophy called "anti-natalism" which takes this position, that it is better to not give birth at all and subject people to suffering.

Fortunately, according to Advaita there IS more, and we will now look at the arguments for why there is more. You will appreciate from these arguments why Advaita is not a faith based religion, but a philosophy based religion. We do not expect you to just believe, because we consider this a weakness. Rather, we expect you to challenge every argument we make, throw every objection or question at us. The chances are every objection you give we would have already encountered and answered. Advaita developed in a competitive and ruthless environment of philosophical debate among dozens of different schools rival schools of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, skeptics and materialists and Shankara defeated them all to establish Advaita.

The following arguments are proofs why Ishvara(God exists) I would actually like to get atheists views on this, but if this is not the right place to raise objections, then I can post them in the debate forum separately

Argument: The laws of cause and effect require a maintainer that enforces it.

If a law exists, it does not necessarily mean that everybody will follow the law. If there is no maintainer/enforcer/supervisor to enforce that law, then some will deliberately not follow that law, some will forget to follow that law and if the laws are very complex, then may partly follow that law while breaking another law.

Objection: This is an invalid argument, because it makes the mistake of applying how humans laws work to natural laws

Reply: The above is only an analogy to illustrate that laws require a supervising intelligence. Consider how complex natural laws are, the laws of gravity, electricity, magnetism, light, sound, nuclear laws, mechanical laws and all these laws operate in tandem perfectly to maintain this universe. If the laws were just blind, why would they do that? Why would they continue to persist, why doesn't gravity just stop working the next moment and all planets fall out of their orbit? Why doesn't some random reaction take place in the sun and the sun explode? Why don't the spin of atoms change by a minuscule amount and all matter just collapses? Why are the physical laws so precisely fine tuned that the universe can exist and humans are around to see it(anthropic principle)

We know that at the quantum level of the uncertainty, how atoms just appear and disappear seemingly randomly every moment, and despite this material flux, still at the non-quantum or manifest level of reality everything coheres. This fact when discovered by Max Plank even compelled him to say in his nobel prize speech that it can only be explained by a supervising cosmic intelligence

Scientists have now started to acknowledge that the universe is indeed a perfectly fined tuned system for life to exist:

"For more than 400 years, physicists treated the universe like a machine, taking it apart to see how it ticks. The surprise is it turns out to have remarkably few parts: just leptons and quarks and four fundamental forces to glue them together.

But those few parts are exquisitely machined. If we tinker with their settings, even slightly, the universe as we know it would cease to exist. Science now faces the question of why the universe appears to have been “fine-tuned” to allow the appearance of complex life, a question that has some potentially uncomfortable answers.

So now, I invite you to join me in imagining a universe, a universe slightly different to our own. Let’s just play with one number and see what happens: the mass of the down-quark. Currently, it is set to be slightly heavier than the up-quark.

(snip)

This situation is devastating for the possibility of complex life, as in a heavy down-quark universe, the simplest atoms will not join and form molecules. Such a universe is destined to be inert and sterile over its entire history. And how much would we need to increase the down-quark mass to realise such a catastrophe? More than 70 times heavier and there would be no life. While this may not seem too finely tuned, physics suggests that the down-quark could have been many trillions of times heavier. So we are actually left with the question: why does the down-quark appear so light?

Examining the huge number of potential universes, each with their own unique laws of physics, leads to a startling conclusion: most of the universes that result from fiddling with the fundamental constants would lack physical properties needed to support complex life.

Things get worse when we fiddle with forces. Make the strength of gravity stronger or weaker by a factor of 100 or so, and you get universes where stars refuse to shine, or they burn so fast they exhaust their nuclear fuel in a moment. Messing with the strong or weak forces delivers elements that fall apart in the blink of an eye, or are too robust to transmute through radioactive decay into other elements,

Then there’s the finely tuned level of dark energy. We know very little about this mysterious substance that fills the universe. It may be related to the weird behaviour of the vacuum. Quantum mechanics predicts that the vacuum is not really empty. Particles continually pop in and out of existence producing a background energy that seems to influence cosmic expansion.

And there is another structural issue to consider – our universe is flying apart. Two things affect the rate of expansion: the amount of matter which acts as a brake, and dark energy which acts as an accelerator. Dark energy is winning so our universe is expanding at an accelerating rate.

What this means is that in the early days of the universe, the rate of expansion was slower, slow enough to allow matter to condense into stars, planets and people. But if the universe had been born with only a touch less matter, it would have rapidly expanded, thinning out to less than one hydrogen atom per universe.

On the other hand, if the universe had been born with only a touch more matter, that would have caused it to re-collapse before the first stars could form. In short, the early universe was on a knife-edge, poised between these possible outcomes. What emerged was the Goldilocks expansion rate: not too fast, not too slow.

Then there’s the finely tuned level of dark energy. We know very little about this mysterious substance that fills the universe. It may be related to the weird behaviour of the vacuum. Quantum mechanics predicts that the vacuum is not really empty. Particles continually pop in and out of existence producing a background energy that seems to influence cosmic expansion.

Symmetry
Next, we come to a consideration of the symmetry displayed in our universe. In everyday life the word symmetry describes how something stays the same when you change your viewpoint; think of the appearance of a perfect vase as you circumnavigate the table it’s sitting on. It demonstrates rotational symmetry.

In physics, we find other types of symmetries hidden in mathematics. For instance, there is a symmetry that ensures the conservation of electric charge: in every experiment we perform, equal amounts of positive and negative charges are produced. Other symmetries dictate the conservation of momentum, and there are others for a whole host of quantum properties. Some symmetries are perfect, others contain slight imperfections. And we would not be here without them.

In a perfectly symmetric universe, the hot fires of the Big Bang would have produced equal amounts of matter and antimatter. This means protons and antiprotons would have completely annihilated each other as the universe cooled leaving a universe empty of its atomic hydrogen building block.
Somewhere hidden in the physics of protons there must be a slight asymmetry that resulted in protons outnumbering antiprotons by one in a billion.

But why does our universe possess a perfect symmetry with respect to charge but a slight asymmetry with respect to matter and antimatter? Nobody knows! If the situation was reversed and our universe was born with zero protons, but with a net excess of charge, the immense repulsive action of the electromagnetic force would prevent matter present from collapsing into anything resembling stars and galaxies.

No matter which way we turn, the properties of our universe have finely tuned values that allow us to be here. Deviate ever so slightly from them and the universe would be sterile – or it may never have existed at all. What explanation can there be for this fine-tuning?

A universe made for me? Physics, fine-tuning and life​

What is now known to science in the latest research from empirical facts, Advaita declared purely using reasoning more than a thousand years ago. We argue similarly, the laws of nature function because there is a supervisising intelligence. In fact we can also provide you empirical proof of this. Take the body for example. As long as the intelligence that is regulating the body exists, the body functions and remains coherent, but as soon as that intelligence leaves, the body stop functioning and falls apart. Thus, extending this argument to the body of the universe, its functioning and coherence can only be possible if there is a supervising intelligence.

Cont.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Argument: The human being is just a microcosm of the universe, and therefore there has to be a macrocosm of a cosmic being or God exists because you exist

The above argument presupposes you have already passed the previous stage of viveka and arrived at a tattva-vada concept of reality or where you know the differentials between matter, space, time, mind and consciousness. This means you know the body, mind, space, time and consciousness are separate ontological realities and are not reducible to one another. Remember we say something is different from another if they have different properties, like salt is salty and sugar is sweet, hence we say they are different and do not mistake salt crystals for sugar crystals when having tea --- the same truth is appreciated in modern philosophy and science that there various irreducible classes of atoms, space and time exists as separate dimensions, and mind and consciousness cannot be logically reduced to matter(hard problem)

The human consists of three parts which contains an individualised version of the material elements which form the gross body, the subtle elements which form the individual mind consisting of individual sense organs, individual organs of senses, individual discriminating mind, individual intelligence and individual ego and individual consciousness. Therefore, just as the material body does not exist in isolation, but is a part of the universal body which is made up of the same material elements, similarly the individual mind must be a part of a universal mind is made up of the same subtle elements that make up the individual mind, which hence has cosmic sense organs sensing through all sense organs; cosmic organs of action acting through all organs of action, cosmic intelligence and cosmic Ego a universal Self in which all individual egos merge.

Jain and Samkhya objection: There is no need to posit such a universal being, rather we can just accept that there are infinite monads of souls each with their own individual body, mind, consciousness etc

Reply: The notion of separation and individual monads is ignorance. It is not true that an individual can exist separately and isolated from the rest of the system e.g. An individual cog in system of cogs, cannot function independently of the other cogs, but if one cog moves, all the the other cogs have to move as well. Similarly, it is the case with the body, the body is not just one individual unit, it is made up millions and billions of cells each their own gross bodies, sense organs, action organs, and each performing a different function to make the body function. In similar manner the human body is not in isolation of the Earth that makes up, its body is made up the food it consumes which grows from the soil of Earth and water it consumes comes from the water of the Earth, just as the Earth's body is mostly water, the human body is mostly water too, just as the body has circulation systems, the Earth also has circulation systems that regulate the flow of air, thermal energy and water. We breath through the lungs of the Earth. Hence, if it true the Earth has a gross body like we do, she also also has her own mind, sense organs, action organs. Like we do, the Earth also is born, ages, decays and dies and has a life span.


The Earth is also not an independent body, it is a part of the solar system, the Earths circulation system is affected by the moon and other planets. The Earth has her own immune systems like the earth's atmosphere which shields it against cosmic radiations.The solar system in is a part of the wider galactic system. The galactic system a part of the universal system.

Just as a human being would pity an individual cell living inside the the human body system thinking of itself to be the only individual who has mind, consciousness etc and the rest of the human body system to be dead, the beings(devas) of the Earth, the sun, the moon, the galaxy and the lord of the entire universe pity the human being for thinking the same.

Swami Rama Tirtha explains the same concept through a story:

After that, the boy was helped on a little to realize what he himself is, and he was asked, "Brother, prince, what have you done today? Will you please let us know the works or deeds that you have performed this morning?"

​

He began to relate, "I woke up early in the morning, took bath, and did this thing and that thing, took my breakfast, read a great deal, wrote some letters, visited some friends, received some friends, and came here to pay my respects to the Swami."

Now the prince was asked, "Is that all? Have you not done a great deal more? Is that all? Just see." He thought and thought; and then mentioned a few other things of the same sort. "That is not all; you have done thousands of things more; you have done hundreds, thousands, nay, millions of things more. Innumerable deeds you have done, and you refuse to make mention of them. This is not becoming. Please let us know what you have done. Tell us everything that you have done this morning."

The prince, hearing such strange words that he had done thousands of things besides the few that he had named, was startled. "I have not done anything more than what I have told you, sir, I have not done anything." "No, you have done millions, trillions, quadrillions of things more." How is that?

The boy was asked, "Who is looking at the Swami at this time?" He said, "I". "Are you seeing this face, this river Ganga that flows beside us?" He said, "Yes, indeed." "Well, you see the river and you see the face of the Swami, but who makes the six muscles in the eyes move? You know the six muscles in the eyes move, but who makes the muscles move? It cannot be anybody else; it cannot be anything extra. It must be your own Self that makes the muscles in the eyes move in the act of seeing."

(snip)

Well, the boy admitted so far. Now he was asked, "Dear Prince, just reflect, just think for a while. The process of digestion implies hundreds of kinds of movements. In the process of digestion, in mastication, saliva is emitted from the glands in the mouth. Here is again the next process of oxidation going on. Here is blood being formed. There is the blood coursing through the veins, there is the same food being converted into carnatic muscles, bones, and hair; here is the process of growth going on in the body. Here are a great many processes going on, and all these processes in the body are connected with the process of assimilation and digestion."

"If you take the food, it is you yourself who are the cause of respiration; you yourself make the blood course through your veins; you yourself make the hair grow; you yourself make the body develop, and here mark how many processes there are; how many acts, how many deeds there are that you are performing every moment."

The boy began to think and said, "Indeed, indeed, sir, in my body, in this body, there are thousands of processes that the intellect does not know, about which the mind is unconscious, and still they are being performed, and it must be I that am the cause of all that, it must be I that am performing all that; and indeed it was a mistake I made when I said that I had done a few things, a few things only, and nothing more, a few things that were done through the agency of the intellect or mind."​

The story sums up the above argument the conscious mind and intellect accounts for a minuscule percentage of whatever we do, there is another intelligence far beyond our own, which is coordinating the the millions, billions and trillions of processes in our body, an intelligence unimaginably beyond us. The philosopher of science Erwin Lazo explains this in his book Science and the Reenchatment of the universe

"The vital functions of the body are governed by constant, quasi instant and multidimensional correlations. Simple collisions among neighbouring molecules -- mere billiard ball push impact relations -- do not suffice. They are complemented by a network that correlates all parts of the system, even those that are distant from one another. Rare molecules, for example, are seldom next to each other, yet they find each other throughout the organism. This is important for the organism needs to react to stress and strains as a whole, mobilizing all its resources wherever they are located. There be no time for an integrated response to occur by a random process of jiggling and mixing, the molecules need to locate and respond to each other specifically, whether they are proximal or distant. In the living organism order is dynamic and fluid, the bodies myriad activities are self-motivated, self-organizing and sponaneous. The body's coherence extends to every level, from the tens of thousands of genes, hundreds of thousands of proteins and other macromolecules that make up the cell, to the many kinds of cells that constitute tissues and organs. Adjustments, responses and changes required for the maintenance of the organism propogate in all directions at the same time. All components are in constant and near instant communication"​

Swami Rama Tirtha continues

"Now the boy, the prince, expected that as he knew about himself, he had come to know that he was something unchanging, something constant, something which was never asleep; so he wanted to know what God is. The prince was asked; "Brother, mark, here are these trees growing. Is the power that makes this tree grow different from the power that makes that tree grow?" He said, "No, no, it must be the same power certainly." "Now, is the power which makes all these trees grow different from the power that makes the bodies of animals grow?" He said, "No, No, it cannot be different, it must be the same." Now is the power, the force which makes the stars move, different from the power which makes these rivers flow? He said, "It cannot be different, it must be the same."​

Well, now the power that makes these trees grow cannot be different from the power which makes your body grow, it cannot be different from the power which makes your hair grow. The same universal power of nature, the same universal Divinity or the Unknowable, which makes the stars shine, makes your eyes twinkle, the same power which is the cause of the growth of that body’s hair which you call mine, the same power makes the blood course through the veins of each and all."​

That universal intelligence is the same intelligence that is operating your body, that is operating every body, that is operating the sun and the solar system, that is operating billions of galaxies containing trillions of such solar systems and all the atoms within it. An intelligence that is infinitely greater and unfathomable, for we get a headache when we just try to do two tasks at once. The culmination of this viveka is the seeker surrenders their doership to the universal intelligence and surrenders all the fruits of their actions to that. This is the beginning of Bhakti and Karma yoga through which the seeker begins to purify the mind and cultivate sattva.

At this stage of viveka or realisation God is as real and separate as the seeker is real and separate from the sun. Hence, because there is separation bhakti is possible. The culmination of bhakti is Ishvara dasana or Saguna Brahman realisation. I will explain how bhakti should be done when I discuss the practices of sadhana. Thus, it is simply a myth that Advaita does not accept Dvaita sentiments and Bhakti, rather Advaita prescribes it directly as essential limbs of sadhana.

Nor, does Advaita say Ishvara is unreal, Ishvara is the closest that the conditioned jiva can get to Brahman with the mind.

Next, we will discuss Brahman.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Viveka Continued

Discrimination between the real and unreal

The viveka section will be the longest section of Sadhana Chutushtaya part, after this there will be one more stage of viveka and then the section will conclude. As you can may see viveka is the modus operandi of how Advaita establishes its truths. However, remember, viveka is not just not mere intellectual understanding, you must have direct realisations through your own experience at every stage. Simply understanding the argument and accepting it is not enough.

We are now getting to the the final and most advanced stage of viveka and which is the core of Advaita: nitya-anitya viveka or the discrimination between the permanent and impermanent. This consists of two parts:

1) Establishing the existence of Brahman
2) Establishing that the Self is Brahman​

Establishing the existence of Brahman

Brahman has three aspects. The word 'aspect' here is important, because it means basically it is one and the same thing, but appear different from the vantage point you take e.g. The summit of the mountain looks different from each angle you view it, but is is the same summit. Those three aspects are:

1. Sat or Absolute unchanging Existence, truth or absolute reality
2. Chit or Pure consciousness
3. Ananda or Bliss, everlasting happiness, immortality
​

These three aspects are equivalents, meaning they are equal each other: Existence = Pure consciousness = Bliss.

(1) What is absolutely true? Only that is absolutely true that is never negated in any time period past, present or future, in any circumstance and in state of experience. If something is said to be true, like say Newton laws of physics, but then it is negated later by Einstein's GR, then we know it is not absolutely true, only relatively true. The entire waking reality is true only from the waking state of experience, but when we go to sleep it is negated by the dream and then deep sleep state, therefore it is only relatively true, not absolutely true.

Now let us look at arguments for why there has be an absolute unchanging reality(Brahman)

​

Argument: All impermanent materials things require an permanent material cause or substratum



All material things in the universe obey the same law of impermanence, they appear in space and time and go through the six modifications pre-exist, come into being, they grow, they transform, decay and then go out of being. This is true for the tinest object like subatomic particles to the largest object like galaxies. Therefore, we most posit a substratum from which all material things manifest.

Buddhist Objection: There is no need to posit a permanent substratum, rather we should just accept that impermanence is the nature of reality

Reply: You cannot have a building without a foundation, if there is no permanent foundation which supports the universe and all things within it, then universe would not exist in the first place.

Buddhist counter-reply: That things are solid is ignorance. Things oly seem to be solid and stable, but in actual fact this is an illusion due the rapidity of how things appear and disappear with every moment with such rapidity, like the fire circle that appears if you move fire around quickly, though there is no actual fire circle

Reply: This still does not solve the problem posed that you cannot have a building without a foundation, except now you have an even more bizarre problem a building with a foundation that appears and disappears every second. How can a building which at the foundation level is constantly appearing and disappearing but higher up it is stable. Similary to say at the fundamental level the universe is constantly momentarily appearing and disappearing and at the macro level it is stable is absurd. Furthermore, if it is appearing and disappearing randomly, then why every moment does any object persist

This is the same problem with the complimentarity principle of the Cophenhagen interpretation which simply accepts at the quantum level atoms randomly disappear from one location and appear in another, but at the macro level it appears to stay put in one place. At the quantum level it is uncertain and at the macro level is predictable. At the quantum level there are no laws like gravity, but at the macro level there is. This is why quantum theory is considered incomplete and a new theory is sought to reconcile quantum theory with macro physics. The most promising theory is string theory which shows that there is actually a permanent substratum but it exists in higher spatial dimensions and it is perfectly coherent and predictable.

(2)The next part is to show that Brahman the material cause is also consciousness

Samkhya objection: There is no need to posit that the material cause has consciousness, all material things can be resolved only into a material substratum. As for consciousness, consciousness is shown to be plural, because every soul has different experiences at different times, e.g if I eat the cake, I have the experience of the taste of the cake and not you, which shows we are different souls. Hence matter can be resolved to a singular unmanifest material cause and consciousness exists as plural. Both are eternal realities.

Note: Shankara spent a lot of time refuting Samkhya's theory that prakriti is material cause and conscious souls are the efficient cause. However, some take this to mean that Advaita and Samkhya are enemies, and that is totally not true. Advaita is extremely indebted to Samkhya, a point that was noted by Vivekananda, because Advaita begins from where Samkhya ends. We accept everything Samkhya shastra says up until the final causal state. We accept the same cosmology and metaphysics. That is because Samkhya establishes it through rigorous inference. We differ, because we argue that Brahman is BOTH the the material cause and the efficient cause of the universe.

Reply: There is no need to posit another material substratum that is permanent, because permanence is not an observed property of matter. All matter is shown to be impermanent through perception, and thus to posit another type of matter which is permanent is lacking in proof. Rather, we should say matter's existence is unreal, because it does not exist in all three time periods past, present and future, it is one moment there the next moment it is not, like a phantom. What is real can never cease to exist and what is unreal never has any existence. Therefore, matter's existence itself can only be an illusion(maya) and therefore there is no dualism of consciousness and matter, rather there is only consciousness and matter is just name and form within the field of consciousness.

As for the plurality of consciousness. This is ignorance. You say that each soul is different because it has different experiences at different times, but the experiences can only be resolved to the subtle body. If we say "you are walking" it is not actually you that is walking, the walking can be resolved to the gross body. Similarly, thinking, feeling and experiencing can be resolved to the subtle body or mind. Hence, consciousness is not the locus of any experiences or any activities and therefore its plurality is refuted.

Samkhya reply: The existence of prakriti is proven through inference, the effect is just the transformation of the cause, just as the tree is just a transformation of the seed containing it, but it still the same substance. Similarly, everything which is possessed of the nature of the gunas, can only be resolved back to an ultimate substance which is possessed of the gunas. Hence, the gross body, the subtle body(mind) being possessed of the nature of gunas, can only be resolved back to a material substratum. Consciousness not being possessed of the nature of the gunas cannot be the material cause of things that are possessed of the gunas.

Reply: We agree that the effect is the cause, but not that it is an actual transformation. Let us trace back the logic:

1. I see effects
2. Every effect has a cause
3. The effect is just the cause in another form
4. There is only cause to begin with​

Thus, If there is only cause to begin with, then the perception of effects can only be an illusion. You are differentiating the singular cause into several effects based on names and forms, just as a rock can be differentiated into a pebble, a mountain, an asteroid, a planet or snow can be differentiated into 50 kinds of snow but there is only ever one substance, the notion of multiplicity is only owing to name and form and therefore there is no real multiplicity and no real transformation of the rock, snow etc. Therefore, you are left with the problem of now explaining that once you resolve all matter back to unmanifest prakriti, how does the unmanifest prakriti collapse herself out of that state(avykata) into the manifest state(vyakta) The seed does not become a tree without first watering the seed. When the seed is in a seed state it cannot by itself collapse out the seed state into the tree state without there being an efficient cause to act on it.

Samkhya reply: That efficient cause is when the souls come into association with unmanifest prakriti it causes prakriti to collapse into the manifest state

Reply: Now, you have another problem. The unmanifest prakriti is an eternal reality and the souls are also eternal realities. If they are both are eternal, then at what point in time did the the souls come into association with her? This is a contradiction in terms. If the event happened in time, then it means neither unmanifest prakriti or the souls are eternal realities, because they have to in time to cause events in time. Your second problem is to explain how can the souls and prakriti even interact with one another, as one is possessed of the gunas and one is not, so being two different substances, like cloth and a magnet, they cannot attract or repel one another.

We can resolve your problems for you. Your problem is only resolved if you posit a third ultimate substance which is both the material cause and the efficient cause. In cases where something is both the material cause and efficient cause of something, that something is an illusion e.g. The air and heat are both the material and efficient cause of the mirage; the pearl is both the material cause and efficient cause of the silver in the pearl. Therefore, prakriti is just the maya aspect of the ultimate substratum(Brahman) and the maya aspect is what creates the illusion of multiplicity of objects in prakriti and multiplicity of souls. When the maya is overcome we realise there is only Brahman and nothing else.

Cont.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Any thoughts, opinions, objections, questions so far?

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Why is Brahma consciousness continued

We have so far established that matter's existence is unreal and thus no grounds for multiplicity of consciousness, as multiplicity is only owing to association with material bodies. I have a different body from you, but that does not mean we are different people. In a hive of ants, every ant has a different body, but it shares the same "I" consciousness. The human body itself is made up of millions and billions of living cells but they cohere to form the same "I" consciousness of your gross body. Similarly, just because we have different minds, does not mean that we are different consciousness. As the mind too is just a product of subtle matter, and thus all thoughts, feelings and emotions are in association only with the subtle body of mind and not consciousness.

There is only one consciousness and not two. As Schrodinger himself realised, "Consciousness is never experienced in the plural" The notion there is one, two, three or four consciousness is simply not tenable. Consciousness is not a quantitative thing or object which you dissect and enumerate. I will show now you further proof for why consciousness is only ONE, by introducing another core concept in Advaita of the avasthas or states of experience.

There are three major states of experience we pass through everyday:

1. Waking state
2. Dream state
3. Dreamless sleep state​

(1) In the waking state: We have a gross body, gross objects, mind, space and time and absolute separation between things e.g. The sun is 91 million miles away from your gross body.

(2)In the dream state: There is no gross body, there is only the subtle body or mind, space and time are fuzzy and there is no absolute separation between things. e.g I can touch the sun with my hand

(3)In the dreamless asleep. There is no gross body, there is no mind, no space, no time, no objects, we all experience the same singular state of voidness or nothingness.

Now lets analyse:

The gross body and the entire physical world of space and time exists only in the waking state, and it is negated by the dream state.

The subtle body or mind exists both in waking state and the gross state, but it is negated by the dreamless sleep state.

In the dreamless sleep state there is neither gross body or subtle body.

Now using the method of agreement and disagreement we come to this conclusion:
When mind is present, there is is a world of experience either subtle of dream or gross of of waking. When the mind is absent, there is no world of experience. Therefore the mind is the cause of the worlds of experience. The same mind that is responsible for generating the dream state is responsible for generating the waking state. If you ask which one is real and which one is false, then we say they are both unreal, because both get negated by the dreamless sleep state. They are both creations of the mind. We do not have the same waking experiences or dream experiences, but we certainly have the same experience in dreamless sleep. We all wake up the next morning and say "I slept" meaning that consciousness was present in the dreamless sleep too. It can be presented like this

"I was awake"
"I was dreaming
"I was sleeping"

Thus the "I" was never negated in any of the states, it is the common substratum of all dream worlds and all waking worlds. It all shows that the 'I' existed without the support of your gross body and without the support of your subtle body. I will provide supporting proof shortly after to further cement this. Now, you may understand why Advaita says this entire world is like a dream. When we wake up from a dream being chased by a tiger, we heave a sigh of relief that the tiger was not "real" (It was real, but only from the point of view of the dream state) Similarly, when we realise that the entire waking state is just another state within consciousness, we realise we can wake up from it too as if it were a dream.

Atma Bodha declares:

6. The world which is full of attachments, aversions and so in is like a dream. It appears to real so as long as the dream continues, but becomes unreal when wakes up -- when wisdom dawns.​

7. Like bubbles in the water, the worlds rise, exist and dissolve in the same Supreme Self, which is the material cause and the support of everything.​

8. The entire world of things and beings is only a mere projection upon the substratum which is the eternal all pervading Vishnu, whose nature is Existence, Consciousness, just as the different ornaments are made out of the same gold​

9. The all pervading space appears to be diverse on its account with various conditioning(upadhis) which are different from each other. However, upon destruction of these limiting adjuncts the space becomes one. So, also the omnipresent truth appears to be diverse on accounts of its association with various upadhis and becomes one when the upadhis are destroyed.​

This is the most remakable conclusion of Advaita, that consciousness is the only space in which all worlds appears or in other words what we take to be space is actually consciousness. Consider

Here is the waking world:

-----------------------------------------------
Outer space


Gross body
----------------------------------------------

Where is this entire waking world taking place? In your field of consciousness of course.

Here is the dream world:

-----------------------------------------------
Outer space


Dream body
-----------------------------------------------

Where is the dream world taking place? In your field of consciousness of course.

Now the state of dreamless sleep of infinite, none-ending void and nothingness. Where is this void and nothingess in? In your field of consciousness of course.

The same infinite field of consciousness appears to split into an subjective and objective space in the dream state and waking state, taking on notions like inner space and outer space, and then disappear in dreamless sleep into an objectless space.

Why Brahman is happiness?

Thus we have so far shown Brahman is existence and consciousness. However, why is Brahman also everlasting happiness? I will argue this very briefly:

All likes, dislikes, desires, fears, anxieties worries, vanish in deep sleep. No matter how painful your waking life or your dream life, when dreamless sleep it all vanishes and yet you are still present. Thus you abide in the bliss of the Self. This is why it is said that when you are feeling really depressed or down, just go to sleep, and you wake up refreshed. Therefore because your natural state is fearlessness, completeness, desirelessness, your natural state is one of supreme bliss. You experience this bliss every night in deep sleep but it is covered by a thick layer of ignorance(avarana shakti of maya) and you must perceive through it by self-realisation.

All objects in the world elicit happiness in varying finite degrees, like sugar gives a bit of happiness, sexual union a bit more, the beautiful sights of nature maybe more, hearing divine music a bit more and thus we search for happiness in objects to get more and more happiness, therefore the substratum of all objects or Brahman must be the source of infinite happiness from which all objects derive their finite happiness.


Thus we conclude part 1 that Brahman is Sat, Chit and Ananda or Existence, Consciousness and Bliss

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Establishing Brahman as the Self

Finally, we have arrived at the last stage of viveka, which is the most radical and most controversial teaching of Advaita and is the sole reason for why there are so many schools of Vedanta to negotiate the relationship between Jagat, Jiva and Ishwara.

Lets recap the previous stages first

1. Nitya-Nitya viveka. To develop a rational mind to correctly develop a schema of everything that exists
2. Priya-Shreya viveka: To develop a sattvic mind to realise the limitation of all achievements and surrender ones doership to Ishvara
3. Nitya-Anitya viveka: To discriminate between the real and the unreal to realise the existence of Brahman as the source of all existence, consciousness and bliss

The final stage is 4. Atman-Anatman viveka or the discrimination between the self and not self: To realise your Self is Brahman

Now comes the most popularised and well known question of Advaita: "Who am I?" Let us start with the very first thing we take ourselves to be:

1. Gross body(Sthula sharira) What is the gross body made of? It is made of fat, blood, urine, excrement, muscle, saliva, tissues, marrow etc. It all covered by a layer of skin. If it wasn't, it would be a very grotesque sight.
If I had a transparent bag full of urine, blood, muscle, excrement, fat, pus and put it right next to you, you would run a mile. If suppose I covered the bag with an opaque covering so you could not see what was in it and yet knew what was in it, would you be ok with it? Probably not. Yet, we are literally obsessed with these leather bags.

What do we use the gross body for? We need it to navigate in the field of the world so we can perform actions through it. If suppose I am from another dimension and I want to act in this world, then I would be forced to take on a gross body to act here, because my own body cannot exist in this world. Hence, even Vishnu despite being lord, takes avatars in human bodies.

It is born of karma and dictated by karma. Very little of what the gross body does is under our conscious control, we spend most of our life on autopilot, meaning that our subconscious and unconscious mind drive the gross body. Where it is born, to which parents, in which place, its life span and even the kind of experiences it will have in its life are driven by karmic forces.

Is this really me though? There is a doubt that this is me because the gross body is the locus of two notions "My body" and "Me" Sometimes we say "I am walking" which presupposes the body and the "I" are the same. Yet sometimes we say "My head is aching" which presupposes the body and its parts, in this case the 'head' are not "I" Thus this raises the doubt is it really me?

Here is why it is not you:

1. The body is impermanent or momentary. Somebody said earlier that the cells change every 7 years, in fact its goes deeper than that, at the quantum level every moment the atoms that make up your body appear and disappear --- yet despite this you endure. If something is constantly changing, then the change can only be known if there is an unchanging "you" between those two states of change. You can say "My body has changed a lot in last the last 10 years" because you endured between those 10 years to see the body change.

2. The body is objective. What is objective to you is not you. It is easier to see this when you see the tree in front of you, you immediately say "I am not that tree over there" because you can see it as separate from you. However, many do not realise that even the body is seen as separate from you. Can you see your face, hands, hands, stomach, legs? Then it is not you. You could even take a knife and cut yourself open and see your heart, lungs and even brain. Even huge chunks of the brain can be taken out and you'd be still there. . Thus, none of the body is you.

3. Your body is made up millions of parts which function only for you. The body is not just a singular unit, it is made up of billions and trillions of cells, performing billions and trillions of processes distant from one another and yet all correlated and they all in service of "you" When "you" are absent, the body near immediately falls apart.

4. Even when your body is completely dead, there is no heart beat, no brain activity, even for several days, people can still come back to life(NDE) and reanimate the body and they report vivid and lucid experiences and even report what happened during those days around them. There have been some cases where they have brought back knowledge as well.

5. Your body is a composite entity, hence it for your enjoyment. All composite entities are for the enjoyment of others e.g. A watch is a composite entity, it exists to be used by a conscious being. Similarly, the body is an infinitely machined complex entity, it evolved to be used. Note, that the body mutates exactly to suit its environment in which it to be operated.

6. The body is a dependent entity. The body depends on you for instruction, you do not depend on it. Your body cannot just start walking by itself(sleep walking and automatic movement like ricks is something different) You illume the body and not vis versa e.g. the eyes are open, the brain is working but you do not "see" You do not see because "you" were not engaged with the body at the time.

7. The body is made up of the gross elements. The body is made up of the same elements that make up dead rocks. The atoms that make up the rock, are the same atoms that make up your body, if the rock has no sentience then how can the body being made of the same parts have sentience?

8. The mind cannot be located in the body. The mind is more subtle, more finer and invisible than the body, it thus necessarily precedes the body and not vis versa. What is more subtle always precedes what is gross.

9. The dream state negates the gross body. In the dream state the gross body disappears, but the mind remains, thus showing the mind can exist without the gross body.

Thus our viveka indicates to us that we are something other than the gross body. Then what is that other thing? To understand this lets consider this illustration: Suppose there is a dummy you see in the shop window. After a while, the dummy starts to move. What do you infer? You infer there is an animating principle behind it driving it. This is what in Advaita we call the subtle body, and because it is inferred, it is also known as the inferred or sign body.

Next, I will discuss the subtle body. The most important body you need to know about.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think the whole Ramakrishna had visions of Allah/Jesus thing is overstressed. The Math likes to emphasise that he took up these religions and practice sincerely and had these visions but in order to adopt these religions it requires more than one day of each. I do not think he really had a true understanding of either of them. The Koran is full of vile things and the bible is not much better; the difference between the two is that the followers of one can't leave the 7th century and the followers of the other only left the witch burning because they were dragged kicking and screaming into modernity by the European Renaissance.

Not to mention he'd already done it within Hinduism. Talk about a head start.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Subtle Body Overview

In the previous post I showed the logical arguments that prove the subtle body exists and precedes the gross body. In this post I will give an overview of the subtle body, subtle worlds and reincarnation in every non-Hindu tradition in the world to basically convince you of its universality and reality.

The subtle body is one of the most important and core things in all Dharmic religions, nay all spiritual traditions. In Sufism it is called "jism alsli haqiqi"(the true body) Getting to it is the very first major milestone in ones spiritual development(sadhana) So a huge part of Dharmic shastras are dedicated to describing it, proving that it exists and giving you techniques like meditation and visualisation to experience it, a large part of this comes from the Tantra literature. Though experiencing it just the first stage, because as soon as you have experienced it, you open up an entirely new universe to explore. It is like a man who is born blind and one day he gets eyes, a whole new universe is opened.

Multidimensional universe

If you exist in a 2D universe, then all you can see is the 1D and 2D you can never see the 3D universe and its people, but they can see you. All you could see is the effects of the 3D on the 2D, in terms of unexplained phenomena. In a 2D universe all phenomena is experienced as a singular line and when a 3D object passes by it, it experienced as a line that gets bigger and then smaller. The 2D inhabitant cannot even imagine what the 3D universe is like, the only way a 2D inhabitant could know what the 3D universe is like, is for it to step into the 3D universe. But It would first need to know the 3D universe exists. How could it ever know? There are only three ways

1. Testimony: If some rare 2D beings have somehow been been able to step into the 3D universe and returned to tell other 2D beings that it exists. These 2D beings would be like Rishis, Prophets and Avatars of 2D inhabitants, teaching them about the higher realities, giving arguments for their existence describing and ways to get there. There would be believers and non believers among the 2D inhabitants of these special people. The non-believers will continue to go about their 2D ways and the believers would find a way to escape from the 2D universe.​

2. Anomalous perception: If somehow 3D objects crossed with 2D objects and caused anomalous unexplained phenomena. These phenomena would be like ghosts, apparitions, EVP, sudden changes in temperature, certain disturbances in electric and magnetic fields. Those who experience them will believe them, and those who do not will doubt them.​

3. Inference: The scientists of the 2D universe investigate 2D phenomena and infer that a 3D universe in fact exists and then can predict using mathematical models the effects of 3D phenomena on the 2D universe with precision. Only some inhabitants of the 2D universe would understand this and maybe believe it, the rest of the 2D inhabitants would continue with their 2D ways. Even the other scientists of the 2D universe would doubt those scientists and attempt to explain everything in terms of 2D, until they are somehow able to open a portal using 2D technology into the 3D universe.​

We humans exist in a 3D universe, so we can see 1D, 2D and 3D but we cannot see 4D, 5D, 6D 7D and so on. Thus, like 2D inhabitants we like to think there is only this 3D universe and nothing else. Yet we have evidence for the other dimensions in the form of (1) testimony from religions (2) Parapsychology (3) Modern physics, GR, QM and M theory. Let us look at (2) and (3)

Evidence from parapsychology

Parapsychology is not considered a science by many, or at best a controversial science because parapsychology only describes effects when they happen, it does not actually have a theory to explain and predict how they happened. Hence, there is a problem with repeating that phenomena for peer review, thus parapsychologists have struggled for more than a century to solve this problem of repeatability. Recently, they have made massive progress in certain areas like ESP, such as precognition and telepathy using fMRI and more stricter controls in experiment, so it is getting increasingly more adherents. However, we will only look at one area and some studies which indicate the existence of the subtle body:

In 1979, Karlis Osis and Donna McCormick verified that a projector correctly identified a random optical target, in a locked room replete of sensors, 114 of 197 (57.87%) trials in 20 sessions. During these 114 “hits,” kinetic effects were observed demonstrating the presence of something subtle but nonetheless physical. Noteworthy as well, are visual experiences during out-of-body experiences (including near-death experiences) by the blind - including congenital cases - as investigated by Dr Kenneth Ring.​

In these trials the subtle/astral body was detected by the senses in room exactly when the projector got the target correct. This indicates the subtle body though non-physical is also a material substance and can be affected by material tings. Experienced projectors like Robert Monoroe have reported the subtle body is not only affected but can be trapped by electric fields, like in a faraday cage.

See more here:
VICTOR ZAMMIT -- The Book - 7. Out of Body Experiences
Life After Death?

Evidence now also comes from research in reincarnation by investigating past life memories and birth marks, indicating the existence of the subtle body:

Reincarnation - world, body, life, history, beliefs, time, person, human, Hinduism, Buddhism


Evidence from M theory

Physical theories are not phenomenological, i.e. they cannot describe what the other dimensions are like, they can only indicate their existence using inference in the form of pure mathematical equations in physics. The first evidence for the existence of higher spatial dimensions in addition 3D of space and 1D of time comes from quantum physics. We observe particles appear and disappear randomly without traversing the 3D distance -- an effect which has been called "quantum tunneling" or true quantum teleportation. It is like you are at location x and the next moment at location y 100 miles away. Where you were you in between these moments? This is the subject of many debates and interpretations. They range from (1) The particle exists as a probability and when the probability function collapses it appears at a specific location and the collapse is caused by the observer (2) The particles goes into a virtual state(virtual particles) a fuzzy state in between manifest and unmanifest reality and (3) The entire universe splits every moment into a parallel universe. The problem with all these interpretations is none of them reconcile with our macro-universe which is perfectly predictable, coherent and governed by precise laws of nature. This reconciliation is ONLY possible if we posit there are many as 10 or more extra spatial dimensions.

In Advaita the epistemology for our cosmology comes from the (1)inferences of Samkhya which is like the non-mathematical version of modern physics, the testimony of aptas Rishis, gurus and other reliable people. (1) I will cover in a later post when I discuss Advaita cosmology, but yes it basically is 'M theory with holi powder thrown around' -- the universal is multidimensional and divided into three zones: Gross, subtle and causal. It is made of vibrating strings or gunas which produce three different phases of reality based on the rate of vibration. The rate of vibration of the physical is lowest hence it is on the tamas end of the spectrum. The subtle world, which our subject of study is divided into as many 7 or 7*7 or 49 dimensions and it is medium vibrational rate and hence it is on the rajas end of the spectrum. The highest is the causal world, which is in sattvic end of the spectrum.. The holi part is it is teeming with life of all kinds spiritual life prethas, rakhshases, gandharvas, apsaras, yaksas, devas, asuras, devas/devis, adityas, avatars, siddhas existing at a different vibrational level.

Cont.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

(2) There is remarkable consistency in the phenomenological features of the subtle worlds and subtle world described in the literature spanning thousands of years and every part of the world. The modern literature because it is the subject of more scientific study contains a far more comprehensive list of features:

*360 degree vision
*Vivid and bright colours
* Astral sounds and vibrations(usually experienced during the moment the subtle body separates from the physical)
* Astral tunnels(tunnels of light that the subtle body can pass through to enter other dimensions)
* Seeing behind closed eyes
*The ability to fly
*The ability to walk through walls and solid objects
* The interpenetration of physical and non-physical dimesions
* Meeting other spiritual beings

I can personally confirm some of these(PM me if you want my to share my experiences, as I don't like talking publicly about them)

Literally, every culture on this planet reports the existence of the subtle body, the subtle worlds it navigates and reincarnation. It is the most pervasive, universal and ancient teaching:

Shamanic religion

Shamanic religion is considered to be the oldest religion in the world, dating back to prehistory, it is religion of primitive humans dating back to cavemen and forest dwellers and it is found in tribal cultures today. In these tribal cultures, "shamans" are specially advanced people who can do prophecy, perform healings, visit other dimensions.

Inuits:

The Inuits believe that certain people have special abilities whereby they can travel to the other realms or distant places while still alive, and get knowledge like stop bad luck in hunting, curing the sick and getting knowledge beyond normal senses. They believe the subtle body reincarnates from body to body and shamans can remember their past lives.

Amazon:

In some Amazon tribes, there is a shaman class known as "yaskomo" that can perform "soul flights" to fly to other realms, into the sky and into the water to consult spirit beings and gain knowledge for hunting, medicine etc

Aborigines:

In Australian aborigines, there exists a class of shamanic class that can enter "dreamtime" a realty beyond the physical where the past, present and future co-exist, and gain knowledge from the ancestors.

Japanese:

In traditional Shinto Japan there exists a class of people known" Ikiryo" who project an astral double which can materialise before their enemies to scare them but it is also projected during time of sickess or death(NDE)

African:

In African tribal religions tribes hold beliefs that their family members return back into the same family, so they give names like "Father returns" "brother returns"

Taoism

Ancient Taoism contain more or less an identical version of Yoga teachings, the existence of a finer energy body consisting of energy pathways, energy centres and the existence of higher subtle realms contains gods and spirits. There are similar practices like postures, breathing exercises and meditations.

Abrahamic religions

One of the arguments against universality of the subtle body and reincarnation etc is the lack of belief in Abrahamic religions. That is because the Abrahamic religions stomped out that belief because it was opposed to the idea of a redemption in a single life, a single judgement at the end of life and a single fate of either heaven or hell which could only be atoned by salvation offered by the Church, otherwise it was present in the pre-Christian and Pre-Islamic societies, and the belief is so persistent, there still exists sects today that believe it.

Jewish:

In Kabbalah , reincarnation is a mostly accepted belief, and among Hasidic Jews, which are a sect of orthodox Judaism reincarnation is also accepted.

Christian:

In Christian gnostics, reincarnation is mostly accepted and taught in the Gnostic gospels, reincarnation was also accepted by the early Church fathers Origen, that taught the soul originated originally from God, and through reincarnation the soul travels from body to body on its journey back to God. Thus Jesus was no special soul, but just an advanced soul who had realised his oneness with God, and anybody could do the same through the path of "gnosis" or self knowledge. This was the prevailing teaching of Christianity for 300 years and continued by Church popes. Then in the Council of Nicea when the ruling emperor Justinian wanted the then current pope Vigilus to sign a decree condemning Origen's teaching, but the pope refused and was arrested. Later the council was convened without him and the pope had to flee,



See more here: Reincarnation in Christian History
Pope Arrested for Believing in Reincarnation

In Sufism, the subtle body is known as "Nasma" it is the intermediate body between the soul(ru) and body and it is what reincarnates and travels from body to body over several lifetimes till it reunites with Allah. The Deluze and Alizis also accept a form of reincarnation, they believe a person reincarnates three times and is then finally judged.

Western pagan/esoteric

Greeks:

The earliest reference to the subtle body and reincarnation is found in the Orphic religion during the birth of pre-socrartic religion. Pythgoras is famous for postulating the existence of the subtle body and the continued transmigration of the soul, even recounting his own past lives. Then Socrates, his student Plato popularised that the idea the soul or subtle body was distinct from the body, and reincarnates from body to body from animal to human over many lifetimes. In the "Pheado" recounted in the Myth of Er, the soul begins to forget its previous life as it enters the subtle worlds at death for a temporal period, from there based on facing judgement it descends again into another body. In neo-Platonism, the subtle body is called the the "vehicle of the soul" it is considered to be a made of a subtle form of matter called "ether" which is less dense than physical matter but more dense than the soul. The Platonists describe in comparison the physical universe is "dimly lit" compared to the subtle worlds which far more vivid in colour.

Plutrach, the middle platonist wrotes:

We know that the soul is indestructible and should think of its experience as like that of a bird in a cage. If it has been kept in a body for a long time and become tamed to this life as a result of all sorts of involvements and long habituation, it will alight back to a body again after birth and will never stop becoming entangled in the passions and chances of this world.
​

Celtic:

We know from the reports of Romans that that Celtic religion or Drudism taught the existence of a subtle body which reincarnates life time to life time:

Alexander Cornelius Polyhistor referred to the druids as philosophers and called their doctrine of the immortality of the soul and reincarnation or metempsychosis "Pythagorean":​

"The Pythagorean doctrine prevails among the Gauls' teaching that the souls of men are immortal, and that after a fixed number of years they will enter into another body."

Caesar remarks: "The principal point of their doctrine is that the soul does not die and that after death it passes from one body into another" (see metempsychosis). Caesar wrote:
With regard to their actual course of studies, the main object of all education is, in their opinion, to imbue their scholars with a firm belief in the indestructibility of the human soul, which, according to their belief, merely passes at death from one tenement to another; for by such doctrine alone, they say, which robs death of all its terrors, can the highest form of human courage be developed.

— Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico, VI, 13​

Hermeticism and mystery traditions:

The subtle body and reincarnation is a central and core tenet of the Hermetic tradition founded by Hermes, which is an off-shoot of the ancient Egyptian religion. It is the basis for the later mystery traditions and societies like the Rosecarians and Free masons, of which great European thinkers and scientists were members, including Issac Newton. These traditions were esoteric mainly because they opposed the orthodoxy of the Church. Groups which went public with these teachings faced the inquisition.


Non-Hindu Dharmic religions

In Dharmic religions we find the most detailed explanations of the subtle body as well as clear descriptions of techniques to realise it. This is because in India those who believed in pre-existence of soul were never persecuted, but rather the original Vedic doctrine became the foundation of every Dharmic religoon and also because of the intellectual climate of India where everything was studied threadbare.

Jainism:

In Jainism each jiva has three bodies: physical body(Sthua sharira), the subtle body(tejo sharira) and the causal body(kama sharira). In addition two other bodies can be manifested by yogis an energy double which they can send to perform some task(akhara sharira) and a shapeshifting body possessed by beings that can live in astral worlds which which can morph into any form(vahriika sharira) these are actually just two different type of created subtle bodies. It is the subtle body that reincarnates.

The subtle body is made out of extremely fine atoms which fill the space of the body like pixels. The physical body is out of really gross atoms, but if you zoom into the space of the gross atoms, they are in turn made of even more finer atoms, and if you zoom to the highest, each point in space is made of infinite super subtle atoms.

Buddhism:

In Buddhism there are three bodies known as the trikayas: They are manifest body(nirman kaya) the perfect enjoymentment body (sambhojakaya) and truth body (dharmakaya) but these are in respect to describing the three bodies of a Buddha who is a realised being while living, the ordinary people have three bodies in an unrealised state. In Vajra Buddhism one can through meditation practice gain control of the subtle body, project an energy body(illusion body) or develop a pure body of light(rainbow body) This body, though a body of a illusion transmigrates from life to life time, carrying karmic impressions, until one attains Buddhahood and awakens.


Thus you can see the universality of the subtle body and subtle worlds. In every culture those humans who can experience it are considered special or more advanced than others, and in even modern culture only a few people can consciously do it. The fact that it so universal indicates its objective existence, just as the universality of other so-called subjective phenomena like pain, pleasure and dreaming shows that it exists though we cannot subjectively experience another states, the universality of the experience of subtle bodies, beings and realms indicates its existence. Now we even have scientific evidence that they exist from the fields of parapsychology and indicators from modern physics. Thus it would be reasonable to accept the existence of the subtle body.

Cont.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Objections

These are some of the most common objections I encounter from other Hindus, which I felt needed to be addressed here:

We only take what our Hindu religion, or narrower my samapradaya says to be true, we do not care about other religions and samapradayas because they are false

Reply: We argue such people are narrow minded and ignorant of the universality of religious truths and have incorrectly understood the teaching of Hinduism which have a universalist approach, covering not just humans but all living beings. If something is true, then we would expect it to be found in all places and time periods, in some form or the other. To say that all other religions have no truth at all, is arrogant and frankly speaking, it is not the Hindu attitude. In Advaita we do not reject the truths of other religions, all religious truths are included in Advaita. We simply sublimate those truths into the highest truth of Brahman. That means we can explain their truth at the same time ours consistently without contradiction, but they cannot do the same with us because they do not extend as far as Brahman. Again the analogy of the mountain, the highest summit includes all previous vantages, but the lower do not include the higher.

Spiritual truths cannot be rationalised, intellectualised and scientifically studied

Reply: We argue that people who argue like this want to maintain the mysticism of religion and consider Advaitins threats because they seek to demystify and make religion clear for everybody. In Advaita we exist in a rational universe all the way from the lowest level of prakriti to the highest causal level. As it occurs in the realm of matter, space, time, causality it is available for study and analysis, in the same way physical matter is. When we demystify by explaining it, these truths are rendered practical realities which can be used for real transformation. The aim of Advaita is not set up a Church for exclusives to dispense salvation to the faithful, but to give every seeker the full comprehensive truth so they can fulfil their real objective.

I am not interested in astral worlds/lokas, devas, siddhis etc, they are just distractions, I just want to experience God

Repy: This is like saying I am not interested in high school physics, I am only interested in advanced Phd physics. You cannot get to advanced Phd physics, without first completing high school physics. Similarly, to get to the highest absolute reality, you need to pass through the grades of reality in between. It is for this reason in religions like Jainism and Buddhism the idea of God is considered a distraction. That is because the aspirant rather than focusing on their sadhana, gets distracted with discussions like is God personal or impersonal, form or without form, what is God's name, what does God look like and how many God's are there, how to pray to God. Such people just get caught up in beliefs, faiths and only use God to comfort themselves and continue with their 3D ways.

In Advaita we know God is the absolute and ultimate reality, the final goal of all existence. just as an inhabitant of 1D cant jump straight from 1D to 3D without passing 2D, the human being cannot jump straight from 3D to 50D without passing 4, 5, 6, 7 etc. We are teaching you practical spirituality by which you can go beyond your 3D reality. Real methods, real techniques and giving you the real science behind it. If you aim is "Moksha" then Advaita is the means to attain it. Hence, the teaching is given to be only an "adhikaari" one who is seriously desiring to liberate from samsara, this includes mainly the desire to leave the 3D part of samsara by developing intense dispassion for everything within it. Like the 2D inhabitant, the 3D inhabitants accept their limited and bound existence, and resist any attempt to tell them otherwise. If this is the case, then we simply say enjoy this existence with all its limitations and faults. Advaita is only for those seeking moksha(mumukshus) and we provide the means.

Next, we will discuss the subtle body purely from a Hindu point of view.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

The Subtle body, from the Hindu and Advaita perspective

We have so far looked at the logical arguments by analysing the gross body which shows the subtle body is indicated, and we have looked at the phenomenological argument, which shows that the universality of the experience of the subtle body and the attendant subtle worlds cross-culturally indicates it must be real.

We will now look at what Hindu shastras and gurus say about the subtle body. The earliest formal description of the subtle body, where the term was first mentioned is in the Samkhya shastra. The Samkhya shastra consists of two core texts which inform us about the philosophy Samkhyakarika and Samkhya sutras(believed to be a medieval reconstruction, as the original was lost) However, Samkhya philosophy is far older and is present in the Bhagvad Gita, the Maitryani and Svetasvatara Upanishad and in Ayurvedic texts. It is only the most extent systematic version we have of this is Ishvarkrishnas's Samkhyakarika.

I will offer commentaries, but my own commentary is informed by the Tattva Kaudimi or Vascaspati Mishra, a commentary by a traditional medieval Samkhya scholar.

Samkhya Karika:

39. The subtle bodies, bodies born of parents, together with the gross elements are the three kinds of specfics. Of these the subtle bodies are everlasting and those born of parents are perishable​

Commentary: Here the body born of parents refers to gross body. The gross body, gross elements and subtle body are specific(visesha) because there are many in number and type. There are many different gross bodies, we do not share the same gross body, your body is different from mine and mine from yours. I control mine, and you control yours. Similarly, the gross elements are many in number and type, there is not just one atom of gold but many atoms of gold, as there are many types of atoms gold, silver, iron etc. Similarly, there are many subtle bodies, we do not share the same minds, consisting of sense organs, motor organs, mind, intellect, ego, there are many minds and many types.

While the gross body perishes, the subtle body endures from body to body and thus lasts longer than the body. The next verse explains:

40. The mergent subtle body, produced primordially, unconfined, constant, composed of the tattvas beginning with Mahat and ending with tanmatras, free from experience and tinged with disposition​

Commentary: The subtle body is mergent meaning that on the final analysis it merged back into the causal state of unmanifest prakriti(causal body) However, it is also constant, because it comes into in manifest existence at the time of creation and endures to the time of dissolution, but at the time if dissolution the subtle body is not destroyed, but only merges back into the causal state. In the next cycle the subtle body returns replete with its previous instruments. It is unconfined with respect to the gross body and gross elements, and because of this it can pass through any gross object, even a mountain.

The subtle body contains your sense organs, motor organs, intellect and ego, they all accumulate dispositions based on the experiences of the subtle body it accumulates(sanchita karma) transmigrating from body to body.

Question: How can the subtle contain the senses organs etc when we find them in the gross body?

Reply: The gross body is dead/inert)(jada) it has no ability to sense anything, which is proven by a corpse. Our most beloved one who we spent years of our lives with, when they depart from their body, and leave a corpse, we don't want to be anywhere around that corpse, because there is no longer any mind there -- the mind has left with sense organs etc
Rather, the organs of the body are just the external manifestation of the subtle bodies(golaka) The fact that the subtle already contains the instruments is shown by even the most simple gross body of a living cell, the cell already contains all the instruments. More complex gross bodies like animals and humans contain far refined instruments.

As the instruments are in contained in the suble body and the subtle body is made out of subtle matter(tanmatras) their sphere of sense and control extends across the entire physical dimension i.e., through subtle eyes one can see anything anywhere in physical space(clairvoyance) through subtle speech one can communicate(telepathy) through subtle arms one can move physical objects(telekinesis) etc We cannot use subtle senses ordinarily, simply because we have a habit of only relying on the gross senses etc

Next, is explained why it is classified as a body:

41. As a painting cannot stand without a support, as a shadow cannot be without a stake, similarly the linga also cannot subsist without a subtle body and without support.​

Commentary: The sense organs etc need a vehicle or carrier that carries them that is unique, otherwise there would be no such thing as an individual person/mind. We are all different people because we have differently composed instruments, and hence a carrier is needed for those instruments, and hence why the subtle body is required. This makes your subtle body which we also call soul(though technically it is not) distinct from mine. I cannot remember your memories, you cannot remember mine, we each have our unique stream of consciousness.

42. Impelled by the purpose of the Purusha, the subtle body appears in different roles, like a dramatic player, by means of association with the instrumental causes and their effects, through the all-embracing power of nature​

Commentary: The Purusha or the soul(proper) is the Self, for which the subtle body is provided by nature to fulfil its goals, and if those goals are gross and physical, then the subtle body takes on gross bodies through association, not by actually fusing with it or joining it. It is because it is an association, that the association can be broken at death and during life(OBE, NDE) Due to the power of this association(maya) the subtle body believes it is that body e.g. a king if it a kings body. Nature provides the kings body because it needs to work through that karma. In the next life, it may have a beggars body, because of different karmic reasons. The ultimate goal is nature will provide everything the subtle body needs to reach Self-realisation in the form of birth, life span, health and experience. The subtle body has little control over this process, which is reported in all NDE's, the subject is forced or thrust back to return to the same gross body. In reincarnation it is forced into a new gross body.

43. Virtue and other dispositions are innate, of nature, and acquired. They are seen as residing in buddhi, the ovum and the rest in the body​

Commentary: The innate dispositions are soul dispositions which the Purusha already has they are infinite virtue, infinite knowledge, infinite dispassion and infinite power. The soul is the reservoir of all divine qualities. The innate dispositions manifest as the desire for bettering oneself, desire for knowledge, the desire to be free from all attachments and the desire for greater control over nature. Acquired dispositions are dispositions accumulated through the genes of parents, and dispositions brought over from the previous life in the chitta.

44. By virtue, ascent to higher planes, and by vice descent into lower planes take place; by knowledge liberation is obtained, while by reverse of it(ignorance) we get bound
45. From dispassion results absorption into prakrit; from the passion results transmigration; from power results unimpediment and the reverse the opposite(confinement)​

Commentary: Virtue, , dispassion and power do not develop one by one(as I argued earlier for sadhana chutushtaya) they develop concurrently with chitta-shuddi(purification of mind) and manifest naturally and automatically due to this churning. This is explained previously:

23: Buddhi is ascertainment or will . Virtue, knowledge, dispassion and power are its manifestations when the sattva attribute abounds. And the reverse of this when the tamas attribute abounds.​

Commentary: That is through the refinement of buddhi, its marks of virtue, knowledge, dispassion and power automatically increase i.e., you will naturally manifest these qualities the more purified your mind is. You cannot pretend to have these qualities, you either have them or you do not. The qualities you were born with plays a huge part in deciding where you are and how far you can go in a single life time. Some people are just born saintly(e.g. Guru Nanak, Mahavira, Buddha etc) and manifest it from childhood, others are born with criminal nature(e.g. serial killers)

When you develop virtues you will gain good karma(punya karma) which means you will ascend into the higher regions of the universe(rajasic and sattvic zones) on departing from this body. You will stay there for the duration of your good karma, after which you will need to return to the physical plane to earn more karma. Hence why it is called "karmabhumi" or field of action. Going through this process, will purify the mind and increase viveka, vairagaya and with this siddhis wil manifest. This is why saints manifest siddhis very quickly.

Cont.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Advaita definitions of the subtle body

We will look at the definitions from the standard glossary used in Advaita, the Tattva bodha:

That which is composed of five Mahabhutas (elements) prior to their undergoing the
process of Panchikarana, born of good actions of the past the instruments for
experiences of pleasure, pain etc. constituted of the seventeen items namely: the five
Jnanendriyas, (sense organs) the five karmendriyas, (the organs of action) the five Prans
(Prana, Apana, Udana, Samana and Vyana) the mind and the intellect is the Subtle body​

Composed of the 5 subtle elements: It is composed of the 5 subtle elements(tanmatras) in their pure unmixed form, hence each element has their purest quality: re air atoms(touch) fire atoms(colour) water atoms(taste) and the only non-atomic element ether(sound) When they undergo grossification(panchkarana) each atom splits into 1/2 and 1/8th of each join with the other atoms to form the gross versions re: Gross fire atom is 50% subtle fire atom, and 1/8th of air, water, earth and ether. The entire subtle world and the subtle body is made up of these subtle atoms in their purest forms. This is why the astral worlds are far more vivid in colour, sound etc and astral beings like apsaras have heavenly beauty or ghandarvas have heavenly voices.

Born of good actions.:The subtle body like the gross body evolves based on current actions, and the actions performed in the gross body, which leave karmic imprints in the subtle body causing the subtle body to refine. For example a single celled organism has a very basic subtle body, but through evolution its subtle body becomes more complex and its instruments more refined. The evolution proceeds from one sense organisms to 5 sense organisms, to 5 sense organs with minds. Hence, from the point of view of sadhana, the subtle body is the most important, because it is the subtle body that will bear fruits of any sadhana done in the current gross body over to the next. The gross body will perish at death, but the subtle body will carry everything over to the next. Hence, the wise consider the subtle body the most important body. Becoming aware of the subtle body is the first most important milestone of sadhana.

Constituted of the 17 instruments: re:

5 sense organs:

Hearing, manifest through the ears of gross body
Touching, manifest through the skin of gross body
Seeing, manfiest through the eyes of gross body
Tasting, manifest through the tongue of gross body
Smelling, manifest through the nose of gross body

5 motor organs:

Speaking, manifest through the vocal chords and mouth in the gross body
Grasping, manifest through the hands and limbs in the gross body
Moving, manifest through the legs in the gross body
Excreting, manifest through the anus in the gross body
Reproducing, manifest through the genitals in the gross body

5 Pranas or circulation system

Prana, manifest through the respiration system in the gross body
Apana, manifest through the the execretion system in the gross body
Vyana, manifest through the nervous system in the gross body
Samana, manifest in the metabolic and digestive system in the body
Udana, manifest through the growth, speech expression systems in the body

Mind, manifest through the reptilian brain in the gross body
Intellect, manifest through the neo cortex in the gross body
Ahamkara, manifest through the heart in the gross body

These systems are present in increasingly refined forms in all living organisms from the single celled bacteria to human beings, which refutes the Darwinian theory of natural selection, the blueprint for the evolution of gross bodies comes already from the subtle body. Here is the very first cell already has all these systems in perfect functioning order:

Cells may be self-sustaining units of life, but they don't live in isolation. Their survival depends on receiving and processing information from the outside environment, whether that information pertains to the availability of nutrients, changes in temperature, or variations in light levels. Cells also can communicate with one another — and change their own internal workings in response — by way of a variety of chemical and mechanical signals. In multicellular organisms, cell signaling allows for specialization of groups of cells. Multiple cell types can then join together to form tissues, such as muscle, blood, and brain tissue. In single-celled organisms, signaling allows populations of cells to coordinate with one another and work as a team to accomplish tasks no single cell could carry out on its own.​

"Bacteria sense a lot of different things. But assume it's a sugar molecule that a bacterium needs as a nutrient -- even a 0.1 percent change in concentration can be detected, and this sensitivity is maintained over five orders of magnitude in nutrient concentration," said Brian Crane, assistant professor of chemistry and chemical biology and corresponding author of the paper. "Biologically, I know of no other system that is so sensitive over such a large range.​

Therefore natural selection is refuted, living organisms did not just appear out of some chemical soup by random chance, they appeared already in a purely functioning state with all the instruments functioning in perfect order. The blueprint for the design comes from the subtle body.

The pranas are key in controlling the gross body, because they link up the subtle body with the gross body, allowing information to travel from the subtle body to the gross body and vis versa e.g. If you want to lift your hands, the intellect in the subtle body sends the signal to the mind which processes the signal, it then activates the motor organs of grasping which then activates the gross organ of grasping. This is why there is a milisecond delay between the signal from your brain to your hand. As the pranas are the direct link between your subtle body and gross body, through pranayama both the subtle body and gross body can be controlled. However, trying to control it purely through thought is close to impossible for most people, because the level of intellect is not directly linked to gross body. This kind of control is only achieved by highly advanced yogis.


The 5 Koshas

The koshas are the old Upanishadic schema of classifying the layers that make up a person, it is NOT a classification into bodies. The classification into bodies is developed by Samkhya to account for the carriers that carry the organs. If you divide the human body into layers, each layer is just a layer of the same body and not separate bodies. In the Upanishads the Koshas are divided into what are later resolved into their respective bodies by Samkhya

Annamaya kosha or Food layer:

What is the food sheath? That which is born of food, which grows by food, and goes
back to earth which is of the nature of food, is called the Food Sheath, this is the gross
body​

Pranamaya kosha or Vital layer:

What is the Vital Air Sheath? The five physiological functions such as Prana etc.(Prana,
Apana, Vyana, Udana and Samana) together with the five organs of action namely speech
etc., form the Pranamaya Kosa the Vital Air Sheath.​

Manomaya kosha or Mental layer:

What is the mental Sheath? The mind and the five organs of perception together form
the Mental Sheath​

Vijnanamaya kosha or Intellectual layer

What is the intellectual Sheath?
The intellect, along with the five organs of perception, together form the intellectual
Sheath.​

Anandamaya kosha or Bliss layer

What is the Bliss Sheath? Established in Avidya, which is of the form of the Causal
body, of impure nature united with the Vrittis (modifications) like Priya, Moda and
Pramoda.​

As you can see the Advaita scheme synthesises both the Upanishadic schema with the Samkhya schema to come up with the three bodies(sharira) schema. It is due to this confusion that modern new-age schemas posit as many as 5 bodies. This web site does a good job of tallying them up and showing the correspondences with the subtle body descriptions across traditions: The Subtle Body - some possible correspondences

As you can see they all agree the first body is the gross or physical body, the next is the etheric/pranic body, then follows the mental, astral or emotional body, then the intellectual or higher mental body and finally the spiritual body. That is to say that they each exist on a different plane of the universe and are differentiated by their character; gross(by physicality) pranic(by energy) mental/emotional(by desires, feelings) higher mental by thought and causal by pure intelligence.

In the Advaita scheme we simply resolve the into three bodies because they correspond to the three states of experience: Waking(Gross body) Dream(Subtle body) and Dreamless sleep(Causal body, discussed next) We do not need to posit several carriers for the instruments, otherwise we would have a bizarre situation where there is a separate carrier for the pranas and another for the sense organs and another for the mind, and if each is an independent body, how could they communicate with each other? Therefore, it is not the case they are separate bodies.

As you can see the Hindu shastra have the most clearest and scientific descriptions of the subtle body. Although the knowledge of the subtle body is present in non-Dharmic traditions, it is not as clear and scientific as it is in the original Hindu Aryan culture.

Cont.

 

[Spirit_Warrior]

Testimony from Hindu scriptures and gurus

We will not look at actual descriptions of the subtle body and astral projection from Hindu scriptures the Mahabharata and the Yoga Vasistha

Mahabharata:

When Drona is deceived that his son Aswadhamma has died, Drona gets up from his chariot and puts down his arms, sitting in meditation and then astrally projects out of his body:

abandoning his weapons, he was then in a supremely tranquil state. Having said those words he had devoted himself to Yoga. Endued with great effulgence and possessed of high ascetic merit, he had fixed his heart on that Supreme and Ancient Being, viz., Vishnu. Bending his face slightly down, and heaving his breast forward, and closing his eyes, and resting ort the quality of goodness, and disposing his heart to contemplation, and thinking on the monosyllable Om, representing. Brahma, and remembering the puissant, supreme, and indestructible God of gods, the radiant Drona or high ascetic merit, the preceptor (of the Kurus and the Pandavas) repaired to heaven that is so difficult of being attained even by the pious. Indeed, when Drona thus proceeded to heaven it seemed to us that there were then two suns in the firmament. The whole welkin was ablaze and seemed to be one vast expanse of equal light when the sun-like Bharadwaja, of solar effulgence, disappeared. Confused sounds of joy were heard, uttered by the delighted celestials. When Drona thus repaired to the region of Brahman, Dhrishtadyumna stood, unconscious of it all, beside him. Only we five amongst men beheld the high-souled Drona rapt in Yoga proceed to the highest region of blessedness. These five were myself, Dhananjaya, the son of Pritha, and Drona's son, Aswatthaman, and Vasudeva of Vrishni's race, and king Yudhishthira the just, the son of Pandu. Nobody else, O king, could see that glory of the wise Drona, devoted to Yoga, while passing out of the world. In fact, all human beings were unconscious of the fact that the preceptor attained to the supreme region of Brahman, a region mysterious to the very gods, and one that is the highest of all. Indeed, none of them could see the preceptor, that chastiser of foes, proceed to the region of Brahman, devoted to Yoga in the company of the foremost of Rishis, his body mangled with arrows and bathed in blood, after he had laid aside his weapons.​

Drona Parva, CXCIII​

Yoga Vasistha:

Rishi Vasistha recounts manty stories to instructs Lord Rama about the subtle body and astral travel. Here is the story of Leela and Goddess Saraswati, where Goddess Saraswati first instructs Leela about the subtle/astral body and then proceeds to take on her an astral travel journey to explore the astral worlds:

Instruction:

II When your sense of individual ego is moderated by your practice of meditation, then the perception of invisible will rise of itself clearly before your mind. 1 2 When spiritual knowledge gains a firm footing in your mind, you will perceive more other worlds than you expect. 13 Therefore, O blameless lady, try your utmost to deaden your desires. When you have gained sufficient strength in that practice, know yourself to be liberated in this life.
When the moon of your intellectual knowledge shines fully with its cooling beams, you shall have to leave your physical body here in order to see the other worlds. Your fleshy body has no tangible connection with one that is without flesh, nor can the intellectual body (lingadeha, astral body) perform any action of the physical system.​

The Astral travel begins:

They stood motionless on the spot, as if they were sculptures engraved on marble columns, or pictures drawn upon the wall. They shook off all their thoughts and cares, and became as withdrawn as the faded blossoms of the lotus at the end of the day when their fragrance has fled. 6 They remained still, calm and quiet and without any motion of their limbs, like a sheet of clouds hanging on the mountain top in the calm of autumn. 7 They continued in fixed attention without any external sensation, like some lonely vines shriveled for lack of moisture (in samadhi meditation). 8 They were fully impressed with the disbelief of their own existence, and that of all other things in the world. They were completely absorbed in the thought of an absolute privation of everything at large. 9 They lost memory of the phantom of the phenomenal world, which is as unreal as the horn of a hare. 10 What had no existence in the beginning is still non-existent at present, and what appears existent is as non-existent as water in a mirage. The two ladies became as quiet as inert nature herself, and as still as the sky before the stars rolled about in its ample sphere. Then they began to move with their own bodies, the goddess of wisdom in her form of intelligence and the queen in her intellectual and meditative mood. With their new bodies they rose as high as the width of a hand above the ground, then taking the forms of empty consciousness, they began to rise in the sky. Then the two ladies, their playful open eyes and by their nature of intellectual knowledge, ascended to the higher region of the sky. They flew higher and higher by force of their intellect and arrived at a region stretching millions of miles in length. The pair in their ethereal forms looked around according to their nature in search of some visible objects, but finding no other figure except their own, they became much more attached to each other by their mutual affection.​

Description of the astral worlds:

1 Vasishta continued: —​

Thus ascending higher and higher, and by degrees reaching the highest station, they continued viewing
the heavens with their hands clasped together.

2 They saw a vast expanse like a wide extended universal ocean, deep and translucent within, but soft
with ethereal mildness. A cooling breeze infused heavenly delight. 3 They dived into the vast ocean of
emptiness, all delightful and pleasant. It gave them a delight far greater in its purity than what is
derived from the company of the virtuous. 4 They wandered about all sides of heaven under the beams
of the full moon shining above them They lingered under the clear vault of clouds covering the
mountain tops of Meru, as if under the dome of a huge white washed building.

5 They roved by the regions of spiritual masters (siddhas, adepts) and male nature spirits
(gandharvas). They breathed the charming fragrance of mandara garlands and, passing the lunar
sphere, they inhaled the sweet scent exhaled by the breeze from that nectar-like lunar orb.

6 Tired and perspiring profusely, they bathed in the lakes of showering clouds filled with the blushing
lotuses of lurid lightning flashing within them. 7 They freely strolled at random on all sides, and
alighted on the tops of high mountains like fluttering bees, appearing like filaments of the lotus-like
earth below. 8 They also roved under the vaults of some cloud fragments scattered by the winds, and
raining like the cascade of the Ganges River, thinking them as shower bath-houses in the air. 9 Then
failing in their strength, they paused in many places with slow and slackened steps.

They saw emptiness full of great and wonderful works. 10 They saw what they had never seen before,
the tremendous depth of the void that was not filled up by the myriads of worlds which kept revolving
in it. n Over and over and higher and higher, they saw the celestial spheres filled with luminous orbs
adorned with their ornamental stars wandering one above and around the other. 12 Huge mountainous
bodies like Mount Meru moved about in empty space and emitted a reddish glare on all sides, like a
flame of fire from within their bowels. 1 3 There were beautiful tablelands, like those of the
Himalayas, with their pearly peaks of snow. There were mountains of gold spreading a golden color
over the land. 14 In one place they saw mountains of emerald tinting the landscape with a lush green
like a field of fresh grass. In other places they saw some dark cloud dimming the sight of the spectator
and hiding the spectacle in dark blackness. 15 They saw also tracts of blue sapphire with vines of
parijata flowers blooming like banners in the blue skies.

16 They saw the minds of spiritual masters (siddhas) in flight faster than the swift winds. They heard
the vocal music of the songs of heavenly nymphs in their aerial abodes. 17 All the great bodies in the
universe (the planetary system) were in continual motion. Spirits of the gods and demigods moved
about unseen by one another. 18 Groups of spiritual beings, the kushmandas, rakshasas and pisachas,
were seated in aerial circles at the borders. Winds and gales blew with full force in their ethereal
course. 19 In some places they heard clouds roaring loudly, like the rumbling wheels of heavenly cars,
and the noise of rapid stars resembled the blowing of pneumatic engines.​