Hinduism and LGBT

[Kapalika]

So yesterday on Facebook I posted a picture of me and my girlfriend kissing with our faces mostly of obscured by my amazing hair and an Indian Hindu I met in a facebook group messaged me saying "Who's that guy?".

I told him it wasn't a guy, but my girlfriend and he responds "Girlfriend? Don't tell me now you are a lesbian." I was honestly a little surprised by this response.

Anyways I am certain this topic has been broached before on here (although I can't seem to find the topic I recall). Actually, for some reason and probably a language barrier, the few Indian Hindus I do have on my friends seem to not realize I am transgender, even though I've posted about it rarely. Anyways that all said... I've never encountered anything that says it's wrong to be gay or bisexual in Hinduism. Yes, certain things and roles are assumed to be heterosexual even in Tantra, but I don't think it necessarily has to be that way as the gendered things are not literal at the highest levels and honestly Shiva and Shakti are the same anyways just different aspects of it (at least in Kashmir Shaivism).

I have my own views but I think it would be important to hear others' takes on it. This isn't really something I've had to get into before, bisexuality and homosexuality within Hinduism. I just know that I'm not alone in my feelings as a Hindu on this topic, but I don't know of how to theologically frame sexuality (gender is much easier for me to frame, as I did above).

EDIT: Also for the record as far as I can tell I'm some amount of bisexual, not a lesbian, if that matters any

 

[Kapalika]

Best arguement for LGBT from Hindu perspective I know is this:

HAF Policy Brief: Hinduism and Homosexuality

 

[ajay0]

In Hinduism, there is no scriptural discrimination against transgenders and homosexuals.

In fact, you can see in the Mahabharatha, Krishna tactically deploying the transgender archer Shikhandi to fight against the opposing general Bheesma which eventually lead to his defeat. It is also considered inauspicious to harm or offend a transgender in Indian culture.

All this talk of homosexuality or lesbianism amongst Hindus, as you have mentioned, is just an outcome of western cultural influence in recent times probably stemming from their religious conditioning.

 

[SomeRandom]

Considering Kali is often considered the protector of homosexuals and transgendered people, I certainly wouldn’t want to offend or hurt the LGBT community.

 

[Kapalika]

Well despite what you two pointed out, which is also mentioned in that article, the guy claims he never read that in the mahabharata and says it's "against nature" and stuff. He thinks I'm "going the wrong way".

He gave me a way to contact his Guru and he said my link and anything else was "fake" he didn't even read the link or anything so I'm not sure what to do.

Considering Kali is often considered the protector of homosexuals and transgendered people, I certainly wouldn’t want to offend or hurt the LGBT community.

Could you elaborate on this and source it? I've not heard this before but want to learn more about it.

 

[ajay0]

Well despite what you two pointed out, which is also mentioned in that article, the guy claims he never read that in the mahabharata and says it's "against nature" and stuff. He thinks I'm "going the wrong way".

You can give him the following links...

Shikhandi - Wikipedia

Modern day retelling of Shikhandi will attempt to blur gender lines - Times of India

He gave me a way to contact his Guru and he said my link and anything else was "fake" he didn't even read the link or anything so I'm not sure what to do.

Then just ignore him as he ignored your links.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Best argument for LGBT from Hindu perspective I know is this: HAF Policy Brief: Hinduism and Homosexuality

That was a long answer and I did not read it. LGBTQ have been mentioned (not derisively) in Hindu scripture. An average Hindu accepts them as part of the society. Indian law forbids any discrimination and gives many facilities to such people (Indian forces have not yet permitted it). We have deity forms which merge the male and female, and deities considered special to LGBTQ who are equally revered by heterosexuals: Iravan, Yellamma and Bahuchara Mata (there may be more that I do not know about). Yes, marriages take place in LGBTQ societies though they are ignored by heterosexuals.

 

[Terese]

I posted this thread a while ago. I hope it helps

LGBT Vaishnavas and Hindus

Best not to reply to the person in your OP. It looks like he's made up his mind about sexuality/gender and arguing with him won't create a beneficial outcome. Him saying its "against nature" is a very Abrahamic concept and has no basis in Hindu thought.

(This is my opinion. Would appreciate someone correcting me if this is unfounded) What Indians do culturally can be very different to what they do religiously. America is considered a fairly prevalent Christian influenced nation. In the Bible Jesus talks about many peaceful and egalitarian things. However the average Christian does not hold these values. So too would this apply in India.

 

[stvdv]

I have my own views but I think it would be important to hear others' takes on it. This isn't really something I've had to get into before, bisexuality and homosexuality within Hinduism. I just know that I'm not alone in my feelings as a Hindu on this topic, but I don't know of how to theologically frame sexuality (gender is much easier for me to frame, as I did above).
EDIT: Also for the record as far as I can tell I'm some amount of bisexual, not a lesbian, if that matters any

I spend many years with my Master in India. Once there was a gay man in my room. He got an interview and my Master told him "Are you married?". The man replied "no, I am not married". Next year he came again, and again interview. My Master said "I will give you a wife". And the man replied "No, I am gay, I don't want a wife". Next year he came again, and again interview. My Master again told him "I will give you a wife". Now the man said "No, I am gay and I am happy to be gay". And my Master replied "I will give you wife ... and after one year you will be happy with wife also".

Many people desired interviews with my Master, but only very few got it. He got even 3 interviews. So I can't believe that God condemns being gay (and He should not, because religious people claim that God created man, so if one is gay it is God's responsibility and not His to judge).

From hearing his story, I got the feeling that my Master helped him, to accept his feeling and overcome being shy about it or feeling bad. Because many people love to play the "you should feel guilty" card on gay people.

My Master did a similar thing with me. I never stood up for my own feelings and let people cross over my borders. So my Master kicked me out of interview maybe 10 times. But everytime I became a little more courages and asked him if I could stay etc. But He kept kicking me out, until I finally said "Why do you send me out all the time?" .. And He replied "You have had enough interviews ... now it's time for other people". That was a good answer, I could debate that one. I had to speak up for myself and what I wanted.

Once I asked my Master "I feel no Love", to which He replied "Love your feeling", and I said "I feel terrible". Then my Master was silent. Oeps "I need to accept also this **** feeling". I believe on the Spiritual Quest it's all about our feelings and come clean with them.

Edit: My Master does not judge (gay) people. He just wants all to be happy. So if you are gay be "happy gay". And don't let the judgments of others pull you down. This man was able to speak out to his Master "I am okay being gay". So I think he overcame all fear and rejection of people, knowing that his Master is not judging him.

 

[Sirona]

I've forgotten how they are called but I've seen a documentary about a social group in India consisting of mostly castrated males who wear women's clothes and live among themselves by their own rules. (It was stated that the tax authority sends them to people who don't pay their taxes because their singing and dancing was considered awkward for the debtor.) I read a book on Pakistan where those eunuchs where also mentioned, and they are also mentioned in the Chaitanya Charitamrta where they pay homage to baby Chaitanya.

 

[Shantanu]

So yesterday on Facebook I posted a picture of me and my girlfriend kissing with our faces mostly of obscured by my amazing hair and an Indian Hindu I met in a facebook group messaged me saying "Who's that guy?".

I told him it wasn't a guy, but my girlfriend and he responds "Girlfriend? Don't tell me now you are a lesbian." I was honestly a little surprised by this response.

Anyways I am certain this topic has been broached before on here (although I can't seem to find the topic I recall). Actually, for some reason and probably a language barrier, the few Indian Hindus I do have on my friends seem to not realize I am transgender, even though I've posted about it rarely. Anyways that all said... I've never encountered anything that says it's wrong to be gay or bisexual in Hinduism. Yes, certain things and roles are assumed to be heterosexual even in Tantra, but I don't think it necessarily has to be that way as the gendered things are not literal at the highest levels and honestly Shiva and Shakti are the same anyways just different aspects of it (at least in Kashmir Shaivism).

I have my own views but I think it would be important to hear others' takes on it. This isn't really something I've had to get into before, bisexuality and homosexuality within Hinduism. I just know that I'm not alone in my feelings as a Hindu on this topic, but I don't know of how to theologically frame sexuality (gender is much easier for me to frame, as I did above).

EDIT: Also for the record as far as I can tell I'm some amount of bisexual, not a lesbian, if that matters any

As long as you are happy with yourself, you are practicing truth accommodation. Don't let anyone tell you that you are being abnormal.

I once asked God about homosexuality and these deviant sexual activities and He said that it was wrong. I listened, asking why He had made homosexuals and LGBT people if it was wrong. He said it was due to the fact that He created a self sustaining universe in which there are sattvic rajasic and tamasic guna influences emanating from our consciousness. I understood by that that tamasic people are most inclined not to behave normally, whereas sattvic people would behave normally.

 

[Shantanu]

I've forgotten how they are called but I've seen a documentary about a social group in India consisting of mostly castrated males who wear women's clothes and live among themselves by their own rules. (It was stated that the tax authority sends them to people who don't pay their taxes because their singing and dancing was considered awkward for the debtor.) I read a book on Pakistan where those eunuchs where also mentioned, and they are also mentioned in the Chaitanya Charitamrta where they pay homage to baby Chaitanya.

I have not heard that but I know when a child is born, these abnormal people visit peoples homes and chant and have to be given money or it would being bad luck on the child and family: all superstitious to accommodate hermaphrodites. You have to have a way of dealing with them while carrying out ones dharmic activities. As for transgenders that is just adharma.

 

[Shantanu]

I posted this thread a while ago. I hope it helps

LGBT Vaishnavas and Hindus

Best not to reply to the person in your OP. It looks like he's made up his mind about sexuality/gender and arguing with him won't create a beneficial outcome. Him saying its "against nature" is a very Abrahamic concept and has no basis in Hindu thought.

(This is my opinion. Would appreciate someone correcting me if this is unfounded) What Indians do culturally can be very different to what they do religiously. America is considered a fairly prevalent Christian influenced nation. In the Bible Jesus talks about many peaceful and egalitarian things. However the average Christian does not hold these values. So too would this apply in India.

In Hinduism the core philosophy is dharma: if one is male and is able to have sexual relations with a woman, he must follow that course of action. If one is a female, she must also carry out her dharmic duties to her sex and so engage in sexual activity with a male. Without dharma morality is pointless according to Hindus.

 

[Shantanu]

That was a long answer and I did not read it. LGBTQ have been mentioned (not derisively) in Hindu scripture. An average Hindu accepts them as part of the society. Indian law forbids any discrimination and gives many facilities to such people (Indian forces have not yet permitted it). We have deity forms which merge the male and female, and deities considered special to LGBTQ who are equally revered by heterosexuals: Iravan, Yellamma and Bahuchara Mata (there may be more that I do not know about). Yes, marriages take place in LGBTQ societies though they are ignored by heterosexuals.

Who mentioned them: if the LGBTQ community create their deities that does not legitimise the deity as a generally acceptable for sattvic people. So you cannot say that Hinduism facilitates LGBTQ activities. They are on the margins of society.

 

[Shantanu]

Considering Kali is often considered the protector of homosexuals and transgendered people, I certainly wouldn’t want to offend or hurt the LGBT community.

Do you worship Kali?

 

[Shantanu]

I spend many years with my Master in India. Once there was a gay man in my room. He got an interview and my Master told him "Are you married?". The man replied "no, I am not married". Next year he came again, and again interview. My Master said "I will give you a wife". And the man replied "No, I am gay, I don't want a wife". Next year he came again, and again interview. My Master again told him "I will give you a wife". Now the man said "No, I am gay and I am happy to be gay". And my Master replied "I will give you wife ... and after one year you will be happy with wife also".

Many people desired interviews with my Master, but only very few got it. He got even 3 interviews. So I can't believe that God condemns being gay (and He should not, because religious people claim that God created man, so if one is gay it is God's responsibility and not His to judge).

From hearing his story, I got the feeling that my Master helped him, to accept his feeling and overcome being shy about it or feeling bad. Because many people love to play the "you should feel guilty" card on gay people. My Master did a similar thing with me. I never stood up for my own feelings and let people cross over my borders. So my Master kicked me out of interview maybe 10 times. But everytime I became a little more courages and asked him if I could stay etc. But He kept kicking me out, until I finally said "Why do you send me out all the time?" .. And He replied "You have had enough interviews ... now it's time for other people". That was a good answer, I could debate that one. I had to speak up for myself and what I wanted.

Once I asked my Master "I feel no Love", to which He replied "Love your feeling", and I said "I feel terrible". Then my Master was silent. Oeps "I need to accept also this **** feeling". I believe on the Spiritual Quest it's all about our feelings and come clean with them.

Why did he keep coming to see your Master after he was told that he would be found a wife.The Master was trying to correct his adharmic sexual conduct. I would like to know more about this Master.

 

[Terese]

In Hinduism the core philosophy is dharma: if one is male and is able to have sexual relations with a woman, he must follow that course of action. If one is a female, she must also carry out her dharmic duties to her sex and so engage in sexual activity with a male. Without dharma morality is pointless according to Hindus.

So you would consider same sex relations as adharmic? Not following their dharmic duties? Which is more important to you: love, or procreation? Because i assume you say its adharmic because you believe they cannot have children (which they can, adoption is fortunately an option).

I personally do not see immorality in same sex relationships.

 

[Shantanu]

So you would consider male male and female female relations as adharmic? Not following their dharmic duties? Which is more important to you: love, or procreation?

Neither love or procreation, it is only the actions that are important in dharma.

 

[Terese]

Neither love or procreation, it is only the actions that are important in dharma.

Ah i see, thank you for clarifying

May i ask what actions same sex couples perform that is adharmic?

 

[Shantanu]

Ah i see, thank you for clarifying

May i ask what actions same sex couples perform that is adharmic?

Loving another person of the same sex is adharmic.