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Hinduism and the Bible

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
This is my position as well. If you're quoting scripture at me, unless it comes from the Devi Gita or the Chandi Path, it has no bearing on my life whatsoever.
I don't really like anybody quoting anything at me. If I ask, sure. We were at Tiruchendur on temple 2 of the famous Arupaduveedu pilgrimage to Murugan in South India. ISKCON devotees were on walkway to the entrance yelling and peddling their goods. Most people like me just ignored them. It was unsettling for some, and the temple authorities were put in a spot, not wanting to toss other Hindus from a Hindu temple for creating a disturbance. I just wanted to take one of them by the hand and inside for darshan of the vel wielder. But even another Hindu god isn't a God to them. But it did illustrate the difference between people of the book, versus people of the experience, all right within Hinduism.

Lord Murugan shone his Eyes of brilliant glory into mine, piercing the maya with His divine Vel, dispelling ignorance for a few moments of bliss. The ISKCONites stayed angry at their lack of attention.
 

Vinidra

Jai Mata Di!
I don't really like anybody quoting anything at me. If I ask, sure. We were at Tiruchendur on temple 2 of the famous Arupaduveedu pilgrimage to Murugan in South India. ISKCON devotees were on walkway to the entrance yelling and peddling their goods. Most people like me just ignored them. It was unsettling for some, and the temple authorities were put in a spot, not wanting to toss other Hindus from a Hindu temple for creating a disturbance. I just wanted to take one of them by the hand and inside for darshan of the vel wielder. But even another Hindu god isn't a God to them. But it did illustrate the difference between people of the book, versus people of the experience, all right within Hinduism.

Lord Murugan shone his Eyes of brilliant glory into mine, piercing the maya with His divine Vel, dispelling ignorance for a few moments of bliss. The ISKCONites stayed angry at their lack of attention.

That is amazing. :)
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
The Bible? You know it. It's that big black book that Christians hit people over the head with.

Actually, like you always say, "different paradigms". But, as we all know, it's mainly Christians, not Jews, that are pushing their views of what they think the Bible teaches. And then is mostly the conservative/evangelical/fundy Christians that are saying that all people are sinners and were born in sin and need to get saved. If not God will send them to hell. Like we know, even other Abrahamics distance themselves from such extreme beliefs. But what can people in the other religions do? How does a person argue with people that their way is the only way? Maybe your response is right on... "The Bible? Never heard of it."
There's a way to present the Gospel that isn't so offensive and obnoxious. Obviously if a person isn't open to it, there's no point in pushing it. But certainly we can still be friends. I am friendly with people of all sorts of religions and none. Yes, rude and hateful Christians have done much damage. But there's also hateful Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs and so on. I've seen a few of them on here spouting hateful rhetoric towards followers of Abrahamic religions, while ignoring the faults in their religions and excusing human rights violations (such as the fascist Hindutva movement). It goes both ways.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Does accepting the Bible's teachings lead one to some very anti-Hindu perspectives on account the Bible seems to be against polytheism and idol worship?

Exodus 20:3-5
Exodus 20:4-6


The Bible teaches us to use our minds, our common sense
This common sense tells us why should we worship something which somebody's hands have made
This same common sense tells us, to think

source.gif


Isaiah 44:9-20 New International Version (NIV)

All who make idols are nothing,
and the things they treasure are worthless.
Those who would speak up for them are blind;
they are ignorant, to their own shame.
Who shapes a god and casts an idol,
which can profit nothing?
People who do that will be put to shame;
such craftsmen are only human beings.
Let them all come together and take their stand;
they will be brought down to terror and shame.

laguna_roadtrip_07-photo-by-jay-javier.jpg


The blacksmith takes a tool
and works with it in the coals;
he shapes an idol with hammers,
he forges it with the might of his arm.
He gets hungry and loses his strength;
he drinks no water and grows faint.
The carpenter measures with a line
and makes an outline with a marker;
he roughs it out with chisels
and marks it with compasses.
He shapes it in human form,
human form in all its glory,
that it may dwell in a shrine
.

images


He cut down cedars,
or perhaps took a cypress or oak.
He let it grow among the trees of the forest,
or planted a pine, and the rain made it grow.
It is used as fuel for burning;
some of it he takes and warms himself,
he kindles a fire and bakes bread.
But he also fashions a god and worships it;
he makes an idol and bows down to it.

Half of the wood he burns in the fire;
over it he prepares his meal,
he roasts his meat and eats his fill.
He also warms himself and says,
“Ah! I am warm; I see the fire.”

PH_Urban_woman-cooking.jpg


From the rest he makes a god, his idol;
he bows down to it and worships.
He prays to it and says,
“Save me! You are my god!


images


They know nothing, they understand nothing;
their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see,
and their minds closed so they cannot understand.
No one stops to think,
no one has the knowledge or understanding to say,

images


“Half of it I used for fuel;
I even baked bread over its coals,
I roasted meat and I ate.
Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left?
Shall I bow down to a block of wood?”
Such a person feeds on ashes; a deluded heart misleads him;
he cannot save himself, or say,
“Is not this thing in my right hand a lie?”


upload_2020-5-28_19-31-2.jpeg
 

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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
That is amazing. :)
Murugan's (or any other God's) darshan (shakti, energy) is always amazing. That's why we have bhaktars. But if you can't feel it, you can't get it. Tears of bliss are abundant in our Hindu temples. The curtain between the worlds is weak there.
(Most especially as the curtain opens)
Hope you have a good day.

 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Both polytheistic and monotheistic? How does that work out?
Easy. Philosopical Hinduism is a metaphysical "religion;" a religion of theoretical physics and mysticism.
It posits multiple, nested realities, perceptible from different levels of consciousness. In one reality there may be multiple gods, in another just a single god or no god.
Even from our familiar, third-state viewpoint, many are henotheistic, many polytheistic or monotheistic. Some are atheistic.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In this case then, you will have to figure how much difference there is between the God of Christianity and the God/Brahman of Hinduism. Some have found no difference, others have found lots and lots. Your response will depend on what you yourself find.
Me, I see a great deal of difference between Brahman and any sort of god, but popular Hinduism does have a great many comparable god personages to chose from.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It would be more shocking to have a Ganesha murthi at the door of a Christian home. But you are highly unlikely to see that.
LOL! -- Now you've got me picturing a Shiva-lingam on a Christian alter....:eek:
Stop it!
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
LOL! -- Now you've got me picturing a Shiva-lingam on a Christian alter....:eek:
Stop it!
I should get a few small ones, sneak into Catholic Mass (with my trench coat on, obviously), and put them right at the feet of _________ .

In Mauritius the road shrine sides to Mary, Jesus, Ganesha, or Murugan often look similar from the outside ... so you have to actually stop and look inside. Very rarely any vandalism.

But I do know of a situation where a Christian did their 'duty' and totally wrecked a Hindu shrine because of all the sin of idol worship.
 

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
Ever read the Gita?

@KAT-KAT

I think you would be very well advised (if you are serious about the Sanatan Dharma - I am fond of the term "Eternal Path / Way of Life" rather than "Hinduism" which IMO tends to geographically limit the philosophy), to seriously consider @metis sage advice quoted above


I have found myself enthralled in my reading of the Gita

Here is one place you can make a start if interested

Also if you read Quora - seek out the posts by Rami Sivan - he has comprehensive knowledge of the major Abrahamic faiths and IMHO draws accurate comparisons with direct quotes

Consider these statements -

Gita 7:6
etad-yonīni bhūtāni sarvāṇītyupadhāraya
ahaṁ kṛitsnasya jagataḥ prabhavaḥ pralayas tathā

Know that all living beings are manifested by these two energies of mine. I am the source of the entire creation, and into me it again dissolves.

Gita 7:7
mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñchid asti dhanañjaya
mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva

There is nothing higher than myself, O Arjun. Everything rests in me, as beads strung on a thread.

Gita 7:21
yo yo yāṁ yāṁ tanuṁ bhaktaḥ śhraddhayārchitum ichchhati
tasya tasyāchalāṁ śhraddhāṁ tām eva vidadhāmyaham

Whatever celestial form a devotee seeks to worship with faith, I steady the faith of such a devotee in that form.


Gita 7:22
sa tayā śhraddhayā yuktas tasyārādhanam īhate
labhate cha tataḥ kāmān mayaiva vihitān hi tān

Endowed with faith, the devotee worships a particular celestial god and obtains the objects of desire. But in reality I alone arrange these benefits.

Finally

Gita 11:7
ihaika-sthaṁ jagat kṛitsnaṁ paśhyādya sa-charācharam
mama dehe guḍākeśha yach chānyad draṣhṭum ichchhasi

Behold now, Arjun, the entire universe, with everything moving and non-moving, assembled together in my universal form. Whatever else you wish to see, observe it all within this universal form.

IMO - that is plainly saying that Lord Krishna - regarded as the very embodiment of the Universe itself - "powers" to use a contemporary web term - other religions and beliefs and their practices

Also remember that both Krishna (Vishnu) and Lord Shiva are regarded as very close and perhaps manifestations of the same ultimate reality / truth

You are welcome to choose any one or be an atheist like @Aupmanyav and study Vedanta - Adwaita - non duality

IOW - there is lot to explore - with one significant exception to the Abrahamic faiths - there is zero threat of consequences like eternal torture etc

We are always here for questions should you have them - I have to say I am also learning - there are people on here like @Vinayaka @Aupmanyav @SalixIncendium @Valjean @sun rise @sayak83 @atanu and others with far far more knowledge than I have

I shall end with this quote

Gita 18:63

iti te jñānam ākhyātaṁ guhyād guhyataraṁ mayā
vimṛiśhyaitad aśheṣheṇa yathechchhasi tathā kuru

Thus, I have explained to you this knowledge that is more secret than all secrets.
Ponder over it deeply, and then do as you wish.

Be well @KAT-KAT

From a fellow seeker
 
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DKH

Member
Kat-Kat said:
Does accepting the Bible's teachings lead one to some very anti-Hindu perspectives on account the Bible seems to be against polytheism and idol worship?

Unfortunately, yes. The O.T. is clearly anti-polytheism and anti-idol worship. The N.T. may fall into a different category, depending how one views its contents. Yet, one needs to avoid from judging others. It seems that one who judges may also be judged…
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Does accepting the Bible's teachings lead one to some very anti-Hindu perspectives on account the Bible seems to be against polytheism and idol worship?

Exodus 20:3-5
Exodus 20:4-6

Now my last sentence is of course flexible statements. Some might argue Christianity has multiple gods, and that it's of course not so black and white that Hindu people worship idols, and say that is what the Bible meant, and that Hindu people just use them in practice. But do you expect that to always be taken into account?

But looking at the overall picture, if one wishes to put themselves at a point firmly within the Hindu faith, should they accept the Bible because doing so helps others accept them, or should they take a very cautious approach because this very book could cause some pretty anti-Hindu views, even if it's arguable whether they are perfectly spelled out?

And to further make the connection that the Bible could cause anti-Hindu perspectives, I will put it like this... I'd say most people of the Abrahamic faith love their God. Yet according to the Bible, God hates other gods and graven images. When one loves another, they tend to dislike the obstacles in their loved one's path most of the time.

I'm not saying I firmly believe everything I have written here. Not real firmly. But I don't want to write more that will soften my thoughts, without first hearing some perspectives.
When religions go exclusive, then it is not the Hindu thinking. Even if some Hindus do it, it is against the general principle of Hinduism. In Hinduism, there is no 'only gate' and 'no final messenger'. It is wrong to insist on one God and other things unless they can show us conclusive proof that there is just one God, one son and the last messenger, or to compel how they should worship God/Gods/Goddesses. Hindus have been worshiping idols for at least 5,000 years (Indus valley civilization). Have we harmed any one or has it harmed ourselves in any way.

I will continue in this very post after some time.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Unfortunately, yes. The O.T. is clearly anti-polytheism and anti-idol worship. The N.T. may fall into a different category, depending how one views its contents. Yet, one needs to avoid from judging others. It seems that one who judges may also be judged…
In my opinion it's not monotheism vs polytheism that separates the Hindu and Abrahamic religions. That's just a minor detail. It's the whole world-view: the structure and nature of the universe, how it all works; Reality vs reality, consciousness, good and evil, divine judgement, the soul, the goals, the afterlife -- all radically different.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
The Bible has credibility. Hindu writings do not.

I've read and studied the Bible, the Upanishads, and am in the process of studying the Bhagavad Gita. What Hindu scriptures have you read and/or studied?
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
This may be a hard one. So my question. Does accepting the Bible's teachings lead one to some very anti-Hindu perspectives on account the Bible seems to be against polytheism and idol worship?

Exodus 20:3-5
Exodus 20:4-6

Now my last sentence is of course flexible statements. Some might argue Christianity has multiple gods, and that it's of course not so black and white that Hindu people worship idols, and say that is what the Bible meant, and that Hindu people just use them in practice. But do you expect that to always be taken into account?

But looking at the overall picture, if one wishes to put themselves at a point firmly within the Hindu faith, should they accept the Bible because doing so helps others accept them, or should they take a very cautious approach because this very book could cause some pretty anti-Hindu views, even if it's arguable whether they are perfectly spelled out?

And to further make the connection that the Bible could cause anti-Hindu perspectives, I will put it like this... I'd say most people of the Abrahamic faith love their God. Yet according to the Bible, God hates other gods and graven images. When one loves another, they tend to dislike the obstacles in their loved one's path most of the time.

I'm not saying I firmly believe everything I have written here. Not real firmly. But I don't want to write more that will soften my thoughts, without first hearing some perspectives.

First, Brahman, the highest truth of the Hindus is non-dual brahman -- infinite, existence, consciousness. There is no scope for 'True' many Gods. On this, there is a famous discussion with Yajnyavalkya in Brahadarayanaka Upanishad. Sages repeatedly ask Yajnyavalka "How many Gods are there Yajnyavalka?". The answer is 'No Second'.

Second, according to the Brahmasutra (the one defining treatise on Vedanta followed by all schools of Hinduism), the 'murtis' (loosely translated as idols) are tools of meditation (prescribed by teachers of different schools as per their wisdom and vision). Svetastavtara Upanishad clearly states that the Supreme Truth has no Murti - no form.

Third. Let us ask Christians as to what they understand by 'idol'. I guess that a very few will say that the 'body' is the idol. IDEALISING AND WORSHIPPING THE BODY AND ITS REQUIREMENTS IS 'IDOL WORSHIP' AS PER VEDANTIC TEACHERS.

...
 
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