Krishna that we worship is not the white Krishna( he is considered deity). the Krishna that is worshiped in India is dark Krishna( the picture depict the human form and effort maker). the Krishna that is living in heaven has nothing to do with worship. But again Krishna is shown as supreme soul and supreme is teaching as if he is Krishna. The supreme cannot be coming down and doing karma as we human do. He has to get things done by top souls. Supreme can give a general knowledge about self and drama. So both Asur and non-asur Brahmins( deity religious souls) will be given equal chance to liberate themselves from sorrow and vices and there by become pure and assist the souls of the world to liberate them from the cycle in the end of kalpa. this way supreme soul is not responsible for the act of dark souls. Again predetermined also play a role in here. For example again Mughal soul or British soul will be body conscious no matter how much tapasya that kind of soul does. This is also give proof for the creation of heaven when the supreme comes down . The degradation can be caused by teaching of MUNI, rishi, and others. Besides the gods like ram or Krishna or Shakti ever wrote any book. It is written by the Munis who mastered academics of Veda. In ramayan it is said rama is not that fluent in sankrist or even Vedas. whereas ravan was. the difference is ram carries Shiva with him whereas ravan try to take Kailas on his shoulder because of the knowledge and poor skill for making an inference for the self. soul of ram cannot be taking a breaking leaving his wife and going to Himalaya when islam invade India. soul of ram can actually take a break today and do tapasya because doing a physical fight for India in todays time would not be an appropriate thing to do. furthermore doing a tapasya when sex lust is present in every fibre of life is different than going to do tapasya in the Himalaya and free from any obstacle. the one who can withstand any type of pressure and be oneself is considered diamond. so the sanyasi who chose to do easy tapasya is never worshiped in India. despite fact sanyasi killed the soul and wrote several stupidities in the Vedas and other books the reality is souls like ram and supreme athma is reality. And the supreme would not send some body in the middle of creation to uplift souls. if he send some one then he has to take all the responsibility of the sanyasi although they are not as dark as Ibrahim or Christ or Muhammad non of those mahatmas made the world a better place of dharma values. the soul of Hinduism continued to come down and also some of them become slave of mogul or British. obviously the soul of Shakti or ram or Krishna would not become a slave. they would be dirt poor but they cannot be slave of such dark souls. that make them hero and worship worthy compare to any maha rishi wrote blunders about ram and Krishna. the worship itself is against the self. the self is suppose to have a friendly and fatherly relation with souls of Krishna and rama. the one who worship is the one who has no idea who ram is and who Krishna is. the VVIP culture of todays India came from such creation subordinates . the root of such culture is very well documented in the history. But what we see now in India is behavior of Abrahamic and Christiania subordination and forcing value on others. we can easily conclude who are those Brahmins that has poor understanding of self and who are those with good understanding of self. history also tells us in India too. how can supreme and ram can take responsibility for such act of a Hindu. that also kills the ideology of omnipresence of god. There is no rational for omnipresence of god and prevalence of rape at same time. the inferior intelligent Brahmins even in our Hindu books wrote god is everywhere. if god is sarva vyapi then he must be watching all the crime and pornography going around the world. If those Munis and rishis also put path for every religion on earth. Now we can see every priest in a church teaching his own version of bible. every mullah preaching his own version of Quran. and every sanyasi in India teaching his own version of geetha. of course that is based on the idea of omnipresence of god. Now we know that all religion on earth is degraded to the dirt. Our temples if you want to take dharshan then you must bribe. there is difference of day and night for worshipers and worship worthy. the effort maker is the worship worthy and lazy is the worshiper. the entire religious father who came on earth and creators of slaves( devotees and subordinates). if you look the bible it says I created the world for people to worship me. that kind of irrational action is now acceptable in India too. use your intellect let it spin. be swadharshana chakra dhari. ( not the physical) swa means self and dharshan means looking deep into your history. are you from sun dynasty or are you a worshiper for eternity. ask yourself.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
hinduism debate for hindus only
- Thread starter jaycdp
- Start date
ratikala
Istha gosthi
namaskaram prabhu ji :namaste
welcome to the forum ,
I am interested to hear what you have to say , but I am having a little difficulty reading your posts .
prehaps you could please break your post into shorter paragraphs , this makes it easier to read and easier to reply to .
also prehaps you would like to explain your beleifs as a student of the brahma kumaris ?
I am also interested in knowing how much your thoughts differ from vallabhacharya's pushti marg ?
welcome to the forum ,
I am interested to hear what you have to say , but I am having a little difficulty reading your posts .
prehaps you could please break your post into shorter paragraphs , this makes it easier to read and easier to reply to .
also prehaps you would like to explain your beleifs as a student of the brahma kumaris ?
I am also interested in knowing how much your thoughts differ from vallabhacharya's pushti marg ?
I don't believe the avatars literally exist. So...no. At least, I don't believe that the supreme will come down in a literal body and bring in a new age of peace. That has to be done through the work of humanity.
Oh, and welcome to the forums. :namaste
Considering that the Bhagavad Gita is often seen as metaphorical and allegorical, it may very well be the case that the verse 4.8 "For the protection of the good, for the destruction of the wicked, and for the establishment of Dharma, I am born from age to age" means that humanity itself rises up and performs actions that destroy evil and oppression, and restores order... the eastern European revolutions that brought down the Iron Curtain; the US civil rights movement, and so on.
European evolution was based on the perception or inference of sensory prospective. The inference of kalamana ( according to the time and self who went throught the time ) was not applied there at all. the limited success cannot be ignored, however that is not an excuse to compare the limited success which did not promise further sustenance or progress but a dead end cannot be compared to a progressive flowing successful thought processing and its results.
thanks for bringing up topics and discussion
believe is a different matter and realisation is alag matter. Obviously the existence of avthars have no proof at all by the perception and skills that we developed through the sensory observational study and the inference followed by such studies. the success of such intellectual progress is undeniable. such as when a person do hath yoga or going to gym do achieve success to a limit and they also progress to certain point. there is no argument in such hard work and result. the matter that I am discussing here has nothing to go against such vision or go with such vision. this subject is only for people who comprehend the complexity of reincarnation and karma theory . a success by mahathma Gandhi or some great mahathma like jesus or budha is also an undeniable fact. the limitation of such success is being discussed an on going basis here. the experience is the issue and based on experience after thinking for the self is discusses. if the self is worshiped and not put yourself in practice then there is no point in further communication.
the belief is a foreign to self. self experience and self understand according to its own capacity to be in control. self rule itself.
we are self a shining point of light which can only be experienced and not visualise by mind, the experience that we have is all based on what we see through the eye. ( may be not all but mostly). for example if we want to create an airplane then we have to visualise it first, later on we have to build one. as we are doing action here we progress. But in spiritual study also we have a goal that is to become Narayan. To become Narayan when you die is unacceptable because you can be cheated. Even Muslims consider they go to heaven when they die. Again if we have such an impractical goal then we should have a foundation. One is faith, faith is important but it can lead to blind faith because your sankalpa is extraordinary and beyond the ordinary capacity. So one must experience and progress through the study program and practical program. Nobody expect a medical student to become a doctor his next life. If we do have such school then we can imagine how lazy and imperfect doctor he is going to be. the reality also should be considered can every one become a successful great doctor?
the counter question here who wants to become a Narayan. I don't want to . besides I only want moksha. that is personal choice and such people should not be worrying about worldly problem and should stick to themselves. Or others wants to know about Narayan and connect himself after complete understanding of the story. the diversity should be considered and respected. However if some one wants to take leadership then that person cannot expect zero responsibility. this is why I am bringing the debate here . And the aim and objective is not argument but a smooth long term interaction.
the literal meaning cannot be different from the original context. inference vary from people to people. But the reality is fact and fact does not mean true all the time. the ultimate fact is truth. If the truth is ignored then the spiritual path has no meaning. it should be inclusive and the discussion for it does not mean you need to agree on literal terms of every scripture word by word. perhaps that is not our culture any way. In our culture you are allowed to disagree until it is clear to you with a reasoning. A reasoning of physical observation and such inference are not some thing Hinduism valued for eternity. so just agree or disagree is not the original intention. If you feel that i need to find meaning for my self by manan chindan that should be respected at any cost. after all just agreeing or disagreeing is not a spiritual way of expressing. spiritual way we need to go deeper and deeper and experience our self before making an agreement. I left it for agree or disagree for the purpose just accepting it as it is literally written in the book of MURALI. that does not mean we need to agree on it spiritually and mentally. the discussion is not literal meaning. discussion should be the inference and should have some kind of acceptable rationale behind any decision on inference. this way no body is forced to believe what others believe.
The supreme is not the authority as Abrahamic religion and Hindu bakts portrays. They painted, him as the one who sit in every atom and control every single atom. First of all the world run naturally by its own, second, supreme soul has no control on what is going on earth, and finally he is noT omnipresent. The supreme soul is the cause for creation of heaven or golden age on earth for souls to experience happiness . When the adharmic souls came from soul world created VI- dharma it was them put foundation for sorrow and lust. The nature runs according to the presence of kings and the rules.
The king of wordily dharma souls are very visible in the world. Every one know who, Abraham, Buddha, shankaracharya is. But they cannot be called ravana, because they don't come to the kingdom of Narayan. The Narayan who get converted to such religion are two types. The guru nanak is actually the one who fight along with ram to protect India from invaders. Shankaracharya actually become the embodiment of swadharma, shankaracharya did not expect his followers to stay in India. So such saints finally end up in America and become videshi.
Only soul of Shakti will be adhering to swaedheshi swadharma even if they go to America or Africa England. A soul of Shakti will not go to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. But if he happen to take birth in such country he will slowly become come back to his original dharma and will remove impurities by himself.
supreme soul is misinterpreted by the Hindu devotees. supreme soul was represented to the world and painted by wrong people without knowing him. Parma athma is not a miracle maker and miracle god hiding in matter. the people who created wordily religion has no association with supreme perhaps they are the one who spoke lie on behalf of supreme and created confusion among people. The so called credit they had been giving to the supreme actually the ignorance of their own irresponsibility for bringing down the value system of the world which was originated from the Paramaathma.
Thanks for today
A Brahmin
The king of wordily dharma souls are very visible in the world. Every one know who, Abraham, Buddha, shankaracharya is. But they cannot be called ravana, because they don't come to the kingdom of Narayan. The Narayan who get converted to such religion are two types. The guru nanak is actually the one who fight along with ram to protect India from invaders. Shankaracharya actually become the embodiment of swadharma, shankaracharya did not expect his followers to stay in India. So such saints finally end up in America and become videshi.
Only soul of Shakti will be adhering to swaedheshi swadharma even if they go to America or Africa England. A soul of Shakti will not go to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia. But if he happen to take birth in such country he will slowly become come back to his original dharma and will remove impurities by himself.
supreme soul is misinterpreted by the Hindu devotees. supreme soul was represented to the world and painted by wrong people without knowing him. Parma athma is not a miracle maker and miracle god hiding in matter. the people who created wordily religion has no association with supreme perhaps they are the one who spoke lie on behalf of supreme and created confusion among people. The so called credit they had been giving to the supreme actually the ignorance of their own irresponsibility for bringing down the value system of the world which was originated from the Paramaathma.
Thanks for today
A Brahmin
No in fact it's not old degraded dharma the verse says the following:
Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion—at that time I descend Myself.
God incarnates in each yugas to protect dharma, His devetees, annihilates the demons & reestablish dharma as per BG & SB