Hindus and Muslims

[LuisDantas]

LuisDantas you know quite well the religion..

Thanks. All the same, it is nearly always best to ask the adherents.

You know that the heart of Islam is the monotheism

That is how I perceive it, indeed.

and that polytheism is the first sin with denying God.

That I don't know for a fact. You have probably clarified the point, and I thank you for that.

It wasn't clear a priori whether it would be proper or expected for a Muslim to perceive keeping a strictly monotheist family (by refusing to marry with non-monotheists) as more important than respecting the feelings and expectations of hypothetical people who might fall in love outside those self-imposed boundaries.

 

[LuisDantas]

True, no mixed families. However muslims and hindus can be good worker collegues, be friends, play football together etc etc etc


I believe aslong there is no war or oppression we should deal people with kindess.

A laudable sentiment, no doubt.

I'm not quite certain how fair it is to deny people marriage, but I suspect it is mainly a matter of Muslim societies usually lacking the means of dealing with mixed marriages with people who are not of the Book.

 

[Pastek]

That I don't know for a fact. You have probably clarified the point, and I thank you for that.

It wasn't clear a priori whether it would be proper or expected for a Muslim to perceive keeping a strictly monotheist family (by refusing to marry with non-monotheists) as more important than respecting the feelings and expectations of hypothetical people who might fall in love outside those self-imposed boundaries.

You're welcome, I thought you knew that.

Here are the major sins in Islam, they are in order from the worst to the less worse :

01. Associating anything with Allah
02. Murder
03. Practising magic
04. Not Praying
05. Not paying Zakat

You can see the others here : The Major Sins in Islam

Or here with explanations and verses : Major Sins In Islam


By the way, you can have polytheist people in your family. If someone convert to Islam he should still see his family as stated in the Quran :

31.14 (...) Be grateful to Me and to your parents; to Me is the [final] destination.

31.15 But if they endeavor to make you associate with Me that of which you have no knowledge, do not obey them but accompany them in [this] world with appropriate kindness and follow the way of those who turn back to Me [in repentance].

 

[LuisDantas]

I wonder how much is lost in translation.

It is certainly not the case that good Muslims are expected not to associate at all with anything or anyone besides Allah himself. But I assume that the original verb has a subtler meaning than "to associate".

 

[Sundance]

But the overall of Hinduism is regarded to be polytheism. That was my point

I mean if u ask anyone about Hinduism what comes first on their minds they would probably say " many gods", right?

Admittedly, you would be correct, dear Servant. Either way, can't we get along and live in peace?

 

[Sundance]

Not very many Hindus regard themselves as politheists.

I don't, myself, dear Luis. Thanks for your comments! Peace.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Admittedly, you would be correct, dear Servant. Either way, can't we get along and live in peace?

Yeah ofcourse, in quran it says if they(non-muslims) seek peace, we should also seek peace.

 

[Aupmanyav]

In reality India and Myanmar are enemy states oppressing Muslims. So the only medicine is through resistance if diplomacy fails.

This person certainly does not know anything about India. Can he explain why 7 million Muslims left India for Pakistan (there was a similar transfer of 7 million Hindus from Pakistan to India) but 36 million chose to remain in India? And why their population has increased to 180 million today. Is it that when there is persecution, the population of Muslims increases so dramatically, 5 times in 68 years, a 400% increase?

India did not go to Kashmir uninvited. It was the Pakistani attack and their atrocities which forced the Valley Kashmiris to ask for Indian help. Their leader, Sheikh Abdullah, asked for some safeguards and we agreed to them. Indian army did not move in till the letter of accession was signed. And what resistance he is talking about? Asking the 180 million Muslims to take up arms against 1000 million Hindus? Clearly, Servant is not in his proper senses.

As for OP's questions, I do not visit Christianity and Islam forums on principle. I do not know of an Indian Muslim to be a member of RF when I visit Comparative Religions or General Religious Debates forums. I do not like exclusivist religions, since my own view, 'Advaita', is all inclusive. Furthermore, I am a science person and find Christianity and Islam to be totally unscientific.

Of course, co-existence is possible and exists. Muslims were in Kerala since the 7th Century and were accepted in the society (they were known as sons-in-laws, Moplah, since some women in the matriarchal Kerala society of that time, married Muslims). Even after the Muslim invaders came at the turn of the last millennium, Hindus and Muslims have lived together, shared their happiness and sorrows, served their masters (whether Hindus or Muslim) loyally. Muslims are a part of Indian Army, Para-military forces and police. There is always a temple, a mosque and a church in every cantonment of Indian Armed Forces.

Hindus and Muslims do marry but not commonly, and yes, their marriage is not looked upon very favorably in general. Many Hindus have no problem with visiting the graves of Sufi saints. At one time people celebrated each other's festivals (Holi, Diwali, Eid) with enthusiasm which is somewhat lacking today - but, Hey, all is not lost.

Muslim children dressed as Radha and Krishna, Hindus and Muslims exchanging bread during the ‘Rottela Panduga’ at Bara Shahid Dargah in Nellore.

"Rotella Panduga" begins at Nellore Tank, Andhra Pradesh.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

This person certainly does not know anything about India. Can he explain why 7 million Muslims left India for Pakistan (there was a similar transfer of 7 million Hindus from Pakistan to India) but 36 million chose to remain in India? And why their population has increased to 180 million today. Is it that when there is persecution, the population of Muslims increases so dramatically, 5 times in 68 years, a 400% increase?

India did not go to Kashmir uninvited. It was the Pakistani attack and their atrocities which forced the Valley Kashmiris to ask for Indian help. Their leader, Sheikh Abdullah, asked for some safeguards and we agreed to them. Indian army did not move in till the letter of accession was signed. And what resistance he is talking about? Asking the 180 million Muslims to take up arms against 1000 million Hindus? Clearly, Servant is not in his proper senses.

As for OP's questions, I do not visit Christianity and Islam forums on principle. I do not know of an Indian Muslim to be a member of RF when I visit Comparative Religions or General Religious Debates forums. I do not like exclusivist religions, since my own view, 'Advaita', is all inclusive. Furthermore, I am a science person and find Christianity and Islam to be totally unscientific.

Of course, co-existence is possible and exists. Muslims were in Kerala since the 7th Century and were accepted in the society (they were known as sons-in-laws, Moplah, since some women in the matriarchal Kerala society of that time, married Muslims). Even after the Muslim invaders came at the turn of the last millennium, Hindus and Muslims have lived together, shared their happiness and sorrows, served their masters (whether Hindus or Muslim) loyally. Muslims are a part of Indian Army, Para-military forces and police. There is always a temple, a mosque and a church in every cantonment of Indian Armed Forces.

Hindus and Muslims do marry but not commonly, and yes, their marriage is not looked upon very favorably in general. Many Hindus have no problem with visiting the graves of Sufi saints. At one time people celebrated each other's festivals (Holi, Diwali, Eid) with enthusiasm which is somewhat lacking today - but, Hey, all is not lost.

Muslim children dressed as Radha and Krishna, Hindus and Muslims exchanging bread during the ‘Rottela Panduga’ at Bara Shahid Dargah in Nellore.

"Rotella Panduga" begins at Nellore Tank, Andhra Pradesh.

I was talking about Kashmir oppression.


Some(If not, MANY) Indian Muslims lack knowledge of islam. Thats why u see them taking part in Hindu rituals, which is shirk.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I was talking about Kashmir oppression.

There is no oppression. It is misguidance in the name of religion by separatists who are paid by Pakistan. The idea is to make India pay for the breakup of Pakistan in 1971, though Pakistan politics and army themselves were responsible for this. The poor Kashmiris suffer or die in the cross-fire. Where do you see oppression in this: kashmir - Google Search. Disturbances are handled by Kashmir police which is mostly Muslim. It is not that army comes in and starts spraying bullets at the slightest provocation.

They are being ruled by their own elected government. Last time it was the grandson of Sheikh Abdullah and Congress, this time it is Mufti Mohammad Sayeed and the Hindu party, BJP. They have safeguards for their identity, Indians from outside Kashmir cannot buy land there. Hundreds of thousand Indians (Hindus and others) visit Kashmir each year pouring their money in. The Indian government is prompt in helping Kashmiris whenever the need arises (earthquakes or floods). So, where is the oppression, except in Pakistani or other Islamic propaganda?

Hindus on pilgrimage to the Amarnath Shiva Shrine in Kashmir. My son was one of the pilgrims this year. He went there by a helicopter but the service was not available for the return journey because of weather. The poor boy had to walk 40 kms that day. (There are two routes to Amarnath. The first one is a shorter, drier, and tougher route via Sonamarg. The other is longer, greener and easier via Pahalgam, but then you get to see a beautiful alpine lake, Sheshnag)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Some (If not, MANY) Indian Muslims lack knowledge of islam. Thats why you see them taking part in Hindu rituals, which is shirk.

Allah understands the difference between fun and shirk. What a Muslim does is between him/her and Allah. Are you the one who will decide?

Going by what you say, the Shehnai (Oboe) performance by Bharat Ratna (Jewel of India) Ustad Bismillah Khan at the Shiva temple in Varanasi was shirk! And so was his devotion to Hindu Goddess of Arts and Music, Saraswati. The problem is that you do not understand India and its Hindu-Muslim Culture. We call it the "Ganga-Jamuni" culture, the two rivers that finally merge in Varanasi.

"He was of course a pious Shia Muslim. However, like many Indian musicians, regardless of religion, he was also a devotee of goddess Saraswati, the Hindu goddess of wisdom, and arts. He often played Shehnai in Hindu temples, for the pleasure of God and His devotees. He especially performed at the Vishwanath temple of Lord Shiva at Varanasi." A Muslim blessed by Hindu Gods | Smile O Smile

 

[SomeRandom]

But the overall of Hinduism is regarded to be polytheism. That was my point

I mean if u ask anyone about Hinduism what comes first on their minds they would probably say " many gods", right?

Are you referring to actual Hindus or people not under the umbrella term Hindu?

If you asked people not in Hinduism, then that's not exactly a good indicator of reality as people have a tendency to oversimplify or be ignorant. Which is fine.
But ask people nowadays what the first thing to come to mind about Islam they may say Jihad or terrorism. I do not believe either of those statements accurately portray all of Islam, do you?

But many Hindus are actually Monotheists, many are soft or hard polytheists, many are even atheists. To classify all Hindus as polytheist is woefully overly simplistic.

 

[LuisDantas]

I suppose it can be difficult for people who are not used to it to understand how a monotheistic Hindu (of which I understand there are quite a few - if I had to guess, somewhere between 20%-60% of India's population) may feel at ease with other takes on his own religion.

Muslims, it seems to me, are often or perhaps nearly always taught that it is somehow a very serious mistake to even have too much to do with people who believe in the wrong god.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

"LuisDantas, post: 4383034, member: 16218"]I suppose it can be difficult for people who are not used to it to understand how a monotheistic Hindu (of which I understand there are quite a few - if I had to guess, somewhere between 20%-60% of India's population) may feel at ease with other takes on his own religion.

Namaste,

That is a good observation, and i would agree (not sure about the figures though), I personally think the non exclusivity of Hindu claims is a major contributing factor to this relaxed outlook, plus the "monotheism", in Hinduism is different to the Abrahamic ones, as there are no commandments prohibiting worship of "Any other Gods Before Me", or any claims of a final and exclusive "Avatar or Rishi".

Muslims, it seems to me, are often or perhaps nearly always taught that it is somehow a very serious mistake to even have too much to do with people who believe in the wrong god.

It is probably true for many Christians as well, and i have observed this mentality seeping into Hinduism as more and more ex-abrahamics decide to follow the Dharmah, or find themselves interested in Hindu Philosophy, but the old baggage of exclusivity is hard to remove. Mind you it (Exclusivity) also comes as part of the parcel of the cultures/traditions/civilizations that have used it for their advantage. And there are also Many Indian Hindus who have bought into this idea, generally as a reaction to the Abrahamic claims.

Namaste,

 

[LuisDantas]

Namaste,

Namaste, Satyamavejayanti. Thanks for your very interesting reply.

That is a good observation, and i would agree (not sure about the figures though), I personally think the non exclusivity of Hindu claims is a major contributing factor to this relaxed outlook, plus the "monotheism", in Hinduism is different to the Abrahamic ones, as there are no commandments prohibiting worship of "Any other Gods Before Me", or any claims of a final and exclusive "Avatar or Rishi".

I'm not sure about the figures either. They are indeed just guesses and may well be very wrong. But I just don't get much of a politheistic "vibe" from most Hindus that I interact with.

For the most part, Hindus seem to be very relaxed when faced with the fact that people will and do vary a lot on their deity beliefs, but at the same time they don't seem to me to be politheistic in the pagan sense - or even in the Shintoistic sense.

I sincerely believe that if Muslims had a better understanding of the typical Hindu beliefs they would not think of them as politheists - or, in fact, as non-monotheists of any sort - either.

It is probably true for many Christians as well, and i have observed this mentality seeping into Hinduism as more and more ex-abrahamics decide to follow the Dharmah, or find themselves interested in Hindu Philosophy, but the old baggage of exclusivity is hard to remove.

I agree. I have met some evidence of that. And I find it sad and utterly unnecessary, as well.

It seems somewhat self-evident that whatever the exact theological truth may be, there is hardly any need for human beings to insist on, for lack of a better word, lucking on making the right bet about what it is when it makes so much more sense to simply learn about the various ways of expressing religiosity and choosing whatever best echoes with oneself.

Gods are not elected representatives for us to need such anxiety about how many people agree with us.

Mind you it (Exclusivity) also comes as part of the parcel of the cultures/traditions/civilizations that have used it for their advantage. And there are also Many Indian Hindus who have bought into this idea, generally as a reaction to the Abrahamic claims.

Namaste,

Namaste.

Again, I agree and I hope we all manage to overcome that situation, which I see as very counterproductive for all people touched by it.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

"LuisDantas, post: 4383209, member: 16218"]Namaste, Satyamavejayanti. Thanks for your very interesting reply.

Namaste,

I'm not sure about the figures either. They are indeed just guesses and may well be very wrong. But I just don't get much of a politheistic "vibe" from most Hindus that I interact with.

Figures/stats ect are impossible and not important when considering places like India and a Dharmah like Hinduism in particular. In my close family there are 7 people, each with their own spiritual outlook, their own ishta devta/devi, My son (2 & 1/2 YO) is an atheist, all in one family, i don't know whose Mono or Poly, it makes no difference to how we treat each other, typical Hindu family.

For the most part, Hindus seem to be very relaxed when faced with the fact that people will and do vary a lot on their deity beliefs, but at the same time they don't seem to me to be politheistic in the pagan sense - or even in the Shintoistic sense.

I think the underlying idea and assumption that we are all somehow interconnected, is too ingrained in the Hindu mind, that mentality is a big contributing factor for our relaxed outlook.

It seems somewhat self-evident that whatever the exact theological truth may be, there is hardly any need for human beings to insist on, for lack of a better word, lucking on making the right bet about what it is when it makes so much more sense to simply learn about the various ways of expressing religiosity and choosing whatever best echoes with oneself.

I was a bit of a of a "exclusivity" type of person before i grew up, i think maturity also has a play (Leela) in spirituality.

Dhanyavad

 

[Smart_Guy]

I don't problems with anyone. I do have Hindu colleague friends here in Saudi Arabia and we respect each other.

 

[Godobeyer]

Hindus and Muslim in India , show the most beautiful imagine in living with different religions .