Hindus and Trump

[Kirran]

The recent news about making religion and politics closer could open new cans of worms regarding proseltysing, both in the US, and abroad.

I admit to watching it too, but not with much attachment. I'll watch a hockey game before a US election.

I wonder, will it be able to impact proselytising efforts? I mean, it'll be legitimising the evangelicals more broadly but do you think it'll make more resources available to evangelical missionaries in India and elsewhere?

The enthusiasm will sour quickly in any of these bills below are passed.
India freaks out over U.S. plans to change H-1B high-skilled visas

For we all know where the real devotion lies.

True. Could be interesting.

 

[Vinayaka]

Only time will tell.

 

[Kirran]

This is a little tangential, but I think it's good to make distinctions between different kinds of Christian activity in India. For example, evangelical missionaries from America and their immediate proteges are very socially damaging, in particular in the North East.

But there are also very well-established Christian communities in India, who've been there for centuries or more, which I don't see any kind of issue with at all. In fact, some I think have been really good for India, like the Church of South India, which has been standing strong for Dalit rights, as well as for the rights of women and LGBT+ people.

 

[metis]

This is a little tangential, but I think it's good to make distinctions between different kinds of Christian activity in India. For example, evangelical missionaries from America and their immediate proteges are very socially damaging, in particular in the North East.

But there are also very well-established Christian communities in India, who've been there for centuries or more, which I don't see any kind of issue with at all. In fact, some I think have been really good for India, like the Church of South India, which has been standing strong for Dalit rights, as well as for the rights of women and LGBT+ people.

There's also a sizable Jewish community there as well, and my rabbi went and stayed there for several days about 10 years ago, and he had nothing but praise for the Hindu community that is so tolerant and helpful.

 

[Vinayaka]

But there are also very well-established Christian communities in India, who've been there for centuries or more, which I don't see any kind of issue with at all. In fact, some I think have been really good for India, like the Church of South India, which has been standing strong for Dalit rights, as well as for the rights of women and LGBT+ people.

Some of these communities have been slow cancers on Hinduism. They provided 'better' schools, for example, and over time, took the Hinduism out of the Hindu. If you talk to a person that was highly influenced by it, you get a lot of confusion regarding beliefs like reincarnation. I recall earlier how you had observed some Hindus viewing moksha as the equivalent of heaven. Well, this is why.

 

[Kirran]

There's also a sizable Jewish community there as well, and my rabbi went and stayed there for several days about 10 years ago, and he had nothing but praise for the Hindu community that is so tolerant and helpful.

A Jewish community?! In the singular?! That can't be! There are quite a few Jewish communities there, and they often wouldn't go to each other's synagogues if you paid them.

Some of these communities have been slow cancers on Hinduism. They provided 'better' schools, for example, and over time, took the Hinduism out of the Hindu. If you talk to a person that was highly influenced by it, you get a lot of confusion regarding beliefs like reincarnation. I recall earlier how you had observed some Hindus viewing moksha as the equivalent of heaven. Well, this is why.

Yes, true, there have definitely been problems!

Although, I feel I should mention that plenty of Hindu communities have been cancers on Hinduism. I'd take uncertain theology over caste discrimination any day of the week.

 

[Vinayaka]

A Jewish community?! In the singular?! That can't be! There are quite a few Jewish communities there, and they often wouldn't go to each other's synagogues if you paid them.



Yes, true, there have definitely been problems!

Although, I feel I should mention that plenty of Hindu communities have been cancers on Hinduism. I'd take uncertain theology over caste discrimination any day of the week.

I hesitate to say a lot about caste because I haven't lived there long enough, or at all, to get some definitive sense. I do know it goes far beyond the religion of Hinduism. Dalit Christian - Wikipedia

I also know other societies have suffered from class distinctions based on race, gender, money, religion, occupation, etc. All of it is sad, and its really hard to get a handle on how fair it is or isn't world wide, without first hand experience. The centuries of slavery, indentured labour, male privilege, by European whites certainly gets into my mental pictures rather quickly. Yet it seems that's who likes to call out India on caste. A bit hypocritical, in my view.

 

[Kirran]

I hesitate to say a lot about caste because I haven't lived there long enough, or at all, to get some definitive sense. I do know it goes far beyond the religion of Hinduism. Dalit Christian - Wikipedia

I also know other societies have suffered from class distinctions based on race, gender, money, religion, occupation, etc. All of it is sad, and its really hard to get a handle on how fair it is or isn't world wide, without first hand experience. The centuries of slavery, indentured labour, male privilege, by European whites certainly gets into my mental pictures rather quickly. Yet it seems that's who likes to call out India on caste. A bit hypocritical, in my view.

Oh, certainly! There are problems with casteism in Muslim, Sikh and Christian communities. Some Islamic scholars in India even try and justify casteism religiously, including Deobandis.

Right, there are certainly problems with class and ethnic discrimination in the Western world, of course there are, as in every other region of the planet. But Hinduism is quite unique in the degree to which many people are happy to justify something so extreme as many casteist practices are in their religion, which is a problem. Although I think it's one that is gradually decreasing.

 

[metis]

A Jewish community?! In the singular?! That can't be! There are quite a few Jewish communities there, and they often wouldn't go to each other's synagogues if you paid them.

LOL! Ya, I hear ya. Gotta joke for ya:

A Jewish man got stranded on a desert Island for a few years, and finally a ship going by saw his smoke signal. They came ashore to rescue him and, after asking, he told them he was the only one there. Before getting aboard, he asked if they would like to see his two synagogues, and they look puzzled and asked why two if he's the only one there? He responded "Well, there's my synagogue, and then there's that other synagogue that I would never set foot in!".

BTW, most of my students from India came out of the Catholic community in Kerala Province, and they were just as super nice as were my Hindu students. Must be the food. Got any extra samozas?

 

[Kirran]

LOL! Ya, I hear ya. Gotta joke for ya:

A Jewish man got stranded on a desert Island for a few years, and finally a ship going by saw his smoke signal. They came ashore to rescue him and, after asking, he told them he was the only one there. Before getting aboard, he asked if they would like to see his two synagogues, and they look puzzled and asked why two if he's the only one there? He responded "Well, there's my synagogue, and then there's that other synagogue that I would never set foot in!".

BTW, most of my students from India came out of the Catholic community in Kerala Province, and they were just as super nice as were my Hindu students. Must be the food. Got any extra samozas?

I like that joke I'll admit, it is not the first time I've heard it haha

Ah nice! Kerala is an interesting state, having one of the strongest traditions of socialism, progressivism, equality, and yet also having some of the deepest caste divisions in all India.

 

[metis]

I like that joke I'll admit, it is not the first time I've heard it haha

Ah nice! Kerala is an interesting state, having one of the strongest traditions of socialism, progressivism, equality, and yet also having some of the deepest caste divisions in all India.

And where's my samozas???

BTW, I've been at services at a local Hindu temple near where our place is downstate and enjoyed them-- especially the dinners afterword.

When I have more time, I'll have to tell you more about my Hindu "connection", but I'm strapped for time right now. I think you'll be interested, and maybe even a bit surprised.

Have a great weekend, my friend.