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Hindus, Heathens, Pagans, etc etc... What do you think?

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Aren't there different streams of Buddhism though?

Yes but reincarnation seems a fairly common belief throughout. Without it the notion of the cycle of samsara doesn't mean much of anything. Gautama Buddha's enlightenment allowed him to see clearly every single one of his previous incarnations.
 

Aldrnari

Active Member
If you mean to focus on contemporary Paganism - the new religious movement that draws inspiration from various indigenous polytheisms, animisms, and to no small extent Eastern traditions as well - five things on the list don't seem to be branches of contemporary Paganism to me. Those would be Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, Sikhism, and Zoroastrianism. All of those were around long before contemporary Paganism was a thing, and their connection to the contemporary Pagan movement is as a source of inspiration more than anything else.


Very good points. Some are reconstructed religions, while others have been practiced for hundreds, or thousands of years without interruption. What they do share in common, however, is their roots. Tyr (Tywaz), Jupiter, Dyaus Pita, Zeus, etc are etymologically linked under the god named Dyeus Phter - Sky/Day Father (or at least, that's the name linguists have reconstructed), for example. Ultimately, each of the new reconstructed branches (religions) have recovered some of their old ways, while forging a new path, but they are all still very much linked; though it's not always obvious to see how. This is true even for some of the old eastern religions that we can more easily trace.

Still, Hinduism I hold in special regard as it is basically the sole surviving bastion of Paganism that didn't get ripped asunder like the traditions in the West did. Much of contemporary Paganism in the West reflects Hinduism and its quirks. We both argue senselessly about how to define what we are, we both have an incredible amount of diversity under our umbrellas, but are on the whole pluralistic and tolerant (if not welcoming) of that diversity.

I sometimes wonder how these religions would have changed over time if they hadn't been interrupted, similar to Hinduism. Maybe they would have evolved into an entirely different thing altogether. :)

As for the contemporary Pagan traditions? Honestly, I don't have much I can say. There's too much diversity within each of these traditions for me to have any meaningful generalizations about them. I can say more about various approaches to these traditions than the traditions themselves. Some focus a lot on historicism and re-enactment or reconstruction, for example. Others focus on cultivating deep relationships with one or a few deities and let direct experience guide the development of their tradition. There are those who fancy expression through the bardic arts, whether it be song, dance, or script. Some take a perspective informed by the inner psyche and workings of the mind, and some are informed by the sciences, tales of human ancestors, modern mythology or works of contemporary narratives, and more. There are just so many directions these paths can be taken in, I wouldn't know where to start.

...And ultimately, the cultures in which these movements take place make a huge difference in the way they flourish as well. For example, Asatru in Iceland is usually much different than the several Asatru (among the other Heathen) movements taking place in the US, or even Sweden. In the US it seems much more of a spiritual experience (or sometimes a political excuse), while in Iceland it seems more of a philosophical experience...
 

arthra

Baha'i
I think a lot of issues among the listed religions can be "sorted out" on inter-faith forums. We had a series of such forums at a local university called World Religion Day and representatives of local Hindus, Zoroastrians, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Baha'is would gatheer and discuss a common agreed upon theme and share their respective views. The faculty of religious studies also encouraged the students to attend these panel discussiosn and ask questions. So in such a situation there were interesting parallels seen and appreciated.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
This is strange because I don't see European Paganism and the Eastern religions having much to do with each other besides the Indo-European ties to Vedic religion they share. Other than that, I can see more similarity to Shinto with Germanic religion than with Buddhism, and more similarity with Near Eastern religion when it comes to Hellenismos. They're all very different cultures. I don't really understand this Indo-European craze some have, unless you're a linguist.
 

Cherub786

Member
Which Dharmic religion has the strongest socio-political component and message? That is one of the fundamental differences between Dharmic religion and my religion.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Which Dharmic religion has the strongest socio-political component and message?
Probably Jainism.

That is one of the fundamental differences between Dharmic religion and my religion.
Actually, Islaam could not be more different from Dharmic religion if it had that as a design parameter.

Sometimes I wonder how difficult it must be for Hindus to communicate with the many Muslims in India (and Pakistan, and I assume also Bangladesh).
 

Cherub786

Member
Probably Jainism.


Actually, Islaam could not be more different from Dharmic religion if it had that as a design parameter.

Sometimes I wonder how difficult it must be for Hindus to communicate with the many Muslims in India (and Pakistan, and I assume also Bangladesh).

We keep to ourselves and simply tolerate each other's existence. That's why Pakistan was created in the first place, to avoid the Hindus

I've never met a single Jain in my life, including online.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
We keep to ourselves and simply tolerate each other's existence. That's why Pakistan was created in the first place, to avoid the Hindus

I know. Such a loss.

I've never met a single Jain in my life, including online.
Most seem to be fairly recluse - at least online.

My best guess is that most Jains are not particularly visible, in no small part because they take their vows seriously and that imposes considerable limitations to them.
 

Cherub786

Member
I know. Such a loss.

I don't think so. Its best that two completely incompatible people go their separate ways and pursue their own destinies. That would have been impossible for at least one of those two groups (the minority) in a unified state.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I don't think so. Its best that two completely incompatible people go their separate ways and pursue their own destinies. That would have been impossible for at least one of those two groups (the minority) in a unified state.
To think so cristalizes the loss and worsens it.

Frankly, the very fact that so many Muslims are so ready to accept such a diagnosis is a strong piece of evidence pointing towards the failure of Islaam to be a religion in the first place.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Yes but reincarnation seems a fairly common belief throughout. Without it the notion of the cycle of samsara doesn't mean much of anything. Gautama Buddha's enlightenment allowed him to see clearly every single one of his previous incarnations.
Samsara is a common belief across Buddhist schools - and, IMO, it is one of the beliefs that may be used to gauge whether a group that claims to be teaching Buddhism truly is.

Reincarnation, though, is widely understood to be an idea at odds with Buddhist rebirth, mainly because Anatta and other concepts deny the existence of a personal Atman or soul that might reincarnate.

It is true that many people either disagree or do not see any difference.
 

Cherub786

Member
To think so cristalizes the loss and worsens it.

Frankly, the very fact that so many Muslims are so ready to accept such a diagnosis is a strong piece of evidence pointing towards the failure of Islaam to be a religion in the first place.

The function of Religion is to uplift people and give them a purpose and a destiny they could not have otherwise had. The majority of Muslims from the Indian subcontinent are descendants of low-caste converts, mostly Sudras. Their ancestors had a spirit of dissent and adventure to depart from centuries old tradition and way of thinking to embrace a radically new one. That is a great accomplishment. Preservation of oneself in the face of an ocean of contrariness is another great accomplishment.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The function of Religion is to uplift people and give them a purpose and a destiny they could not have otherwise had.
That is one understanding. Not a particularly natural nor a very clear one in my opinion.

The majority of Muslims from the Indian subcontinent are descendants of low-caste converts, mostly Sudras. Their ancestors had a spirit of dissent and adventure to depart from centuries old tradition and way of thinking to embrace a radically new one. That is a great accomplishment. Preservation of oneself in the face of an ocean of contrariness is another great accomplishment.
That may well be. I lack the means to know, let alone to disagree.

Still, it is definitely a shame that to achieve that it has apparently become necessary for Muslims to segregate themselves from the wider population.
 

Cherub786

Member
That is one understanding. Not a particularly natural nor a very clear one in my opinion.

Why not?


Still, it is definitely a shame that to achieve that it has apparently become necessary for Muslims to segregate themselves from the wider population.

Fundamentally different philosophy. I don't see the human race as one having a single destiny etc. Being human is incidental, not a basis for identity. We can only be vibrant if we have our own space to pursue our separate destinies while interacting amicably on those levels where interaction is voluntary and mutually beneficial (i.e. commerce). We can be neighbors, but I must own my own house, and your house is for you.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
As a Buddhist, I often feel like an outsider on this tree due to my rejection of substance-based theory in favor of process philosophy.

When it comes to other religions, I'll reject as harmful any teachings that preach greed, hatred, and delusion. Teachings that facilitate the ending of greed hatred and delusion are beneficial.

Your mileage may vary.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
As a Buddhist, I often feel like an outsider on this tree due to my rejection of substance-based theory in favor of process philosophy.

Can you unpack this a bit? Tell us a bit about your understanding of substance-based theory and process philosophy?
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
As a Buddhist, I often feel like an outsider on this tree due to my rejection of substance-based theory in favor of process philosophy.

When it comes to other religions, I'll reject as harmful any teachings that preach greed, hatred, and delusion. Teachings that facilitate the ending of greed hatred and delusion are beneficial.

Your mileage may vary.
Can you unpack this a bit? Tell us a bit about your understanding of substance-based theory and process philosophy?
Sure. Substance theory focuses on irreducible "substances" (things in themselves) in building its models. Substance theories can posit 1 substance such as metaphysical Idealism or metaphysical materialism, or can posit 2 substances (like consciousness-and-matter or other forms of dualism,) or can posit multiple substances, such as Plato's world of forms (pluralism.)

Buddhism and Daoism focus on change rather than substance. (Anatta, Impermanance, and Emptiness in Buddhism, or "The Constant" {Change} in Taoism.) Process Philosophy is the closest Western paradigm I can find to this. The western paradigm of substance theory is so engrained in the western system that it can be quite difficult for some to break out of the box--and consequentially accuse process philosophy/non-substance philosophy as "nihilism," as it contains no substance paradigm. (Which must be nihilism to those who can't let go of substance theory.)

*shrugs*
 
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