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Historical Case for the Resurrection of Jesus

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
This response to what I posted is absolutely baffling.

Please address what was actually said in the post. I'm convinced you didn't read it.
Thanks.

Dude, you're the one claiming THERE IS A SUPERNATURAL.
It's not up to other people to define your terms for you. It's up to you. Nobody has to provide alternative anything to you since you haven't even made your case in the first place.
Over and over you try to shift YOUR burden of proof onto others. And it's getting tiring, Leroy.
He may have read it, but believers often won't let themselves understand the facts that refute them. You have to have noticed that he keep repeating nonsensical refuted arguments. Strawman arguments, poor and inconsistent definitions of evidence. One logical fallacy after another is all that he has.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If you understood the generic nature spiritual truth then you could find it in most all of those religions with the exception of Scientology which is just retarded!
You will find claims of it, but "spiritual truth" is never properly defined and appears to vary immensely based upon one's beliefs. Your arguments could be a lot more convincing if you could properly define your terms. But the problem is that proper definitions will also refute ideas and believers do not want that.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Atheists "know" that we've got a bunch of people making various god claims, but none are actually able to demonstrate the veracity of those claims. When questioned, you just pile on more claims.
So I don't believe those claims.

I expect the same evidence from religious claims that I expect from any other claim about anything. It's you that makes a special exception of "faith" and "subjective spirituality" claims, as though they're in some separate category. Why? Because they're completely lacking in evidence. But it does demonstrate to me that my definition of faith is accurate, though you don't seem to realize it.
If you keep experiencing no proof then why don't you give it a rest??????????? I can help, you will always arrive at the same conclusion, believer says he or she has a spiritual experience, you say prove it, they can't so, maybe get another hobby??????

What exactly is it that you get out of arguing with religious people?

"Those who know God have experienced the fact of his presence; such God-knowing mortals hold in their personal experience the only positive proof of the existence of the living God which one human being can offer to another. The existence of God is utterly beyond all possibility of demonstration except for the contact between the God-consciousness of the human mind and the God-presence of the Thought Adjuster that indwells the mortal intellect and is bestowed upon man as the free gift of the Universal Father." UB 1955
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If you keep experiencing no proof then why don't you give it a rest??????????? I can help, you will always arrive at the same conclusion, believer says he or she has a spiritual experience, you say prove it, they can't so, maybe get another hobby??????

What exactly is it that you get out of arguing with religious people?

"Those who know God have experienced the fact of his presence; such God-knowing mortals hold in their personal experience the only positive proof of the existence of the living God which one human being can offer to another. The existence of God is utterly beyond all possibility of demonstration except for the contact between the God-consciousness of the human mind and the God-presence of the Thought Adjuster that indwells the mortal intellect and is bestowed upon man as the free gift of the Universal Father." UB 1955
Referring to a cracked version of the Bible does not help you. You really should learn how to properly define your terms if you want to debate properly. Your source appears to have conflated the concepts of belief and knowledge. Being very confident does not magically turn a belief into knowledge.
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
Please address what I said in the post you are responding to before we move on.
Thanks.
You said that the 500 is a rumor and I asked for the rest of the appearances……………..I would rather to have a complete response before addressing that point.

Also, I'll need quotes for these "7 appearances," please.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Referring to a cracked version of the Bible does not help you. You really should learn how to properly define your terms if you want to debate properly. Your source appears to have conflated the concepts of belief and knowledge. Being very confident does not magically turn a belief into knowledge.
Truth?

"The very pessimism of the most pessimistic materialist is, in and of itself, sufficient proof that the universe of the pessimist is not wholly material. Both optimism and pessimism are concept reactions in a mind conscious of values as well as of facts. If the universe were truly what the materialist regards it to be, man as a human machine would then be devoid of all conscious recognition of that very fact. Without the consciousness of the concept of values within the spirit-born mind, the fact of universe materialism and the mechanistic phenomena of universe operation would be wholly unrecognized by man. One machine cannot be conscious of the nature or value of another machine." UB

There is truth in that statement but you are all about the need to feel superior to others and win arguments at all costs, so i doubt you have the courage to acknowledge the truth in the above.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
If you keep experiencing no proof then why don't you give it a rest??????????? I can help, you will always arrive at the same conclusion, believer says he or she has a spiritual experience, you say prove it, they can't so, maybe get another hobby??????
Why don't you get another hobby???????? Why are you here????????? Let's psychoanalyze you! Or not, because that's stupid. ;) Or hey, let's just derail the whole thread because you don't like atheists and wish they'd go away. Snivel, snivel, whine, whine.

I'm here to have discussions about various topics, including religious ones. Like everyone else.
What exactly is it that you get out of arguing with religious people?
I get to see points of view that are different from my own and try thinking through them. I get to engage in discussions and practice in logic and reason, you know, like exercising your mind and keeping it active kind of stuff. I argue with non-religious people as well. I find it enjoyable.

Why does it bother you so much to have people challenge your arguments and beliefs? And if that bothers you so much, I guess I should ask you why you're here. Let's just keep on derailing the thread.

Or let's not and say we did.
"Those who know God have experienced the fact of his presence; such God-knowing mortals hold in their personal experience the only positive proof of the existence of the living God which one human being can offer to another. The existence of God is utterly beyond all possibility of demonstration except for the contact between the God-consciousness of the human mind and the God-presence of the Thought Adjuster that indwells the mortal intellect and is bestowed upon man as the free gift of the Universal Father." UB 1955
Sounds exactly the same as belief in something that doesn't exist.
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
This response to what I posted is absolutely baffling.

Please address what was actually said in the post. I'm convinced you didn't read it.
Thanks.

Dude, you're the one claiming THERE IS A SUPERNATURAL.
It's not up to other people to define your terms for you. It's up to you. Nobody has to provide alternative anything to you since you haven't even made your case in the first place.
Over and over you try to shift YOUR burden of proof onto others. And it's getting tiring, Leroy.
I claim that events that are typically labeled as supernatural can occur, (like a resurrection)

But I don’t have a strict definition for miracle.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You said that the 500 is a rumor and I asked for the rest of the appearances……………..I would rather to have a complete response before addressing that point.

It is not a rumor, it is a ludicrous claim. You still do not understand how the Canadian girlfriend example refutes it.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
Dying for the sins of others is an argument that makes no sense. When you start out your argument with poor reasoning do you seriously think that anything good will come from it?


And it appears that all you have for your claim about James is part of the Canadian girlfriend claim of Paul. No one that is a rational thinker would ever take those claims seriously.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Sounds exactly the same as belief in something that doesn't exist.
So then why continue on IF you acknowledge that you will always get the same answer and make the same claims? This is a religious forum. Don't they say that doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is a form of insanity? You won already, no proof will be forth coming EVER!
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
The poster answered your question. Try actually reading for comprehension.
No he didn’t answered the question ………. The fact that you are willing to defend your atheist friends even when they are being dishonest is very telling and evidence that “internet atheism” is pretty much like a religion with nothing but fanatic members in it
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So then why continue on IF you acknowledge that you will always get the same answer and make the same claims? This is a religious forum. Don't they say that doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is a form of insanity? You won already, no proof will be forth coming EVER!
I know that it is unlikely, but people do hope that if someone is corrected often enough that they will eventually learn from their errors.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
You said that the 500 is a rumor and I asked for the rest of the appearances……………..I would rather to have a complete response before addressing that point.
You already got one.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
This entire passage is a claim of hearsay.

Except for Paul's claim of a vision and a voice.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Truth?

"The very pessimism of the most pessimistic materialist is, in and of itself, sufficient proof that the universe of the pessimist is not wholly material. Both optimism and pessimism are concept reactions in a mind conscious of values as well as of facts. If the universe were truly what the materialist regards it to be, man as a human machine would then be devoid of all conscious recognition of that very fact. Without the consciousness of the concept of values within the spirit-born mind, the fact of universe materialism and the mechanistic phenomena of universe operation would be wholly unrecognized by man. One machine cannot be conscious of the nature or value of another machine." UB

There is truth in that statement but you are all about the need to feel superior to others and win arguments at all costs, so i doubt you have the courage to acknowledge the truth in the above.
No, the is just an empty claim from an unreliable source. To even be able to start to make that claim the burden of proof is upon you to demonstrate that the UB is more than a book by a bunch of loons.

If you want to be able to debate rationally you need to be able to define your terminology properly. You need to have reliable sources. You are failing at both of those right now.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
So then why continue on IF you acknowledge that you will always get the same answer and make the same claims? This is a religious forum. Don't they say that doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is a form of insanity? You won already, no proof will be forth coming EVER!
Other people provide different answers, arguments, points, etc.. People are funny that way.
Your contempt is duly noted. And dismissed.
 
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