History

[Bthoth]

Revisionist history is making new arguments about history based on new or existing evidence.

Why did the revisionist remove the existing scope that ww2 germany was a christian based population?
The atrocities still occurred and the evidence still exists

 

[Augustus]

It is estimated that 95 percent of the indigenous populations in the Americas were killed by infectious diseases during the years following European colonization, amounting to an estimated 20 million people.

Jesus wept

How many of those deaths resulted from the event in question rather than normal disease transmission over 400 years?

Maybe the “blankets of death” were infected with cholera too and could travel through time to a period before infections had been commonplace.

There is no reason to believe a single person died from this incident, it’s not like the people collecting the blankets had hazmat suits to protect themselves from the virulent bio weapons they were carrying and it’s not like smallpox was unknown to native Americans at this point.

 

[Augustus]

Why did the revisionist remove the existing scope that ww2 germany was a christian based population?
The atrocities still occurred and the evidence still exists

No idea what your point is or its relevance to this topic.

 

[Bthoth]

Jesus wept

How many of those deaths resulted from the event in question rather than normal disease transmission over 400 years?

Maybe the “blankets of death” were infected with cholera too and could travel through time to a period before infections had been commonplace.

There is no reason to believe a single person died from this incident, it’s not like the people collecting the blankets had hazmat suits to protect themselves from the virulent bio weapons they were carrying and it’s not like smallpox was unknown to native Americans at this point.

History has been recorded about the millions of indigenous that died from the colonial populations before the USA was born.

Did you know which tribal rules and culture helped create the declaration of independence? I read about it some time ago but having a hard time finding the document now. Great example of the history being muddled.

 

[Bthoth]

No idea what your point is or its relevance to this topic.

How history is often ruined and this is a religious forum. That is my point of the post.

 

[Augustus]

History has been recorded about the millions of indigenous that died from the colonial populations before the USA was born.

Did you know which tribal rules and culture helped create the declaration of independence? I read about it some time ago but having a hard time finding the document now. Great example of the history being muddled.

Millions have always died from natural spread of disease no matter their ethnicity.

But the “death blankets” is a myth and smallpox had already infected the local Native American population in the months prior to this event, presumably as part of the same wave of infection that impacted the colonials.

The independence of the US was very bad for the native Americans, even accepting the harms of European colonialism.

Often with settler colonialism, the imperial power was actually a restraining factor on the settlers who were far more violent and rapacious.

It’s also very dubious whether the Iroquois influenced the US constitution, although it is debated.

 

[Augustus]

How history is often ruined and this is a religious forum. That is my point of the post.

Still no idea

 

[Bthoth]

But the “death blankets” is a myth and smallpox had already infected the local Native American population in the months prior to this event, presumably as part of the same wave of infection that impacted the colonials.

Myth? The blankets were given for the purpose of killing innocent locals. Does the historical rendition impose a guilt on your conscious?

It’s also very dubious whether the Iroquois influenced the US constitution, although it is debated.

The creeks also made a huge impact on T. Jefferson but apparently you had no idea about the history of the time periods of the US creation

 

[Augustus]

Myth? The blankets were given for the purpose of killing innocent locals. Does the historical rendition impose a guilt on your conscious?

Why would it?

In 500 years of conflict between multiple violent groups, few of whom were innocent, and who collectively committed thousands of atrocities, a single event which probably resulted in zero casualties is not particularly noteworthy beyond anachronistic links to modern biological warfare which makes it sound impressive.

The creeks also made a huge impact on T. Jefferson but apparently you had no idea about the history of the time periods of the US creation

Jefferson was an odious hypocrite, but was far hire influenced by European thought than Native American.

 

[Bthoth]

Why would it?

Like below you reduce the event on 2 ways; "few of whom were innocent" and "probably resulted in zero casualties is not particularly noteworthy "
Because you never knew the history or damage as an atrocity.

In 500 years of conflict between multiple violent groups, few of whom were innocent, and who collectively committed thousands of atrocities, a single event which probably resulted in zero casualties is not particularly noteworthy beyond anachronistic links to modern biological warfare which makes it sound impressive.

Still an atrocity. Millions died from the acts.

Jefferson was an odious hypocrite,

So you dont like the forefather?

but was far hire influenced by European thought than Native American.

After living here for quite some time, he had the integrity to learn about the equal nature and capabilities of the locals.

I love that he was constantly evolving with knowledge even if the comprehension was coming from what many called savages.

 

[The Hammer]

Who committed atrocities to Native Americans? Let us start putting the blame where it belongs, on Europe. It wasn’t this country.

List of Indian massacres in North America - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I counted 156 battles and massacres in North America between the US and Natives, starting in 1778 all the way through 1915.

It wasn't just Europeans.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Does the historical rendition impose a guilt on your conscious?

Unless one condones the actions of their ancestors, for what reason would one have a guilty conscience? Do you feel one should judge oneself for their ancestors' actions 8 generations later?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Unless one condones the actions of their ancestors, for what reason would one have a guilty conscience? Do you feel one should judge oneself for their ancestors' actions 8 generations later?

I don't know about eight, but I still blame myself for ancient sibling fights a hundred generations later!

 

[Augustus]

Like below you reduce the event on 2 ways; "few of whom were innocent" and "probably resulted in zero casualties is not particularly noteworthy "
Because you never knew the history or damage as an atrocity.

You conflate the numbers of people who died from the natural spread of diseases like Smallpox and Cholera over 400+ years across 2 continents with "biological warfare" based on a single localised event that may have not had any impact at all, and if it did have an impact it was likely relatively insignificant as it and occurred in a population already dealing with an epidemic smallpox outbreak that resulted from multiple sources including Native raids on colonials.


What the documents do show, however, is that smallpox struck hard among the Indians around Fort Pitt in the spring and summer of 1763. On April 14, 1764, a man named Gershom Hicks arrived at the British post, having escaped from the Shawnee and Delaware Indians who had held him captive since May 1763. In a deposition taken the day of his arrival, Hicks reported "that the Small pox has been very general & raging amongst the Indians since last spring and that 30 or 40 Mingoes, as many Delawares and some Shawneese Died all of the Small pox since that time, that it still continues amongst them." Five months later, in September 1764, the epidemic continued to wreak havoc among the Shawnees. "ye poor Rascals are Dieing very fast with T small pox," reported Col. Andrew Lewis from Virginia's Blue Ridge Mountains; "they can make but Lettle Resistance and when Routed must parish in great Numbers by T Disordere." Accounts of the plague continued to circulate as late as 1765, when Killibuck, a prominent Delaware leader, told the Indian agent William Johnson of the destruction it had wrought. "The Shawanes lost in three Months time 149 Men besides Women & Children by Sickness above a year ago," Killibuck reported; "also many of them dyed last Summer of the Small Pox, as did Several of their Nation." As the historian Michael McConnell has pointed out, it is possible and perhaps likely that the epidemic stemmed from multiple sources of infection. John M'Cullough, a fifteen-year-old captive among the Indians, reported that the disease took hold after an attack on some settlers sick with the smallpox along central Pennsylvania's Juniata River.


Native Americans also used "biological warfare", as have many armies throughout history. Outside of a modern context, I'm not sure how helpful the term is due to its anachronistic connotations.

Still an atrocity. Millions died from the acts.

Millions died from natural spreading of illnesses.

If someone deliberately coughed in an elevator during the middle of Covid pandemic it might have had some impact on a few people, it might have no effect, but it wouldn't make any significant difference to the overall pandemic.

To attribute millions of deaths to the act because millions died of covid would be nonsensical.

Of course there are plenty of things that can be criticised about the actions of Europeans, Americans and Native Americans during half a millennium, "blankets of death" would be nowhere near the top of any list of atrocities or harmful actions or policies.

So you dont like the forefather?

Some of the founding fathers are more admirable than others. TJ is not one of the more admirable ones.

After living here for quite some time, he had the integrity to learn about the equal nature and capabilities of the locals.

I love that he was constantly evolving with knowledge even if the comprehension was coming from what many called savages.

What often happens is that people wish to correct past historical inaccuracies regarding certain cultures, such as the portrayal of Native Americans as mindless savages. This is good, and there are certainly many myths and lies to correct in this regard. All cultures have their own virtues, and people of all backgrounds can learn from these.

In the process of correction though, there is often a tendency to overcorrect, so their achievements become overstated and lionised, their negatives minimised and histories can become hagiographies.

The pendulum then tends to swing back the other way as we get revisionism or the revisionism. And so it goes on.

No doubt many Europeans and Americans did learn all kinds of things from Native Americans. It is possible that this related to aspects of governance, although the evidence is very circumstantial and a bit tendentious.

IMO it seems to be more wishful thinking based on ambiguous and pretty thin evidence, although others disagree.

The American "freedom" schtick is very much a product of 17th C English myths of Anglo-Saxon liberty (as opposed to continental "Popish despotism"). Combined wit enlightenment philosophy and classical Graeco-Roman history (or purported history).

They basically had all of the ingredients there.