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Hominid fossils, and Islam

Any designer has a signature through their handywork, artists, house designers etc. Our genetic code is Gods signature. That's probably why we share so many genes with all living creatures. Genes did not evolve themselves in graduations towards the human species. It's the code of life. It's the carbon based life form blueprint. Scientists are surprised that we share so many genes. This was not expected.

This is simply because all life forms share a common ancestor, therefore we are still going to have similar genetic code regardless of time.



I don't know about plants evolving into other species, but I'm convinced humans did not evolve but were created intelligent and fully human. No doubt our ancestors adapted to different environments. I still have not given up belief that humans were created 6,000 years ago. However if they were around longer, I still believe they were created human, in one hit. Yes, Neanderthal had a bigger brain and I think they could have been the biblical nephilim. That would fit. However, I have no faith in radiometric dating.

The Nephilim (Hebrew: נפלים, Nefilīm) were a race that came to dominate the antediluvian (pre-flood) world.
So the flood took place supposedly sometime around this period
"The first five books of the Old Testament (known as the Pentateuch or Torah) was written by Moses during the forty years that the children of Israel wandered in the wilderness (1450 - 1410 B.C.)."
However then Neanderthals only existed from 600,000 to 30,000 years ago
Though this is "preflood" this is WAY before god created man, the nephilim were the sons and daughters of the adam and eve. Your timeline does NOT fit.
Also Nephilim comes from the term Giants and Titans. However Neanderthals, although more robust than homosapiens stood 6 inches shorter than us.


Also Homo sapiens have been around from 200,000 years ago until present. So they werent created 6000 years ago, like you naively suggest.





Now this educated researcher accepts her results, obviously. She has no problem accepting that this homo florensensis hobbit specimen is from way back and evolved separate to humans. It proves to me that scientists have no idea what they are doing apart from trying their darndest to make it all fit and provide evidence for TOE. All these fossils are just apes, chimps, orangatangs etc. Humans did not evolve from apes. As easy as one would think it is to tell a chimp skull from a human skull they cannot. This hobbit is no where near human if 2 million years old. Obviously this researcher does not see any reason to believe her research is flawed. In her mind, with her knowledge she has no trouble accepting her results. So how morphologically different must a species just above sapiens be from something 2 millions years old.

If scientists were trying to prove creation they would much more easily accomplish it with the genetic evidence they have today. All this dilemma is because they are trying to prove something that did not happen. Hence all the confusion and debate. If they can't tell a species above homo sapiens from a creature 2 millions years old they can't tell us anything at all.

Homo florensis where found on an island of Flores in indonesia. Now basic genetics.
If a species is in a continously stable environment it will have no need to evolve as no other new genes will have a genetic intraspecific advantage over another.


Homo florensis: and Homo Sapien:
images


I think a Chimp could tell them two apart. (no pun intended)


AUSTRALIAN research has thrown a question mark over long-held beliefs of human evolution thanks to never-before-tried technology on a set of "hobbit bones'' found in Indonesia.
Researchers based in Canberra and Wollongong set to work on a "hobbit'' skeleton found on the Indonesian island of Flores in 2004, using new cladistic analysis.
It compares the forms of organisms to determine ancestral relationships - the first time it was used on this set of homo floresiensis bones.
The results were surprising.
Anthropologist Debbie Argue concluded the bones diverged from the Homo sapiens evolutionary line nearly two million years ago, meaning that it did not share an immediate ancestor with modern humans.

Note the fact that the technology is new and WILL have bugs and be unreliable.
Also Birds are related to reptiles. The time-scale doesnt change the fact that they share an immediate ancestor with reptiles.

Furthermore just because it diverged before the evolution of neanderthals doesnt mean it could potentially evolve into something relatively similar to homo sapiens.

Lastly this evidence is flawed as Homoflorensis only existed in the period of 94,000 to 13,000 years ago.


Also you get branches from the Homo sapien descendary lines which still end up being homo sapiens.


Just because a species splits from a species doesnt mean it doesnt have the genetic potential to become the same thing.
If the Homo florensis survived long enough, it probably would have become a homo sapien.
 
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skydivephil

Active Member
To me, i'm not a big fan of biology as i told you before, but when a topic interest me, i usually go to a great extent in order to understand it and cover it from all angles. I would usually spend countless hours reading online about a certain topic, or go to the library "when i was still at the University" and collect a dozen of books to read about.

That's why any opinion i might voice here now would be based on speculations and insufficient information, and it would be really an insult to the science. That's why i promise that i'll look into this topic and read about it then try to come back to you later on--i'm afraid it won't be soon--with a more informed opinion.

Thank you so much for your effort and i'll make sure to read every single post you and others have posted here including the links, videos, etc.


Peace. :)

Thansk you for promising to take the time to look into evoluiton.
I would reccomend this book that is often over looked, its short, but very informative and take a different track to most other books on the subject:
The Relics of Eden: The Powerful Evidence of Evolution in Human DNA: Amazon.co.uk: Daniel J. Fairbanks: Books
 

newhope101

Active Member
The original poster is entitled to hear both sides of the debate. Many members post all these charts and pictures etc as evidence. They appear convincing. One might think these guys must know what they are on about. However I say that scientsists do not know what they are looking at. So far it's all been based on our evolution from chimpanzees. The fossil records show how a chimp slowly morphed into a human according to ToE. Trouble is latest research cites we did not evolve from chimps at all. Now it seems we may have evolved from orangutangs. There are many primates with rounded skull caps like the purple faced langur, squirrel monkey, vervet, chacma baboon juvenile, colobus monkey, mona monkey, woolly monkey. By rounded, I mean they do not all display the thick eyebrow ridge and some skull caps appear more rounded, kinda more similar to human than a chimps skull cap. Who knows if some of these grew bigger or adapted somehow. Scientists, I think, fixate on chimps because they are the least similar skull to humans and their brains are smaller than gorillas. Therefore it makes the range of so called evidence appear more convincing. The only point I wish to make is that ToE science uses it's own faulty hypothesis to validate itself because fossil evidence is not evidence at all. To many it appears that scientists do not know one primate skull from another and effectively cannot tell what they are looking at.

My queries re neanderthal was not meant to propose a timeline. I actually think that all the Homo fossil evidence is more than likely a bunch of apes/non human primates. Apparently apes were much more diverse long ago. Gene percentages mean nothing. I don't think neanderthal is human anymore anyway. We share 70% of our genes with a mouse, 96-99.4% with a chimp (depends on research)That doesn't prove a mouse is 70% human. Much to the dismay of scientists genetic similarity percentages mean nothing at all.

One should learn about ToE but always look for the latest research to validate. Note these credentialed scientists quoted below.

Our ToE friends will agree that humans are not related to any other living species alive today. Any old fossil find that isn't obviously a known primate species gets thrown into the human evolution bundle as evidence. They tried to show how a chimp morphed. Now they may need to do it all again with an orangutang line. I'll say it again. The only thing science can agree on in relation to our distanct ancestry is that "we must have come from primates"...and they will never work it out because it never happened. It's like trying to fit square pegs into round holes...never a good fit.

Below is an excert that highlights my point...a series of "complicated and convoluted" scenarios were invented ...there is an absence of ape fossils more than 500,000 years old. I'd say it's because apes adapted and changed a little so scientists grab every ape fossil and try to show how it's a step of 'human' evolution. Really they have no idea. Fossil evidence is not evidence at all. ..and THAT is the POINT!

ScienceDaily (June 18, 2009) — New evidence underscores the theory of human origin that suggests humans most likely share a common ancestor with orangutans, according to research from the University of Pittsburgh and the Buffalo Museum of Science. Reporting in the June 18 edition of the Journal of Biogeography, the researchers reject as "problematic" the popular suggestion, based on DNA analysis, that humans are most closely related to chimpanzees, which they maintain is not supported by fossil evidence.
Schwartz and Grehan compare this theory of ancestral distribution with one designed to accommodate a presumed human-chimpanzee relationship. They write that in the absence of African ape fossils more than 500,000 years old, a series of "complicated and convoluted" scenarios were invented to suggest that African apes had descended from earlier apes that migrated from Africa to Europe. According to these scenarios, European apes then diverged into apes that moved on to Asia and into apes that returned to Africa to later become humans and modern apes. Schwartz and Grehan challenge these theories as incompatible with the morphological and biogeographic evidence.
"Palaeoanthropology is based solely on morphology, and there is no scientific justification to favor DNA over morphological data. Yet the human-chimp relationship, generated by molecular data, has been accepted without any scrutiny. Grehan and Schwartz are not just suggesting an orangutan–human relationship—they're reaffirming an established scientific practice of questioning data."
 
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painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
The original poster is entitled to hear both sides of the debate.
The origional poster was interested in Muslim opinions... not your raving "debate".

You clearly missed the point of this thread, to the point of rendering it meaningless. :rolleyes:

wa:do
 

newhope101

Active Member
Well to all of Islam that wish to believe in creation don't give up just yet! My info shows evidence is not what it seems and I do not see creationists as silly.

It appears Islam has no problem with TOE, but some individuals may have some concerns. Just wanted to show another opinion.

Thanks for clearing that up.
 
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Amill

Apikoros
The original poster is entitled to hear both sides of the debate. Many members post all these charts and pictures etc as evidence. They appear convincing. One might think these guys must know what they are on about. However I say that scientsists do not know what they are looking at. So far it's all been based on our evolution from chimpanzees. The fossil records show how a chimp slowly morphed into a human according to ToE. Trouble is latest research cites we did not evolve from chimps at all. Now it seems we may have evolved from orangutangs. There are many primates with rounded skull caps like the purple faced langur, squirrel monkey, vervet, chacma baboon juvenile, colobus monkey, mona monkey, woolly monkey. By rounded, I mean they do not all display the thick eyebrow ridge and some skull caps appear more rounded, kinda more similar to human than a chimps skull cap. Who knows if some of these grew bigger or adapted somehow. Scientists, I think, fixate on chimps because they are the least similar skull to humans and their brains are smaller than gorillas. Therefore it makes the range of so called evidence appear more convincing. The only point I wish to make is that ToE science uses it's own faulty hypothesis to validate itself because fossil evidence is not evidence at all. To many it appears that scientists do not know one primate skull from another and effectively cannot tell what they are looking at.

wtf.:sarcastic

Please watch some videos or read some books discussing evolution and the evidence for it. I don't know of any scientists saying humans are the result of chimpanzees morphing. You make it seem as if scientists pick up some random skull they've found and just label it an ancestral species to humans. Please provide evidence that scientists or evolutionary biologists behave the way you describe. It really sounds like you're making crap up or are believing things you read on random websites.

[youtube]KnJX68ELbAY[/youtube]
I found this series interesting and helpful.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Well to all of Islam that wish to believe in creation don't give up just yet! My info shows evidence is not what it seems and I do not see creationists as silly.

It appears Islam has no problem with TOE, but some individuals may have some concerns. Just wanted to show another opinion.

Thanks for clearing that up.
Uh huh...
Naturally you don't see creationists as "silly"... you are one.

I don't think creationists are silly either... but I think some people who try to debate it are. :cool:

wa:do
 
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