Homophobia

[rocala]

I have never been anti-gay, My mother was very tolerant of peoples sexuality and I was raised accordingly. Beyond a dislike of discrimination and a strong sense of justice I had never thought much about gay issues. That changed this morning. @Shadow Wolf as part of another post wrote,

"The pride isn't in the sexuality itself, it's standing up to a society that wants to hate us, discriminate against us, repress us and throw us back in the closet."

I recalled my mother comforting a tearful neighbor. The woman's brother had for most of his short life veered between his drug addiction and alcoholism. While under the influence of drink/drugs he would sometimes behave in ways that got him beaten, often savagely, requiring medical help. In the end it killed him.

His problem was that he had never been able to handle his father rejecting him. His father hated gays. It was as simple as that.

So yes, people who strive to end such situations have every reason to be proud.

 

[Pawpatrol]

Depends on how they strive to end it.

 

[Argentbear]

Depends on how they strive to end it.

care to elaborate?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Depends on how they strive to end it.

What a truly worthless, if not ugly, response.

 

[Betho_br]

The question could be refined and expressed in erudite language as: "Which sacred scripture addresses sexual relations between women?

 

[bobhikes]

I have never been anti-gay, My mother was very tolerant of peoples sexuality and I was raised accordingly. Beyond a dislike of discrimination and a strong sense of justice I had never thought much about gay issues. That changed this morning. @Shadow Wolf as part of another post wrote,
"The pride isn't in the sexuality itself, it's standing up to a society that wants to hate us, discriminate against us, repress us and throw us back in the closet.

I recalled my mother comforting a tearful neighbor. The woman's brother had for most of his short life veered between his drug addiction and alcoholism. While under the influence of drink/drugs he would sometimes behave in ways that got him beaten, often savagely, requiring medical help. In the end it killed him.

His problem was that he had never been able to handle his father rejecting him. His father hated gays. It was as simple as that.

So yes, people who strive to end such situations have every reason to be proud.

As I see it the problem is not just Homophobia but Prudism. Sexual activity, and speech is highly regulated in our society. Regulating it to private moments seems to be consistent across the world. There are actuals regulations in every country about public displays of affection. This seems to be natural to us. Homosexuals are at a disadvantage because of their minority. If they do not stand out or announce their sexuality except in private, they may never find a partner. So, they end up putting the majority of people in an uncomfortable state. Outright discrimination of them needs to be addressed but they also need to understand that they are in a minority and will have to work harder than the majority to find the same happiness no matter the state of discrimination. Understanding by both sides seems to be more necessary than just being proud.

 

[Betho_br]

Prudism

Is it possible to separate prudism from religion? In a secular state are these ideologies necessary?

 

[Betho_br]

Depends on how they strive to end it.

I am amazed! Religious sexual laws, if I am not mistaken, have always focused on men. They have only regulated the conduct of men, as they interpreted that an effeminate man was harmful in the event of war.

 

[Stevicus]

I have never been anti-gay, My mother was very tolerant of peoples sexuality and I was raised accordingly. Beyond a dislike of discrimination and a strong sense of justice I had never thought much about gay issues. That changed this morning. @Shadow Wolf as part of another post wrote,
"The pride isn't in the sexuality itself, it's standing up to a society that wants to hate us, discriminate against us, repress us and throw us back in the closet.

I recalled my mother comforting a tearful neighbor. The woman's brother had for most of his short life veered between his drug addiction and alcoholism. While under the influence of drink/drugs he would sometimes behave in ways that got him beaten, often savagely, requiring medical help. In the end it killed him.

His problem was that he had never been able to handle his father rejecting him. His father hated gays. It was as simple as that.

So yes, people who strive to end such situations have every reason to be proud.

I recall a common theme when I was growing up (although it seems to have subsided in more recent times) of people (mainly boys) accusing other boys/men of being gay - even if they weren't. All they had to do was look different or come across as slightly weaker, and that would trigger some visceral reaction in some people.

 

[blü 2]

The question could be refined and expressed in erudite language as: "Which sacred scripture addresses sexual relations between women?

The closest it gets, I think, is Paul in Romans 1:26–27 ─

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural (φυσικός) relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.​

(However, although that's from my favorite RSV, I have somewhat less confidence than usual that the translation exactly renders the TR.)

 

[Betho_br]

I recall a common theme when I was growing up (although it seems to have subsided in more recent times) of people (mainly boys) accusing other boys/men of being gay - even if they weren't. All they had to do was look different or come across as slightly weaker, and that would trigger some visceral reaction in some people.

Can this be seen with ethnocentric eyes?

 

[Stevicus]

Can this be seen with ethnocentric eyes?

Possibly. Bigotry can come in many forms which can sometimes overlap.

 

[rocala]

I recall a common theme when I was growing up (although it seems to have subsided in more recent times) of people (mainly boys) accusing other boys/men of being gay - even if they weren't. All they had to do was look different or come across as slightly weaker, and that would trigger some visceral reaction in some people.

Oh yes, that sort of thing was very common in my youth. Other, probably wiser people, used to say, "look at who is pointing the finger and that is where you will find the real gay guy."

 

[bobhikes]

Is it possible to separate prudism from religion? In a secular state are these ideologies necessary?

Although, prudism is religious by definition public sexual avoidance and regulation is not. We just don't have a defined secular word. You will probably never be able to have open sex in public, and yes, I know this is extreme. Society being what it is there will always be a comfort level to public displays of affection and regulations against going too far with or without religion. No matter ethnicity or sexual orientation a person will always have a discomfort level with public displays of affection. Most will have a rather high standard.

 

[Betho_br]

Oh yes, that sort of thing was very common in my youth. Other, probably wiser people, used to say, "look at who is pointing the finger and that is where you will find the real gay guy."

This reminded me of the Sacred Battalion of Thebes...

 

[Revoltingest]

Some good news in my state (but not yet in many others)...

Michigan outlaws the 'gay and trans panic defense' in criminal trials

The law prohibits using a victim’s sexuality or gender identity as justification for criminal action.

www.nbcnews.com

Imagine....
Getting away with harming or even killing someone
because of fear of homosexuality. That's hideous.

Ref...

Gay panic defense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Possibly. Bigotry can come in many forms which can sometimes overlap.

Homophobia, and all other forms of bigotry, are taught. By parents, by religions, by members of the community, by the mores of the social environment in which one develops. The only way to end all such bigotry is education -- learning and understanding that differences are natural, that religious texts, written millenia ago by people with no real understanding of human nature at its most foundational levels, and therefore -- as many Christian and Reform Jewish theologians have discovered -- can be safely ignored without offending the foundations of faith.

The reason that homosexuality, along with multiculturalism, is so well accepted today is because a lot of people have learned and accepted these simple truths. In 1996, 27% of people thought same-sex marriage should be accepted, against 68% who did not. Today, those numbers are almost exactly reversed -- 69% for and 29% against. That change has occurred over fewer than 30 years.

The same for other races and cultures. How many Americans would have accepted a family doctor with a Punjabi accent in 1980? Yet, there are lots of them today. And corporate leaders, professors and professionals in every field.

Cultures, despite what people think, can shift. How many people today really want to return to as time when tormenting gays, people of colour, people with different shaped eyes or other religions was deemed pretty much okay?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How many people today really want to return to as time when tormenting gays, people of colour, people with different shaped eyes or other religions was deemed pretty much okay?

We have a name for them. They want to bring back those times and make America that ugly, horrible, terribly prejudiced society again where only straight white guys who worship Jehovah have a decent chance at getting ahead. Only one thing they hate is off limits because a Supreme Court Justice would get his own marriage ended if they got their way on that.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

We have a name for them. They want to bring back those times and make America that ugly, horrible, terribly prejudiced society again where only straight white guys who worship Jehovah have a decent chance at getting ahead. Only one thing they hate is off limits because a Supreme Court Justice would get his own marriage ended if they got their way on that.

Gotcha. Loving in Virginia was once monochromatic, eh?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Gotcha. Loving in Virginia was once monochromatic, eh?

Amd only certain ones. Californian Conservatives don't care about tribes mixing, but in Indiana I got to learn what hatred looks like, a hatred that will weaponize the children of miscegenation in thr name of protecting those kids (they think they can't fit in anywhere amd will be rejected by white and black people) just as fast as they'll say horribly mean things that will ruin the day of even the most sunshine and rainbows optimist.