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Homosexuality and Evolution: God's Will and Human Belief

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
What other science can it be when they claim God and the supernatural are not science? The atheist scientists claim creation science is religion when it is a more open science than atheist science. Atheist science is a religion, too. They claim life happened from nothing. Universes can happen anywhere and at any time. Life just pops into existence when it doesn't. Creation science is more of a science because it does not systematically exclude the possibility from which the evidence is given.

Then by your standard all of science is "atheist science". No real science out there invokes a god. Newton didn't in his scientific work. Neither did Galileo, Keppler, Copernicus, etc. and so on. They use natural scientific principles to explain what we observe in nature. And scientists do not merely claim that life arose naturally, not "from nothing" they can support that claim. You don't even understand what you are arguing against. They don't claim universes can happen anywhere and at any time. They merely explain the history of our universe.

There's an old saying. Figures may not lie, but liars do figure. Obviously you do not know statistics very well as correlation does not tell us everything about the data. Again, if it was a fact, then I could use it, as well, but I cannot.

Yes, but if a person lies by using data the lies are almost always discoverable. The lies of "creation scientists" are exposed by the data. You have not been able to find any lies by actual scientists, all you can do is to disagree with their work.



I'm saying homosexuality is not based on a gay gene or anything to do with genes. Genes do not control behavior. Homosexuality is most likely caused by environmental factors without and within the body. It's more a psychological condition or an innate choice. We aren't like animals the way you put it. Animals do other things besides engage in homosexual sex such as eating their mate, eating their young, eating their own vomit and other ghastly behavior. Does that mean humans do the same? Of course not.


But you are not an expert at all and do not seem to even understand the scientific method. That makes your claims worthless. If one looks into this it looks like there are quite a few factors and genetics appears to have a role. I would support my claims on this, but since you will wave away papers that you do not understand there is not much of a point. Instead we should go over the basics of science first. We need to work on your understanding of the scientific method and evidence. Then you won't make such obvious errors as using claims on the order of "atheist science".
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
How many times have I pointed out to you that there is not just one "Lucy?" Over 300 Australopithecus afarensis specimens have been found to date. I've pointed that out to you several times, sometimes including links.

So I have to wonder why you're still repeating the same old false claims about her. This is why I think you're a poe.

Since you brought up links, we still do not have the all important missing link or missing links. We had the Piltdown Man, which fooled an entire generation of people, but it was a forgery. There is one Lucy, but it is the remains of more than one ape found by Donald Johanson. Yet, evos allude to it as one Lucy. Moreover, I pointed out that it was a colossal failure during its museum tour and was put in mothballs forever in Ethiopia where it was found. Would such an important find be treated as such by knowledgeable people if evolution was real? I don't think so. Also, I said that there was no reason for Lucy to "evolve" into bipedalism. Even today, people would rather drive to the local store than walk. We don't see many apes today going bipedal to look over fences and other higher objects such as savannahs. They still act like they did when Lucy was around ;). We do not have any ape-men that do that sort of thing either.

What the Creation Museum claims is that one will get different accounts of what Lucy looked like. What did Lucy look like to you? Do you have a rough picture in mind? I got one of a hairy ape with ape-like features that walked on all fours. It had a small cranium. It looks like and walks like an ape and climbs trees and swings through them.

Finally, we get the pseudoscientific racist evolution of man chart and it depicts a white man at the far right. Hitler couldn't have had it drawn any better. Charles Durwood, I mean Charles Darwin, was pretty much wrong about everything wasn't he?

How many of his books get sold today versus the Bible? The Bible still has 100 million copies per year given away or sold. People still read the Bible, but fewer and fewer read Darwin. Can't blame them as he wasn't a great writer besides being wrong about almost everything.

I mean aren't you looking at the poe on a daily basis when you look in the mirror?
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Since you brought up links, we still do not have the all important missing link or missing links. We had the Piltdown Man, which fooled an entire generation of people, but it was a forgery. There is one Lucy, but it is the remains of more than one ape found by Donald Johanson. Yet, evos allude to it as one Lucy. Moreover, I pointed out that it was a colossal failure during its museum tour and was put in mothballs forever in Ethiopia where it was found. Would such an important find be treated as such by knowledgeable people if it was real? I don't think so. Also, I said that there was no reason for Lucy to "evolve" into bipedalism. Even today, people would rather drive to the local store than walk. We don't see many apes today going bipedal to look over fences and other higher objects such as savannahs. They still act like they did when Lucy was around ;). We do not have any ape-men that do that sort of thing either. Only apes and humans.

What The Creation Museum claims is that one will get different accounts of what Lucy looked like. What did Lucy look like to you? Do you have a rough picture in mind? I got one of a hairy ape with ape-like features that walked on all fours. It had a small cranium.

Finally, we get the pseudoscientific racist evolution of man chart and it depicts a white man at the far right. Hitler couldn't have had it drawn any better. Charles Durwood, I mean Charles Darwin was pretty much wrong about everything wasn't he?

How many of his books get sold today versus the Bible? The Bible still has 100 million copies per year given away or sold. People still read the Bible, but fewer and fewer read Darwin. Can't blame them as he wasn't a great writer besides being wrong about almost everything.

Why do you keep saying that by your standards Christianity is false?


And you do realize that the "Creation Museum" is part of a dishonest organization that requires their workers to swear not to use the scientific method, don't you?
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
If that was the case you could support your claims. You have not been able to do that. That indicates that is not the case. And no, we have been over this. You have no "creation scientists". Most scientists that are also Christians accept the theory of evolution. The few nuts that work at creationist sites have actually signed a pledge not to use the scientific method. By doing that they are no longer qualified as scientists in the work that they do.



I am ready to discuss the subject when you are. I have even asked you if you would discuss it, but you ran away. I will not merely lecture into thin air on this subject, it does no good. We need to discuss the nature of evidence. If you want to we need to discuss in a series of posts on just that topic. Are you still afraid?



No, Conservapedia is a site written by liars and idiots for the uneducated. I gave you an example of their idiocy. Wikipedia has no bias. You have not been able to demonstrate any. Repeating lies about the site does you no good. You need to support your claims. There are other sites that I can use that give the same example, but when you openly break the Ninth Commandment in your claims about them then I am going to use it until you support your claims.

So once again, are you still afraid or not? I have yet to see a creationist that does not run away from the concept of evidence.

Again, I have provided the evidence while your evidence has been one of forgeries, fakes and incredulous hypothesis. I pointed out that an adult animal or plant had to have been created because the egg, the baby or the seed is incredibly complex. Same with the universe. The earth is the one place humans can live. It's incredibly difficult to survive on another planet. One can't just create any of the aforementioned. Life doesn't just happen nor a universe pop out due to quantum particles. That's a media myth, urban legend or unscientific or fake science like evolution.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Again, I have provided the evidence while your evidence has been one of forgeries, fakes and incredulous hypothesis. I pointed out that an adult animal or plant had to have been created because the egg, the baby or the seed is incredibly complex. Same with the universe. The earth is the one place humans can live. It's incredibly difficult to survive on another planet. One can't just create any of the aforementioned. Life doesn't just happen nor a universe pop out due to quantum particles. That's a media myth, urban legend or unscientific or fake science like evolution.


No, you have only mentioned Piltdown man that everyone knows was a fraud against the theory of evolution. By your standard Christians like Jim Jones and Harold Camping disprove your religion. You are not being consistent.

You have made only terribly ignorant claims that you cannot support. And by attempting to move the debate to abiogenesis you concede the evolution debate. Let's try to focus on the theory of evolution first. As the saying goes, you cannot fly before you can crawl.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
No, you have only mentioned Piltdown man that everyone knows was a fraud against the theory of evolution. By your standard Christians like Jim Jones and Harold Camping disprove your religion. You are not being consistent.

You have made only terribly ignorant claims that you cannot support. And by attempting to move the debate to abiogenesis you concede the evolution debate. Let's try to focus on the theory of evolution first. As the saying goes, you cannot fly before you can crawl.

It's hard for you to stay on topic isn't it?

Lucy was a fraud by Donald Johanson because it wasn't the remains of a single ape. Skeptic Thinker claims it's a whole group of ape-men. No one has answered my question of what Lucy looked like as the Creation Museum has pointed out. All of it is speculation in order to fit the hypothesis that we came from a common ancestor. We had to have macroevolution (Darwin) when no such evidence exists for it. The ToE is false and atheist scientists added to it up to explain how we came to life today. It's science based on faith. It's the atheist religion.

And you are wrong again to say Jim Jones was a Christian ha ha.

That's enough already as we are strayed from the topic.

You could not rebut how the cause of homosexuality is not based on genetics. No behavior is based on genetics. It's more the environmental factors and a complex interaction with genes. How many genes in the human genome? I doubt you can come up with the correct answer.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It's hard for you to stay on topic isn't it?

Nope, not at all. You appear to be projecting your sins on others.

Lucy was a fraud by Donald Johanson because it wasn't the remains of a single ape. Skeptic Thinker claims it's a whole group of ape-men. No one has answered my question of what Lucy looked like as the Creation Museum has pointed out. All of it is speculation in order to fit the hypothesis that we came from a common ancestor. We had to have macroevolution (Darwin) when no such evidence exists for it. The ToE is false and atheist scientists added to it up to explain how we came to life today. It's science based on faith. It's the atheist religion.
Wrong again, You can't support that with valid sites. You are listening to liars and repeating their lies.

And you are wrong again to say Jim Jones was a Christian ha ha.

Christians always say that the worst of their tribe are not Christians.

That's enough already as we are strayed from the topic.

No let's look at some of the terrible Christians throughout history. There is of course David Koresh, countless Christians that have predicted the end of the world ever since the crucifixion. Just about every televangelist in the world that scams on poor people.

You could not rebut how the cause of homosexuality is not based on genetics. No behavior is based on genetics. It's more the environmental factors and a complex interaction with genes. How many genes in the human genome? I doubt you can come up with the correct answer.

Wrong again, I mentioned at least one specific study. I did not link it because no one asked me too. And you are about as far from being an authority on the human genome as is possible.

But here you go, there could easily be a genetic cause:

http://www.latimes.com/science/scie...osexuality-nature-nurture-20151007-story.html

And an epigenetic cause:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/10/homosexuality-may-be-caused-chemical-modifications-dna

Homosexuality is a complex behavior so there is no reason that there is no more than one cause.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
To wrap my portion of contributions to this topic, the Bible continues to label homosexuality as a sin. The line is clearly drawn despite gay marriage being legal now. It means if you're not a homo, then avoid the temptation. Kevin Spacey couldn't avoid it. I would think he's gay now. If you're one and don't like it, i.e. depressed or engage in substance abuse, then one can alter the behavior.

I can only think this means the behavior itself leads to some kind of consequences since the research shows that environmental factors within and without the human body affects our genetic system. It's a complex system which research is being done called epigenetics.

epigenetics | Definition, Inheritance, & Disease

What does the Bible say about homosexuality? | CARM.org

Is homosexuality dangerous to society? | CARM.org
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
But here you go, there could easily be a genetic cause:

Scientists find DNA differences between gay men and their straight twin brothers

And an epigenetic cause:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/10/homosexuality-may-be-caused-chemical-modifications-dna

Homosexuality is a complex behavior so there is no reason that there is no more than one cause.

Not an genetic cause, but an epigenetic one called epigentic inheritance. If you had read the articles which you linked, then you would know that it discusses my contribution to this KEY topic. It means creation science once again was right. I stated that there is no gay gene (Xq28) that some atheists and liberals desperately want to believe.

"On Thursday, UCLA molecular biologist Tuck C. Ngun reported that in studying the genetic material of 47 pairs of identical male twins, he has identified "epigenetic marks" in nine areas of the human genome that are strongly linked to male homosexuality.

In individuals, said Ngun, the presence of these distinct molecular marks can predict homosexuality with an accuracy of close to 70%.

...

Over a person's lifetime, myriad environmental factors -- nutrition, poverty, a mother's love, education, exposure to toxic chemicals -- all help shape the person he will become.

Researchers working in the young science of epigenetics acknowledge they are unsure just how an individual's epigenome is formed. But they increasingly suspect it is forged, in part, by the stresses and demands of external influences. A set of chemical marks that lies between the genes, the epigenome changes the function of genetic material, turning the human body's roughly 20,000 protein-coding genes on or off in response to the needs of the moment.

While genes rarely change over a lifetime, the epigenome is constantly changing.

Geneticists suggest that together, the human genome and its epigenome reflect the interaction of nature and nurture -- both our fixed inheritance and our bodies' flexible responses to the world -- in making us who we are."

From your second article:

"Researchers thought they were hot on the trail of “gay genes” in 1993, when a team led by geneticist Dean Hamer of the National Cancer Institute reported in Science that one or more genes for homosexuality had to reside on Xq28, a large region on the X chromosome. The discovery generated worldwide headlines, but some teams were unable to replicate the findings and the actual genes have not been found—not even by a team that vindicated Hamer's identification of Xq28 in a sample size 10 times larger than his last year. Twin studies suggested, moreover, that gene sequences can't be the full explanation. For example, the identical twin of a gay man, despite having the same genome, only has a 20% to 50% chance of being gay himself.

That's why some have suggested that epigenetics—instead of or in addition to traditional genetics—might be involved. During development, chromosomes are subject to chemical changes that don't affect the nucleotide sequence but can turn genes on or off; the best known example is methylation, in which a methyl group is attached to specific DNA regions. Such “epi-marks” can remain in place for a lifetime, but most are erased when eggs and sperm are produced, so that a fetus starts with a blank slate. Recent studies, however, have shown that some marks are passed on to the next generation.

In a 2012 paper, Rice and his colleagues suggested that such unerased epi-marks might lead to homosexuality when they are passed on from father to daughter or from mother to son. Specifically, they argued that inherited marks that influence a fetus's sensitivity to testosterone in the womb might “masculinize” the brains of girls and “feminize” those of boys, leading to same-sex attraction.

Such ideas inspired Tuck Ngun, a postdoc in Vilain's lab, to study the methylation patterns at 140,000 regions in the DNA of 37 pairs of male identical twins who were discordant—meaning that one was gay and the other straight—and 10 pairs who were both gay. After several rounds of analysis—with the help of a specially developed machine-learning algorithm—the team identified five regions in the genome where the methylation pattern appears very closely linked to sexual orientation. One gene is important for nerve conduction, whereas another has been implicated in immune functions.

To test how important the five regions are, the team divided the discordant twin pairs into two groups. They looked at the associations between specific epi-marks and sexual orientation in one group, then tested how well those results could predict sexual orientation in the second group. They were able to reach almost 70% accuracy, although the presentation makes clear that—in contrast to what a provocative ASHG press release about the study suggested—this predictive ability applies only to the study sample and not to the wider population.

Just why identical twins sometimes end up with different methylation patterns isn't clear. If Rice's hypothesis is right, their mothers' epi-marks might have been erased in one son, but not the other; or perhaps neither inherited any marks but one of them picked them up in the womb. In an earlier review, Ngun and Vilain cited evidence that methylation may be determined by subtle differences in the environment each fetus experiences during gestation, such as their exact locations within the womb and how much of the maternal blood supply each receives.

Such subtle influences are “where the action is,” says psychologist J. Michael Bailey of Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois. “Discordant [identical] twins comprise the best way to study this.” But he and Rice caution that the study must be replicated with more twins to be fully credible. Sergey Gavrilets, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, and a co-author of Rice's epigenetics model, adds that the study would also be “more convincing” if the team could link the regions showing epigenetic differences to testosterone sensitivity in the womb.

Vilain's team stresses that the findings shouldn't be used to produce tests for homosexuality or a misguided “cure.” Bailey says he's not worried about such misuse. “We will not have the potential to manipulate sexual orientation anytime soon,” he says. And in any case, he adds, “we should not restrict research on the origins of sexual orientation on the basis of hypothetical or real implications."

Gays are not born this way, but walk this way.

University of California Genetic Study Confirms Gays Not Born That Way
For men, new research suggests that clues to sexual orientation may lie not just in the genes, but in the spaces between the DNA, where molecular marks instruct genes when to turn on and off and how strongly to express themselves.
University of California Genetic Study Confirms Gays Not Born That Way
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Not an genetic cause, but an epigenetic one called epigentic inheritance. If you had read the articles which you linked, then you would know that it discusses my contribution to this KEY topic. It means creation science once again was right. I stated that there is no gay gene (Xq28) that some atheists and liberals desperately want to believe.

"On Thursday, UCLA molecular biologist Tuck C. Ngun reported that in studying the genetic material of 47 pairs of identical male twins, he has identified "epigenetic marks" in nine areas of the human genome that are strongly linked to male homosexuality.

In individuals, said Ngun, the presence of these distinct molecular marks can predict homosexuality with an accuracy of close to 70%.
...

I said that was an epigenetic cause, or did you miss that? That is still a genetic cause. It is merely one that is not permanently passed on. One can be born that way which went contrary to your claims So you are of course wrong and creation is wrong again By the way, looking for a "gay gene" has nothing to do with whether one is liberal or conservative, atheist or theist so you are wrong in that claim too again.

Over a person's lifetime, myriad environmental factors -- nutrition, poverty, a mother's love, education, exposure to toxic chemicals -- all help shape the person he will become.

Researchers working in the young science of epigenetics acknowledge they are unsure just how an individual's epigenome is formed. But they increasingly suspect it is forged, in part, by the stresses and demands of external influences. A set of chemical marks that lies between the genes, the epigenome changes the function of genetic material, turning the human body's roughly 20,000 protein-coding genes on or off in response to the needs of the moment.

While genes rarely change over a lifetime, the epigenome is constantly changing.

Geneticists suggest that together, the human genome and its epigenome reflect the interaction of nature and nurture -- both our fixed inheritance and our bodies' flexible responses to the world -- in making us who we are."

That's true, but please note I already said that there can be multiple causes to being gay. A genetic cause would be only one of them

From your second article:

"Researchers thought they were hot on the trail of “gay genes” in 1993, when a team led by geneticist Dean Hamer of the National Cancer Institute reported in Science that one or more genes for homosexuality had to reside on Xq28, a large region on the X chromosome. The discovery generated worldwide headlines, but some teams were unable to replicate the findings and the actual genes have not been found—not even by a team that vindicated Hamer's identification of Xq28 in a sample size 10 times larger than his last year. Twin studies suggested, moreover, that gene sequences can't be the full explanation. For example, the identical twin of a gay man, despite having the same genome, only has a 20% to 50% chance of being gay himself.

Or the gene may simply increase the odds of being gay It is support for a gay gene. No one claimed that the gene was 100% the cause of being gay.

That's why some have suggested that epigenetics—instead of or in addition to traditional genetics—might be involved. During development, chromosomes are subject to chemical changes that don't affect the nucleotide sequence but can turn genes on or off; the best known example is methylation, in which a methyl group is attached to specific DNA regions. Such “epi-marks” can remain in place for a lifetime, but most are erased when eggs and sperm are produced, so that a fetus starts with a blank slate. Recent studies, however, have shown that some marks are passed on to the next generation.

In a 2012 paper, Rice and his colleagues suggested that such unerased epi-marks might lead to homosexuality when they are passed on from father to daughter or from mother to son. Specifically, they argued that inherited marks that influence a fetus's sensitivity to testosterone in the womb might “masculinize” the brains of girls and “feminize” those of boys, leading to same-sex attraction.

Such ideas inspired Tuck Ngun, a postdoc in Vilain's lab, to study the methylation patterns at 140,000 regions in the DNA of 37 pairs of male identical twins who were discordant—meaning that one was gay and the other straight—and 10 pairs who were both gay. After several rounds of analysis—with the help of a specially developed machine-learning algorithm—the team identified five regions in the genome where the methylation pattern appears very closely linked to sexual orientation. One gene is important for nerve conduction, whereas another has been implicated in immune functions.

To test how important the five regions are, the team divided the discordant twin pairs into two groups. They looked at the associations between specific epi-marks and sexual orientation in one group, then tested how well those results could predict sexual orientation in the second group. They were able to reach almost 70% accuracy, although the presentation makes clear that—in contrast to what a provocative ASHG press release about the study suggested—this predictive ability applies only to the study sample and not to the wider population.

Just why identical twins sometimes end up with different methylation patterns isn't clear. If Rice's hypothesis is right, their mothers' epi-marks might have been erased in one son, but not the other; or perhaps neither inherited any marks but one of them picked them up in the womb. In an earlier review, Ngun and Vilain cited evidence that methylation may be determined by subtle differences in the environment each fetus experiences during gestation, such as their exact locations within the womb and how much of the maternal blood supply each receives.

Such subtle influences are “where the action is,” says psychologist J. Michael Bailey of Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois. “Discordant [identical] twins comprise the best way to study this.” But he and Rice caution that the study must be replicated with more twins to be fully credible. Sergey Gavrilets, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, and a co-author of Rice's epigenetics model, adds that the study would also be “more convincing” if the team could link the regions showing epigenetic differences to testosterone sensitivity in the womb.

Vilain's team stresses that the findings shouldn't be used to produce tests for homosexuality or a misguided “cure.” Bailey says he's not worried about such misuse. “We will not have the potential to manipulate sexual orientation anytime soon,” he says. And in any case, he adds, “we should not restrict research on the origins of sexual orientation on the basis of hypothetical or real implications."

Gays are not born this way, but walk this way.

University of California Genetic Study Confirms Gays Not Born That Way
For men, new research suggests that clues to sexual orientation may lie not just in the genes, but in the spaces between the DNA, where molecular marks instruct genes when to turn on and off and how strongly to express themselves.
University of California Genetic Study Confirms Gays Not Born That Way


Yet both of the articles that you misunderstood both found evidence that they were born that way.

And when you use an article that openly declares that it is a biased source it can be ignored. In fact your second article supports the claim that the cause might be epigenetic. Your own article shoots themselves in the foot by doing so. Biased sources are rarely written by people that are very bright.

Like it or not, if your God is real, he made gay people too.

By the way like it or not, even if a god exists man either evolved or that god lies. To see this you would need to quit using lying sources when it comes to evolution. Can you do that?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Since you brought up links, we still do not have the all important missing link or missing links. We had the Piltdown Man, which fooled an entire generation of people, but it was a forgery. There is one Lucy, but it is the remains of more than one ape found by Donald Johanson. Yet, evos allude to it as one Lucy. Moreover, I pointed out that it was a colossal failure during its museum tour and was put in mothballs forever in Ethiopia where it was found. Would such an important find be treated as such by knowledgeable people if evolution was real? I don't think so.

I know you like to play the Gish Gallop, but let's stick to Lucy. That's the part I repeatedly have taken issue with over and over in your posts.

There is one specimen specifically referred to as "Lucy." Lucy is a skeleton of a hominid from the species referred to as Australopithecus afarensis. There are over 300 other Australopithecus afarensis specimens currently in existence. Lucy is but one of them. This has been pointed out to you several times, and yet you continue to claim that there is one Lucy made up of a collection of the bones of more than one ape. Even if that were the case, there are over 300 other specimens of the very same species that are currently known to exist. Surely you don't assert that all of those skeletons are made up of a collection of random bones and that we’re all being hoodwinked by shady scientists.

I don't believe for a second that you actually think that Lucy's alleged failure to garner public attention at museums has any bearing whatsoever on the veracity of the theory of evolution. Just for your information, Lucy currently resides at the National Museum of Ethiopia, and you can see a plaster cast of her on display at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History. You don’t have to look through mothballs to find her.

Also, I said that there was no reason for Lucy to "evolve" into bipedalism.

Even today, people would rather drive to the local store than walk. We don't see many apes today going bipedal to look over fences and other higher objects such as savannahs. They still act like they did when Lucy was around ;). We do not have any ape-men that do that sort of thing either.

Surely you are aware that automobiles were not in existence in Lucy’s day. The first automobile was not invented until some time during the late 19th century.

We see apes “going bipedal” fairly often. Chimps, bonobos, gibbons and baboons exhibit forms of bipedalism. So do you and I.

What the Creation Museum claims is that one will get different accounts of what Lucy looked like. What did Lucy look like to you? Do you have a rough picture in mind? I got one of a hairy ape with ape-like features that walked on all fours. It had a small cranium. It looks like and walks like an ape and climbs trees and swings through them.

The Creation Museum is based on preconceived beliefs taken from an old book that was written by people who didn’t know anything close to what we now know about the world we live in. It is based on wishful thinking, not science.


Finally, we get the pseudoscientific racist evolution of man chart and it depicts a white man at the far right. Hitler couldn't have had it drawn any better. Charles Durwood, I mean Charles Darwin, was pretty much wrong about everything wasn't he?

What?

How many of his books get sold today versus the Bible? The Bible still has 100 million copies per year given away or sold. People still read the Bible, but fewer and fewer read Darwin. Can't blame them as he wasn't a great writer besides being wrong about almost everything.
Which of Darwin’s books have you read?

People wait in line overnight to get copies of the latest Harry Potter books. Millions of people watch Keeping up with the Kardashians. So what? The number of people that currently read Darwin’s writings has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the veracity of the theory of evolution. Why would it?

I mean aren't you looking at the poe on a daily basis when you look in the mirror?

If I hold your posts up to the mirror, yeah.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
That's true, but please note I already said that there can be multiple causes to being gay. A genetic cause would be only one of them.

Wrong again. There is no genetic cause despite what people believe. Epigenetic inheritance was the best so far if the 70% rate held up. It follows what I have been referring to as environmental factors within and without the body. However, this view is not politically correct even though the researcher himself is gay and found something that goes against his original beliefs. Thus, the controversy.

Study: No, There's No Evidence Of a 'Gay Gene'
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
I know you like to play the Gish Gallop, but let's stick to Lucy. That's the part I repeatedly have taken issue with over and over in your posts.

There is one specimen specifically referred to as "Lucy." Lucy is a skeleton of a hominid from the species referred to as Australopithecus afarensis. There are over 300 other Australopithecus afarensis specimens currently in existence. Lucy is but one of them. This has been pointed out to you several times, and yet you continue to claim that there is one Lucy made up of a collection of the bones of more than one ape. Even if that were the case, there are over 300 other specimens of the very same species that are currently known to exist. Surely you don't assert that all of those skeletons are made up of a collection of random bones and that we’re all being hoodwinked by shady scientists.

I don't believe for a second that you actually think that Lucy's alleged failure to garner public attention at museums has any bearing whatsoever on the veracity of the theory of evolution. Just for your information, Lucy currently resides at the National Museum of Ethiopia, and you can see a plaster cast of her on display at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History. You don’t have to look through mothballs to find her.



Surely you are aware that automobiles were not in existence in Lucy’s day. The first automobile was not invented until some time during the late 19th century.

We see apes “going bipedal” fairly often. Chimps, bonobos, gibbons and baboons exhibit forms of bipedalism. So do you and I.



The Creation Museum is based on preconceived beliefs taken from an old book that was written by people who didn’t know anything close to what we now know about the world we live in. It is based on wishful thinking, not science.




What?

Which of Darwin’s books have you read?

People wait in line overnight to get copies of the latest Harry Potter books. Millions of people watch Keeping up with the Kardashians. So what? The number of people that currently read Darwin’s writings has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the veracity of the theory of evolution. Why would it?



If I hold your posts up to the mirror, yeah.

I'm going to ignore this post as it has nothing to do with the topic ha ha.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I'm going to ignore this post as it has nothing to do with the topic ha ha.

Maybe don't make off topic comments then. Or stop with the poe routine. You’re the one that brought up Lucy. You’re always the one that brings up Lucy.

FYI: I'm going to copy and paste the same post every time I see you making inaccurate statements about Lucy. And then I’ll watch you laugh it off like you’ve done again here. Then I’ll see you repost it all over again a few months later. Ho hum.


ha ha :rolleyes:
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Wrong again. There is no genetic cause despite what people believe. Epigenetic inheritance was the best so far if the 70% rate held up. It follows what I have been referring to as environmental factors within and without the body. However, this view is not politically correct even though the researcher himself is gay and found something that goes against his original beliefs. Thus, the controversy.

Study: No, There's No Evidence Of a 'Gay Gene'

Another biased and bogus site that tries to deny people are born gay with evidence that tells us that people are born gay. Nice try. You do not seem to understand that epigenetics is a genetic cause. Do you understand what epigenetics is? A change brought on by epigenetics is merely not usually, though it appears it can be in some cases, passed on to offspring.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Maybe don't make off topic comments then. Or stop with the poe routine. You’re the one that brought up Lucy. You’re always the one that brings up Lucy.

FYI: I'm going to copy and paste the same post every time I see you making inaccurate statements about Lucy. And then I’ll watch you laugh it off like you’ve done again here. Then I’ll see you repost it all over again a few months later. Ho hum.


ha ha :rolleyes:
This might help:


That YouTuber makes excellent videos. Not only that the claims he makes are supported in the information area with links to articles just below the video itself on YouTube.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
*****Moderation Post******

Please be reminded of Rule 3:

3. Trolling and Bullying
Where Rule 1 covers personal attacks, Rule 3 governs other behaviors and content that can generally be described as being a jerk. Unacceptable behaviors and content include:

1) Content (whether words or images) that most people would find needlessly offensive, especially when such content is posted just to get a rise out of somebody and/or is not part of a reasoned argument.

2) Defamation, slander, or misrepresentation of a member's beliefs/arguments, or that of a particular group, culture, or religion. This includes altering the words of another member to change their meaning when using the quote feature.

3) Antagonism, bullying, or harassment - including but not limited to personal attacks, slander, and misrepresentation - of a member across multiple content areas of the forums. Repeatedly targeting or harassing members of particular groups will also be considered bullying.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm part Neanderthal. I hope I'm more of that than a homo sapiens, but who knows?

Atheists are usually wrong, so I'll stick to what I know. I already explained the racism to say we came from an ape as a common ancestor. You called it a fact that we are apes, but that's not true. There is not much evidence of a connection. Also, homo sapiens refers to humans and not apes.

In terms of evolution, the burden of proof is on you, but you have no proof nor much evidence. In science, we do not provide proofs. That's mathematics. There are no proofs in science, technically speaking.

I have no idea where you're going with the dog comparison, so I'll just let it go since it has nothing to do with homo sapiens.


Again, I do not accept wikipedia which follows evolution and the people who write it will delete any reference to creation science or debunking evolution.

Let's see what conservapedia says.

An ape (Hominoidea superfamily) is any of a group of anthropoid primates characterized by long arms, a broad chest, and the absence of a tail. In informal conversation, ape can refer to a large and clumsy person.

I think that's sufficient.

Amazing...every word of what you just said was wrong.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
On homosexuality in an overall sense, the Bible is wrong. As a Christian I say this. As God is my witness I say this.

Science operates best when it admits it doesn't know what truths are next. Great discoveries will soon follow.

Genetics, epigenetics, nurture, culture, personal choice...each has its own story, it's own evolution. A web of causality so complex that only God can predict the outcome. It is within this web that God has placed us. Our sin is ever to choose within this unknowable context as if we know. And yet we must choose.

Science in it's theory and often in it's practice exhibits the fear of God by it's self-abnegation. Always working, always testing.

Concern yourself not with those who are confused about science for they will try and confuse you while they reap the benefits of a science of God's creation that they deny. Leave them to saw away at the branch upon which they sit.

What is a book written by the hand of human's in the midst of the whole of God's creation?
 
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