Homosexuality and Evolution

[Corthos]

Personally I have no idea. I lean towards the side of it being a choice, though, due to my beliefs (he didn't make us hardwired to oppose him, he made us hardwired to have the ability to oppose him). The other side is definitely plausible though.

Hmmm... Just curious, but have you talked to/known very many people who are homo/bi/trans sexual? It's been my experience in talking with people who are that they don't have much choice in the matter. =/

 

[Corthos]

I'm incredibly not knowledgable about genetics, so forgive me if what I'm about to say is completely false

Traits that do not help the survival of the species will dissipate given enough time. The pancreas, wisdom teeth, and third eyelid do not help the survival of the species, so why are they still present?

They haven't been given enough time.

I understand that homosexuality can benefit species in certain cases, but given enough time won't it dissipate as well like the above mentioned body parts? This also allows for the understanding that homosexuality is a combo of different genes, because given enough time couldn't they all disappear?

Not always, it seems.... For instance, nipples in males (which seem to be prevalent in most mammals, even primitive ones). Or even tail(bone)s (sometimes we even grow tails, which is an interesting throwback mutation). =)

Question for those who know - is homosexuality only observed in warm blooded creatures? What about reptiles, amphibians, insects, etc etc?..

 

[Jumi]

Personally I have no idea. I lean towards the side of it being a choice, though, due to my beliefs (he didn't make us hardwired to oppose him, he made us hardwired to have the ability to oppose him). The other side is definitely plausible though.

Do you remember when you chose to be attracted to the opposite gender? Neither do I and there's no choice I could make to be attracted to the same gender. If you feel like you have a choice on the matter, congrats! You might be a bisexual instead of one of us heterosexuals.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm incredibly not knowledgable about genetics, so forgive me if what I'm about to say is completely false

Traits that do not help the survival of the species will dissipate given enough time. The pancreas, wisdom teeth, and third eyelid do not help the survival of the species, so why are they still present?

They haven't been given enough time.

I understand that homosexuality can benefit species in certain cases, but given enough time won't it dissipate as well like the above mentioned body parts? This also allows for the understanding that homosexuality is a combo of different genes, because given enough time couldn't they all disappear?

Actually they will only dissipate if they are detrimental. Traits that are benign or indifferent will just sort of stay.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Even assuming homosexuality was a single gene rather than a culmination of many genetic factors, genes can be recessive or dormant, carried in wide swaths of population where they are not expressed. So long as said gene isn't hindering a large selection of population it resides in there's no particular reason to think it would be 'weeded out' so to speak.
Certain ailments which are passed down genetically exist with much more devastating consequence and have been a part of human history for a very long time.

 

[Flippypie]

Hmmm... Just curious, but have you talked to/known very many people who are homo/bi/trans sexual? It's been my experience in talking with people who are that they don't have much choice in the matter. =/

Do you remember when you chose to be attracted to the opposite gender? Neither do I and there's no choice I could make to be attracted to the same gender. If you feel like you have a choice on the matter, congrats! You might be a bisexual instead of one of us heterosexuals.

First of all, Jumi, that felt very passive agressive. I'm not trying to insult anyone and i specifically mentioned that I wasn't quite sure either way. I'm really trying to keep this thread from devolving from an debate into an argument

Secondly, I for the most part agree with what Saint Frankenstein said, because It made since.

Thirdly, I live in Oregon, which is one of the most liberal states (and in general homo/bi/trans sexuals are liberal) so i have massive exposure to LGBTQ people every day

Fourthly, and lastly, I just want to say that i'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I created this thread for the purpose of furthering my own understanding, and mine only, by hearing what others had to say. Please don't get offended by me saying what I think.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Do you remember when you chose to be attracted to the opposite gender? Neither do I and there's no choice I could make to be attracted to the same gender. If you feel like you have a choice on the matter, congrats! You might be a bisexual instead of one of us heterosexuals.

Was a path that wasn't shown , never looked at boys that way , honest ) . Is hard to explain why man is sometimes given only this path for sexuality , these guys appear more feminine or gentle by nature , I've had gay men try put the lips on me at festivals just didn't feel right.
The is no religious explanation of the possibilities of being born with what is in natural orders as described by religious text , maybe Adam and Eve had bum sex also in front of God in debauched way , or did it slip up there accidentally .
Who are we to judge lol some women demand it or they find another boyfriend is a terrible world man terrible hahaa
Religion cannot explain the phonema they a miricle in there own right lol

 

[ADigitalArtist]

First of all, Jumi, that felt very passive agressive. I'm not trying to insult anyone and i specifically mentioned that I wasn't quite sure either way. I'm really trying to keep this thread from devolving from an debate into an argument

Secondly, I for the most part agree with what Saint Frankenstein said, because It made since.

Thirdly, I live in Oregon, which is one of the most liberal states (and in general homo/bi/trans sexuals are liberal) so i have massive exposure to LGBTQ people every day

Fourthly, and lastly, I just want to say that i'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I created this thread for the purpose of furthering my own understanding, and mine only, by hearing what others had to say. Please don't get offended by me saying what I think.

Hello fellow Oregonian.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

And once becomes common knowledge that man made nuclear radiation will ultimately add a virus to the DNA codes making evolution a dead science .
Nuclear is for life is no going back 35 billion year half life , building up slowly previous testing and nuclear disasters an lil leaks here n there .

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Anticipating the disappearance of homosexuality over time might as well be anticipating the disappearance of heterosexuality. Heterosexuality is also genetic. Why the anticipation for the disappearance of homosexuality?

 

[Corthos]

First of all, Jumi, that felt very passive agressive. I'm not trying to insult anyone and i specifically mentioned that I wasn't quite sure either way. I'm really trying to keep this thread from devolving from an debate into an argument

Secondly, I for the most part agree with what Saint Frankenstein said, because It made since.

Thirdly, I live in Oregon, which is one of the most liberal states (and in general homo/bi/trans sexuals are liberal) so i have massive exposure to LGBTQ people every day

Fourthly, and lastly, I just want to say that i'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I created this thread for the purpose of furthering my own understanding, and mine only, by hearing what others had to say. Please don't get offended by me saying what I think.

Heh, I know what you mean, as I'm from around the Seattle area myself. I'd be lying if I said that living where I do hasn't shaped my world views in left leaning ways (socially). =)

I can respect that you are openly evaluating and introspectively thinking about things; I wish more people would do this.

I guess what I was truly wondering, however, is if you knew/talked with someone who you personally knew and cared about who was LGBT; a family member, or a trusted friend. It's easier to understand something (or a perspective) when you have a respected individual you can associate and discuss something with in an honest and open way (no agendas or political bends, just life experiences and stark truth).

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Bisexuality is what most reported cases of animal homosexual relations are. Monkey species have usually have homosexual relations to induce pleasure, or because there aren't any females around. There's a ton of other cases as well. In fact, in these species homosexual relations are (almost always) a social norm only. When they really get down to business they work to preserve the species by producing offspring by mating with the opposite gender.

Adam an Eve was like the most debauched couple you could ever meet was no telly in those days, when Adam wasn't looking eve found a snake , when eve wasn't looking was lots of holes for Adam , some say a cored apple ,dewd he was doing chimpanzee , even a parrot he try . And you judge Gay men hahaa,
Is down to morals no matter who you are

 

[HonestJoe]

Hi all! I'm really sorry if this is in the wrong place, because i'm new to this website.

Welcome. This seems to be the right place.

My point is, if you agree with evolution and believe that homosexuality is genetically inherited, explain to me how they could work in tandem.

Well none of this is simple and none of it is entirely clear.

Sexuality isn’t a simple binary switch or really a singular measure. Who we’re attracted to and the wider instincts to procreate, especially in the context of modern society, is much more complicated than that. There are clearly genetic elements to sexuality but there will also be other factors, especially in how we respond to our feelings, instinctively and consciously. It’s also perfectly possible that there is more than one genetic factor involved, especially between male and female homosexuality, some possibly related to gender differences themselves.

Genetics and inheritance aren’t simple either. Genes work in complex ways, with different combinations have different outcomes and genes being effectively switched on or off in different individuals. What we pass on to our children isn’t simple a (half) copy of ourselves, which is how children can often turn out with quite different characteristics to either parents and quite different to their siblings.

With all that in mind, it is perfectly possible for homosexuality (or at least factors making it more likely) to survive through the generations, just like lots of other genetic characteristics that aren’t directly beneficial to the survival or procreation of the species. These traits could be linked to different, positive traits, where one set of genes carries both. They could also be passed on in an “inactive state” through some generations. There could also be separate sets of genes which individually carry beneficial traits but together bring about the homosexual traits.

This remains one of the many mysteries surrounding genetics and actually isn’t that special – it just happens to be one that is plagued by some fairly strongly held political and emotional opinions. As far as your point goes though, there is no reason why homosexuality couldn’t have a genetic component that continues indefinitely thought the evolutionary process.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Heterosexuality is also genetic.

Since when?

 

[johnhanks]

Of course, homosexuality doesn't affect the survivability of the human species. What I'm wondering is how genes which cause someone to be gay could ever last, because homosexuality usually means that those genes won't be passed on.

Bear in mind that any genes or gene combinations that might incline males to homosexuality are likely to be shared by their sisters; and if in a female those genes were to enhance fecundity, the genes would be passed on and negative effect on male reproductive capacity negated.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Homosexuality being genetic and it being a choice aren't the only two options. Science doesn't know why people are attracted to whatever/whoever they're attracted to. You can't choose who you're attracted to, but I highly doubt that homosexuality is genetic. Genes probably play some sort of part, but sexuality is way more complicated and nebulous than that.

I agree, I also think socialisation plays a part.
I think more people are bisexual than they think, but they don't take their attraction to the same sex as seriously because of heteronormativity.

 

[Jumi]

First of all, Jumi, that felt very passive agressive. I'm not trying to insult anyone and i specifically mentioned that I wasn't quite sure either way. I'm really trying to keep this thread from devolving from an debate into an argument

Can you tell me then, what age did you choose to be attracted to girls instead of boys? I'm being honest here when I say I wasn't presented a clear choice on my attractions or even a way to steer that attraction.

Secondly, I for the most part agree with what Saint Frankenstein said, because It made since.

He is knowledgeable on the topic for a reason. There's no doubt attraction is a complex thing, but I've never had any choice in my attractions. No amount of forcing yourself to choose other people to be attracted to or pushups made those go away.

Thirdly, I live in Oregon, which is one of the most liberal states (and in general homo/bi/trans sexuals are liberal) so i have massive exposure to LGBTQ people every day

Indeed, yours is not a dangerous idea where you live, but it is used to kill people elsewhere.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just because something is showing to have a genetic link doesn't necessarily mean its inherited. Lots of studies suggest there is something at the genetic level going on driving sexual attractions, but I've not read of any studies suggesting it is inherited.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think more people are bisexual than they think, but they don't take their attraction to the same sex as seriously because of heteronormativity.

If we didn't have such stigmas, I suspect the majority of people would have at least one sexual experience outside of their preference.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]